Article: Do the Tigers really have that much more money than the Twins?

[Parker Hageman]

You can view the page at http://twinsdaily.com/content.php?1174-Do-the-Tigers-really-have-that-much-more-money-than-the-Twins

[rico7961]

The Pohlad's have been laughing all the way to the bank since the day the tax-payers of Hennepin county decided to fund a stadium for them. Rich mans welfare. I hope they choke on their money, because they aren't going to spend it on their baseball team.

[Seth Stohs]

I would say that when the Twins felt they had a team that could compete, two years ago, they went about $20 million over budget to bring in some final pieces. It makes no sense to spend that much to finish 3rd or 4th.

[Mr. Ed]

I would say that when the Twins felt they had a team that could compete, two years ago, they went about $20 million over budget to bring in some final pieces. It makes no sense to spend that much to finish 3rd or 4th.

 

Then do something about it, Twins.

 

Bin-diving and settling for the middle road will only keep them in the middle of the pack.

 

Commit to winning. OR make it a youth movement.

 

It's resulted in wasting the last couple years of some key players' careers. And it doesn't look like it's getting any better.

 

All talk from this org the past couple of years. Want to win, embarrassed by losing, blah,blah,blah.

[jm3319]

The Tiger's owner spends some of his own money out of pocket to improve the team and doesn't care about making money with the Tigers. The Twins owners base payroll off of revenue only. There's your difference in payroll and attitude toward winning.

[chagen]

Mr. Ed

 

Your right on either spend some money and get some pitching or commit to a youth movement your wasting time just having a few good players that are in there prime Willingham, Morneau etc.

[nick5253]

I would say that when the Twins felt they had a team that could compete, two years ago, they went about $20 million over budget to bring in some final pieces. It makes no sense to spend that much to finish 3rd or 4th.

 

Then do something about it, Twins.

 

Bin-diving and settling for the middle road will only keep them in the middle of the pack.

 

Commit to winning. OR make it a youth movement.

 

It's resulted in wasting the last couple years of some key players' careers. And it doesn't look like it's getting any better.

 

All talk from this org the past couple of years. Want to win, embarrassed by losing, blah,blah,blah.

 

You are absolutely right. I tend to agree with the Twins FO theory that they can't just buy a contender and that spending big on FA signings that handcuff you for 6 years is not a good way to build a consistent contender. But, given that strategy, they should have blown up this team in 2011. It was clear to anyone that this organization did not have anything close to impact talent in the upper minors, so it was going to take free agents filling those holes to be competitive. And if you're not spending to bring in big free agents, you're left with a crappy team. Given their recent track record in the draft (terrible), they should have been relying on veteran sell-off trades to stock the upper minors with talent. They have had valuable pieces the last couple of years but have let them leave for nothing. Now they're in a position where they need 4! starting pitchers to field a decent team and there is next to nothing still in the system.

[Winston Smith]

Ilitch and the Pohlads are both worth over 2.5 billion. Ilitch is 83 certainly can never spend all that money and wants to win while still alive.

 

Pohlads seem content to make more money so they can move up the Forbes list while winning is secondary. It's always been this way so no need to think it will change. If you are waiting for Jim Pohlad to tell Ryan spend what ever you need to make a team that can win a world series I think we'll wait a long time or maybe when he's in his 80's?

 

We have to remember that the Pohlads were going along with contraction. NO MORE TWINS. They have a lot less attachment to baseball and sports than Ilitch does.

[nicksaviking]

Have none of you been to Detroit? It's a thriving economic Eden of oppulance and home to the most affluent and spend-happy people in the midwest. Obviously there is more money to go around.

[CDog]

Ilitch and the Pohlads are both worth over 2.5 billion. Ilitch is 83 certainly can never spend all that money and wants to win while still alive.

 

Pohlads seem content to make more money so they can move up the Forbes list while winning is secondary. It's always been this way so no need to think it will change. If you are waiting for Jim Pohlad to tell Ryan spend what ever you need to make a team that can win a world series I think we'll wait a long time or maybe when he's in his 80's?

 

We have to remember that the Pohlads were going along with contraction. NO MORE TWINS. They have a lot less attachment to baseball and sports than Ilitch does.

 

Carl Pohlad owned the Twins when there was talk of contraction, and I'm fairly confident he has very little input on decisions anymore.

 

Also, if we're going to get all drooly over Ilitch, it should probably be pointed out that the Twins have finished ahead of the Tigers in 14 of the 21 seasons they've shared a division (all under Ilitch's ownership). The Twins have also won their shared division 6 times compared to 2 for the Tigers.

 

There's also that the Tigers didn't contend a single time for the first 14 years of Ilitch's ownership, and only got over 0.500 once in that span (his second season).

