On New MLB Proposal, How it Relates to the Twins and a Potential Solution

[howeda7]

 

Players will not accept that.  They have drawn a line at full prorate.  So 87.5% will not get it done.  The players have made no counter to a reduce in pay.  The owners have countered with several different ways to pay about 33% of full season pay.  Except for full revenue split, which was also a non-starter for players. 

Players need to give too. 87.5% for 80 games is still 40% more than 100% for 50 games.

[howeda7]

 

Maybe you should counsel the players.  I think if the players came out and countered with exactly that, and the owners balked at it, then the owners would look terrible.  Right now, I think the players look terrible.  They want full pay for play, which make sense, but they are not willing to accept fact that this is not a normal situation.  Neither side has moved an inch for weeks, the owners have just dressed up the pay in different packages but the overall pay has been the same.  However, players have not budged either, making claims they want to give the fans more games, but really they just want more money.  If they were willing to do the over 100 games at a less than prorate, then their claim of giving fans more games hold water.  

Neither side is blameless. And every day that goes by burns another day that they could have had more of the public's attention than they've had in years. It's ridiculous. Once the NBA starts up in late July, they lose their window.

[howeda7]

 

Here's what I've been saying from the get go... Keep the first $500k completely whole (like it was a 162 game season). Fully prorated for $500k-$3M. Then 50% prorated above that.

Assuming an 81 game season (for easy math)...

Garver who was due to make $620k, would get all of the first $500k, then a prorated amount (half in this example) for the remaining $120k - So he would make $560k

Berrios who was due to make $4M would get all of the first $500k, fully prorated for the next $2.5M, then a 50% prorated share for the final $1M
$500k + $1.25M + $0.25M
So he makes $2M, which actually happens to be the same full prorated amount (happy accident by me)

Where the owners really start saving money is for the $10M+ guys.

Jake Odorizzi - $17.8
$500k + (2.5M/2) + ($14.8/4) = ~$5.5M

I don't know how this idea compares to the ideas being thrown around by the owner or players, but it seems overall more owner friendly financially, while still remaining player friendly for those making less that $4M annually.

If that went to a vote from the full union, you'd have to think it would pass.

It might pass, but if a handful of guys like Mike Trout and Gerrit Cole decide not to play, are you better off overall?

[yarnivek1972]

Players need to give too. 87.5% for 80 games is still 40% more than 100% for 50 games.

80 games isn’t realistic.

[Diesel]

I am going to go out on a limb and say that the Pohlads aren’t one of the owners wanting to cheapen salaries to players by this much. This is shown by their large donation in honor of George Floyd and their willingness to have a higher payroll this year, along with being one of the leaders in paying minor leaguers. Since the Twins had nearly a decade of mediocrity, I’m guessing the team is trying to bring in as many new fans as possible. I am hoping for a season soon.

[yarnivek1972]

Agreed. It will probably be 2022 before there is normalcy. But I expect the NFL/College football to have some fans in the stands this fall. I'd be surprised if MLB doesn't have at least 50% capacity by opening day next year. That's still a revenue hit, but they will know or have an idea about it going into the off-season and can adjust their payroll accordingly.

Some, maybe. In some states. I don’t envision crowds of more than 10,000 allowed in Minnesota until a vaccine is readily available. That might not even be by fall 2021.

[yarnivek1972]

The owners’ proposal isn’t likely to get bigger in terms of percentage of original contracts. Every day that passes is one fewer game that can be played. From the day an agreement is reached, it will be at least a full month before regular season games are played. One week to report. 3 days of workouts. 18 days of ST2 games. Today is June 12. So, the earliest regular games would start is July 15 if a deal is reached by Monday. That only leaves 77 days until the end of September. That is going to be the end of regular season games. Any later as far as MLB is concerned (based on what I have read) is non-negotiable. Especially if the playoffs get expanded to 16 or 22 teams. So, 75 games would require basically no off days and/or doubleheaders. And again, every day an agreement isn’t reached is a day closer to October 1.

 

My opinion hasn’t changed. I think the owners declare an impasse and attempt to implement the 50 game fully prorated schedule they say the players agreed to in March if there is no agreement by June 20. One week from tomorrow. The players will tell the owners where to go and there will be a strike.

 

Frankly, I think the impasse is less about this season and more of a power play going into the CBA renegotiation. There are now basically two types of players. The superstars making 8 figures per year and guys making 6 figures. Players in the middle are becoming an endangered species. The ones who are at that mid level are the arbitration level players. The “better than average veteran” class are being squeezed out of the league by minimum salary players.

 

This has been brewing for awhile IMO.

I’m going to amend this and say the 50 game season will be played but that the players will strike before the playoffs. Everyone knows that the players make bank during the season and teams make bank on the playoffs.

[Doctor Gast]

Thank you Tom for at least making an attempt to achieve a solution & it should be considered.

The players against the owners & owners against the players, fans takes sides. There is so much division in this world. Democrats against Republicans, Republicans against Democrats; Blacks, Whites, Hispanics & Asians against each other; Religions & sects are against each other.

People  are protesting about the George Floyd murder & rightly so. Everyone should have the freedom to be able to go out to protest peaceably even in this covid 19 chaos.  I also believe that everyone who`s healthy that wants to work, open his small business or go to a baseball game should have that same right if they want to take that risk . And if we are granted our freedom there would be no fight between owners & players. we could even be watching games by now. 

It`s not too late! Owners, players & fans need to come together & urge our gov. to set us free to be able to choose to go to baseball games ( MLB or minor) or not, of course under proper precautions.

We must 

Support love & resist hate

Support unity & resist division

Support Freedom & resist unnecessary restraint

Not only for ourselves but for our community      

[USAFChief]

This is similar to the last offer, in that the amount being reported is basically if the players max out. That number of more than 80% of the prorated salaries only happens *if* there's a postseason. The amount they're guaranteed on a per-game basis is somewhere even below that 80%, which isn't likely anything the players would consider in the first place.

 

We're going to end up with around a 50-game season. That's how this has been trending for months, the MLB really hasn't advanced anything or made any real changes to their multiple offers over the past couple months. Every single one equates to the players ending up earning somewhere around 30% of their original salaries.

what has the MLBPA offered?

 

Nothing. Zip. Zilch. Nada.

 

This is 100 percent the fault of the players. One. Hundred. Percent.

 

Screw them.

 

Start the season without them. They'll come crawling back soon enough.

[rdehring]

 

Thank you Tom for at least making an attempt to achieve a solution & it should be considered.

The players against the owners & owners against the players, fans takes sides. There is so much division in this world. Democrats against Republicans, Republicans against Democrats; Blacks, Whites, Hispanics & Asians against each other; Religions & sects are against each other.

People  are protesting about the George Floyd murder & rightly so. Everyone should have the freedom to be able to go out to protest peaceably even in this covid 19 chaos.  I also believe that everyone who`s healthy that wants to work, open his small business or go to a baseball game should have that same right if they want to take that risk . And if we are granted our freedom there would be no fight between owners & players. we could even be watching games by now. 

It`s not too late! Owners, players & fans need to come together & urge our gov. to set us free to be able to choose to go to baseball games ( MLB or minor) or not, of course under proper precautions.

We must 

Support love & resist hate

Support unity & resist division

Support Freedom & resist unnecessary restraint

Not only for ourselves but for our community      

Have you read the articles in the Strib by Reusse about Town Ball. Has been doing a series with the general thought being they are saying to heck with the restrictions and playing ball. I believe there were several hundred games this weekend around the State. Some are scrambling for places if their ballpark is city owned and the City says no. One went to their city council who said, "play ball." Great series by Patrick.

[Doctor Gast]

 

Have you read the articles in the Strib by Reusse about Town Ball. Has been doing a series with the general thought being they are saying to heck with the restrictions and playing ball. I believe there were several hundred games this weekend around the State. Some are scrambling for places if their ballpark is city owned and the City says no. One went to their city council who said, "play ball." Great series by Patrick.

No, I had not. I don`t have access to the STribune. But happy to hear it

Something I had forgot to write in prior post was to quote from "Field of Deams"

" If you build it they will come" but change it to "if you reopen they will come"

[bighat]

 

what has the MLBPA offered?

Nothing. Zip. Zilch. Nada.

This is 100 percent the fault of the players. One. Hundred. Percent.

Screw them.

Start the season without them. They'll come crawling back soon enough.

I'm with you buddy! The owners and league are taking a massive financial hit due to something (Covid-19) beyond their control.

 

The players have effectively said "That's not our problem. I want my money". They're behaving like debt collectors for the mob, no empathy no sympathy just GIVE ME MY MONEY. Blake Snell said as much, verbatim. And worst of all, ZERO consideration for the fans. Are the owners innocent angels who can do no wrong? Of course not! But should they really bear 100% of the financial hit for this pandemic?

 

The crazy part is that probably 75% of the players would be fine with the league's proposal, but the player's union and a few hard-asses in leadership are screwing this up for the rest of the guys. I am sure that guys like Polanco, Sano, and Kepler would be on the field right now warming up for a Sunday afternoon ballgame right now if they could.

 

At this point just have a week-long skills exhibition in Orlando and be done with it, because a 50-game season is an absolute slap in the face to anyone who follows the game.

 

 

[rdehring]

 

No, I had not. I don`t have access to the STribune. But happy to hear it

I think you can read a few articles online without paying. I know I do that with the Wisconsin State Journal, although I usually am cut off because have read too many.

[Doctor Gast]

 

I think you can read a few articles online without paying. I know I do that with the Wisconsin State Journal, although I usually am cut off because have read too many.

Thanks! You are right! I`ve already exhausted my trial

I googled that article & was able to read it. Hats off to Ruesse for writing it

[Doctor Gast]

If Manfred has guaranteed a season. Why not reopen preseason & get started w/ the process & let them iron out the out come- whether it`s 50 game w/ 100% prorated or a compromise. Let`s get going & stop dilly dally

[yarnivek1972]

what has the MLBPA offered?

 

Nothing. Zip. Zilch. Nada.