[ThePuck]

I would say that when the Twins felt they had a team that could compete, two years ago, they went about $20 million over budget to bring in some final pieces. It makes no sense to spend that much to finish 3rd or 4th.

 

But they didn't go for it...they gutted their middle IF and bullpen and signed Nishi. They actively downgraded their team. Normal raises, along with Mauer's contract kicking in is what happened...but they didn't go for it. What 'final pieces' did they bring in?

[John Bonnes]

I would say that when the Twins felt they had a team that could compete, two years ago, they went about $20 million over budget to bring in some final pieces. It makes no sense to spend that much to finish 3rd or 4th.

 

There is no evidence that the Twins went $20M over budget for payroll. At most, they went $8M (the cost of Pavano), and based on their own statements, it was probably closer to $4M. I don't personally have any problem with the Twins running their business like a business while Ilitch treats his like a fancy toy with super neat-o expensive options. But let's not pretend that the Twins ever did anything close to what Ilitch is doing now.

[ThePuck]

I would say that when the Twins felt they had a team that could compete, two years ago, they went about $20 million over budget to bring in some final pieces. It makes no sense to spend that much to finish 3rd or 4th.

 

There is no evidence that the Twins went $20M over budget for payroll. At most, they went $8M (the cost of Pavano), and based on their own statements, it was probably closer to $4M. I don't personally have any problem with the Twins running their business like a business while Ilitch treats his like a fancy toy with super neat-o expensive options. But let's not pretend that the Twins ever did anything close to what Ilitch is doing now.

 

There's also no evidence to suggest the raise in payroll happened to bring in final pieces missing from the 2010 team for a run...

[rickyriolo]

Just think Detroit is not even close to being done yet. The Tigers will make some more moves, they need a closer and more. Unfortunately , the Twins will sit on their hands while Detroit is going for the whole shebang

[Brandon]

The blow it up talk is total crap. we are what 3 starting pitchers and a few bench/ bullpen arm away. not an impossible task to overcome. We do need to be smart how we deploy resources. We can sign a mid rotation pitcher and trade for another then we are just 1 arm away.....bench. there are several low cost options available and same with bullpen. Get the starting pitching and everything will come into place. The biggest offensive question has already been resolved with Parmalee going to right field that increases the power output in our lineup. Bench could be strengthened with several players, Gomez, Andrew Jones, Inge, and others. bullpen.... we should have plenty of options there too.

[powrwrap]

The Pohlad's have been laughing all the way to the bank since the day the tax-payers of Hennepin county decided to fund a stadium for them. Rich mans welfare. I hope they choke on their money, because they aren't going to spend it on their baseball team.

 

So do you think the Pohlad's should simply write out a check from their personal (not Twins) bank account and pick up Zack Greinke and Josh Hamilton?

[powrwrap]

The Tiger's owner spends some of his own money out of pocket to improve the team and doesn't care about making money with the Tigers.

 

Gotta link? I'd like to look this up.

[powrwrap]

Ilitch and the Pohlads are both worth over 2.5 billion. Ilitch is 83 certainly can never spend all that money and wants to win while still alive.

 

So do you think Illitch simply wrote out a check from his personal (not Tigers) bank account and picked up Prince Fielder and Torii Hunter?

[Kwak]

It seems the Twins have three problems to fix: a) disparity of local broadcast TV revenues, PR problem of perceived commitment to winning, and c) ability to turn amateur players into top professional players. So far, a) has not been discussed at all, only so far as adding some "value" players (which might be considered as only a "left-handed" attempt)--and those guys have yet to be signed yet, and c) an admission of "Patience, Folks, but we did draft a lot of pitchers".

[ThePuck]

Ilitch and the Pohlads are both worth over 2.5 billion. Ilitch is 83 certainly can never spend all that money and wants to win while still alive.

 

So do you think Illitch simply wrote out a check from his personal (not Tigers) bank account and picked up Prince Fielder and Torii Hunter?

 

Actually, if I remember correctly, that's exactly what he did for Fielder...He definitely told his GM to go get him, period.

[ThePuck]

Tigers just signed 37 year old Tori Hunter to a twilight of his career contract that is worth more than the Twins "largest free agent contract in team history."

[chagen]

The blow it up talk is total crap. we are what 3 starting pitchers and a few bench/ bullpen arm away. not an impossible task to overcome. We do need to be smart how we deploy resources. We can sign a mid rotation pitcher and trade for another then we are just 1 arm away.....bench. there are several low cost options available and same with bullpen. Get the starting pitching and everything will come into place. The biggest offensive question has already been resolved with Parmalee going to right field that increases the power output in our lineup. Bench could be strengthened with several players, Gomez, Andrew Jones, Inge, and others. bullpen.... we should have plenty of options there too.