 

This is 100 percent the fault of the players. One. Hundred. Percent.

 

Screw them.

 

Start the season without them. They'll come crawling back soon enough.

I suspect MLB’s broadcast partners would seek to renegotiate their contracts if the league used scab players. People aren’t going to watch a bunch of nobodys play in an empty stadium on tv.

[OldTimeTwinkie]

If baseball gets started by the middle of July I probably will be interested but if they wait till August I like most fans could care less probably once football starts

[Vanimal46]

If baseball gets started by the middle of July I probably will be interested but if they wait till August I like most fans could care less probably once football starts

Agreed. That is the risk MLB took by waiting this long. We’ve run out of time to have anything more than the 50 game season now. When is Manfred going to make the announcement?

[Mike Sixel]

 

what has the MLBPA offered?

Nothing. Zip. Zilch. Nada.

This is 100 percent the fault of the players. One. Hundred. Percent.

Screw them.

Start the season without them. They'll come crawling back soon enough.

 

Of course, if you read the details on Fangraphs, the players have moved over the last month, and the owners have not.....

 

The owners just got 22 million a year more....will they give any of that to players? Of course not. 

[Mike Sixel]

 

I'm with you buddy! The owners and league are taking a massive financial hit due to something (Covid-19) beyond their control.

 

The players have effectively said "That's not our problem. I want my money". They're behaving like debt collectors for the mob, no empathy no sympathy just GIVE ME MY MONEY. Blake Snell said as much, verbatim. And worst of all, ZERO consideration for the fans. Are the owners innocent angels who can do no wrong? Of course not! But should they really bear 100% of the financial hit for this pandemic?

 

The crazy part is that probably 75% of the players would be fine with the league's proposal, but the player's union and a few hard-asses in leadership are screwing this up for the rest of the guys. I am sure that guys like Polanco, Sano, and Kepler would be on the field right now warming up for a Sunday afternoon ballgame right now if they could.

 

At this point just have a week-long skills exhibition in Orlando and be done with it, because a 50-game season is an absolute slap in the face to anyone who follows the game.

 

The owners just signed a deal for 22 million more per year per team, starting next year. Will they give that unanticipated income to the players? Of course not.

 

The risk of ownership is that sometimes you don't make as much money as you want.......

 

The Royals just sold for a billion dollars, does anyone not think MLB is incredibly profitable? 

[The Wise One]

A 48 game schedule is not going to be compressed. The more weeks they can get the more money the owners will make. 

[Vanimal46]

what has the MLBPA offered?

 

Nothing. Zip. Zilch. Nada.

 

This is 100 percent the fault of the players. One. Hundred. Percent.

 

Screw them.

 

Start the season without them. They'll come crawling back soon enough.

https://twitter.com/thomasboswellwp/status/1272511988795682816?s=21

[Tomj14]

 

Of course, if you read the details on Fangraphs, the players have moved over the last month, and the owners have not.....

 

The owners just got 22 million a year more....will they give any of that to players? Of course not. 

not meant to be argumentative, but shouldn't the owners give the players 11 million (half of the 22) and spread that over 26 (not sure the correct number, is it 40 or maybe all the of employees?) that would be between 423K and 280K. My guess is that they owners will in one way or another spread around 11 million out.

 

Off to another topic

What does a 50 or 60 game season look like? Is there a trade deadline? I don't really want to see a season this short, but I guess it could be good for the Twins, if they start out hot, they could make a run, if they start out cold, they have a ton of assets they could trade away.

Or they could "moneyball" it and regardless of how well they do they could try to get assets on the cheap from other teams.

Either way it all seems like a gimmick just to get something in.

 

 

[Mike Sixel]

Here you go....

 

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/players-ask-owners-how-much-baseball-they-want/

[The Wise One]

 

Of course, if you read the details on Fangraphs, the players have moved over the last month, and the owners have not.....

 

The owners just got 22 million a year more....will they give any of that to players? Of course not. 

470 million a year new contract minus 325 million old contract divided by 30 is not 22 unless you are a crooked accountant.

[Mike Sixel]

 

470 million a year new contract minus 325 million old contract divided by 30 is not 22 unless you are a crooked accountant.

The new contract is for 1 billion a year.....not 470 unless all the Tweets were incorrect......

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I don’t think the KC Royals — or Minnesota Twins — would fetch $1 Billion dollars today.

[The Wise One]

 

The new contract is for 1 billion a year.....not 470 unless all the Tweets were incorrect......

https://www.forbes.com/sites/maurybrown/2020/06/14/with-tbs-renewal-mlb-could-see-2b-annually-from-national-tv-contracts/#4bb7cc184411

 

[Vanimal46]

I don’t think the KC Royals — or Minnesota Twins — would fetch $1 Billion dollars today.

I’d take that bet. Supply and demand. How many professional sports teams are available for purchase? Maybe 1 every 4-5 years? $1 billion, easily.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I don’t think the KC Royals — or Minnesota Twins — would fetch $1 Billion dollars today.

 

I'll take that bet. People don't buy long term assets based on the next year or two........look at the stock market.....