 

 

The blow it up talk isn't total crap if the twins aren't willing to go out and get 3 quality starting pitchers which i will be shocked if they do. I'm not talking Joe Blanton i'm talking quality pitchers

[ThePuck]

'The blow it up talk is total crap. we are what 3 starting pitchers and a few bench/ bullpen arm away. not an impossible task to overcome.'

 

is that all? JUST three starting pitchers and a few bullpen arms away? Not like that isn't needing a BUNCH in reality, but also how about a 2B, a shortstop, a 4th starting pitcher (since w only have 1 good one) and maybe even a 3B...

[Guest USAFChief]

I would say that when the Twins felt they had a team that could compete, two years ago, they went about $20 million over budget to bring in some final pieces. It makes no sense to spend that much to finish 3rd or 4th.

 

Complete horsepoop. May I remind folks this is the same poster who told us when the new national TV contract kicks in, and Twins revenues go up by $25m, with zero new costs, we should only expect the Twins to spend half of that on payroll.

[Kwak]

Ilitch and the Pohlads are both worth over 2.5 billion. Ilitch is 83 certainly can never spend all that money and wants to win while still alive.

 

So do you think Illitch simply wrote out a check from his personal (not Tigers) bank account and picked up Prince Fielder and Torii Hunter?

 

Actually, if I remember correctly, that's exactly what he did for Fielder...He definitely told his GM to go get him, period.

 

I think that there is a difference in business philosophies between the Pohlads and Illitch. Illitch (it appears) uses the free cash flow from his food empire to fund his sports empire. Remember that Illitch also owns/funds the Detroit Red Wings which consistently ran a well above average payroll in the NHL to support a highly successful franchise. It appears that Illitch is doing the same for the Detroit Tigers. The Pohlads may (it looks that way to me) be using the the free cash flow from their sports empire to fund their other businesses--especially real estate. Perhaps the Pohlads see greater potential outside of sports than Illitch sees (in Detroit) so they spend differently. It's really nice for Detroit sports fans, and stinks for Minnesota Twins fans. Miami (again) blew-up their team, Oakland did so at the end of 2011, but was able to rebuild stronger than ever. I contend that that is the real problem with the Twins--the ability to rebuild, not the ability to spend.

[powrwrap]

I think that there is a difference in business philosophies between the Pohlads and Illitch. Illitch (it appears) uses the free cash flow from his food empire to fund his sports empire. It appears that Illitch is doing the same for the Detroit Tigers.

 

You're speculating. Unless the Tigers and the Red Wings are legally under the same business entity there is a separation, "a corporate wall" between the two. Of course the Red Wings could loan money to the Tigers, but there would be an accounting and reporting of such on their tax returns.

 

The Pohlads may (it looks that way to me) be using the the free cash flow from their sports empire to fund their other businesses--especially real estate.

 

Same idea here. The Twins are a limited liability corporation and probably have no legal connection between the Pohlad's real estate businesses. If the Pohlad's want to loan the Twins money they could do so. Or if the Minnesota Twins LLC want to loan the real estate business money they could. You don't really think the Pohlad's take their profits from the Twins and deposit it into the real estate business bank account as if it were a gift, do you?

[nicksaviking]

Ilitch and the Pohlads are both worth over 2.5 billion. Ilitch is 83 certainly can never spend all that money and wants to win while still alive.

 

So do you think Illitch simply wrote out a check from his personal (not Tigers) bank account and picked up Prince Fielder and Torii Hunter?

 

Actually, if I remember correctly, that's exactly what he did for Fielder...He definitely told his GM to go get him, period.

 

Not to mention that Illitch got Comerica built with only 40% of the burden on the tax payers as opposed to 66% tax payer burden for Target Field. Illitch paid $180 million for his stadium while 10 years later the Pohlad's only chipped in $172 million despite the enormous amount of additional revenue the MLB label was producting.

[Winston Smith]

A business owner taking money out of his pocket to fund some business venture happens all the time. If it is a publically traded corp that won't happen (they could issue more stock for cash) but any private business can do it whenever they want. This summer when the Wild made the big free agent signings they asked all the owners to chip in some cash to cover the cost. The Timerwolves have lost money many times over the years and Taylor just writes out a check to cover the loss. Some owners are willing to do that and some aren't.

[powrwrap]

A business owner taking money out of his pocket to fund some business venture happens all the time. If it is a publically traded corp that won't happen (they could issue more stock for cash) but any private business can do it whenever they want. This summer when the Wild made the big free agent signings they asked all the owners to chip in some cash to cover the cost. The Timerwolves have lost money many times over the years and Taylor just writes out a check to cover the loss. Some owners are willing to do that and some aren't.

 

My point is that they are not gifting the money. They are making a loan with the expectation of getting paid back. Or they are getting shares of stock.

[SweetOne69]

Illitch owns both the Red Wings and Tigers. He is desperate to win WS title before he dies.