Grief and pain in our community

[ewen21]

 

Well then why don't you find out more about the particulars of the circumstance before trying to twist the conversation. Seems odd that that is the one thing you are claiming not to know anything about.

 

You asked when this will stop. I suggested after the protesters get the changes they want.

I have looked it up and as far as the underlined comment goes can you articulate for me what this means specifically? if they are going to protest until "systemic racism" ends then this is life for the indefinite future.  That will take time, work and cooperation.  When will that begin?

 

If we could wave a magic wand and make it all go away it would have been done by now

[ewen21]

 

The protesters aren't burning buildings, those are the looters.

 

When are you willing to give the protesters what they want?

This is starting to become a ransom letter.  The protesters need to understand that the rioters are using them to do their thing.  If the protesters don't get this then I question their leadership.  It's been nine days of this stuff and It is high time their leadership puts the signs down, stop blocking streets and allow people to get back to work, run errands and live daily life.  This includes everyone. Whites, blacks, everyone. 

 

This is all happening in the backdrop of a pandemic.  I am sorry, but it is past the point of it being a reasonable protest.  Not when all this collateral damage is occurring

 

Time to move on to the next phase and start the conversation  

[nicksaviking]

 

I have looked it up and as far as the underlined comment goes can you articulate for me what this means specifically? if they are going to protest until "systemic racism" ends then this is life for the indefinite future.  That will take time, work and cooperation.  When will that begin?

 

If we could wave a magic wand and make it all go away it would have been done by now

 

Ok, to start I'm confident they'd like people to stop saying "All Lives Matter" as nearly everyone else sees it as an attempt to de-value BLM.

 

How about you and everyone else just stop saying that, even if it's just out of common courtesy as those that want to say it have been repeatedly told that everyone else finds it offensive? Is that too big of a concession? 

 

[ewen21]

We haven't been able to solve the racial injustice thing through protests, looting, riots, etc... for well over 50 years.  How are we supposed to get this done in one day?  I think now more than ever the door is open for some real talk, but it isn't getting done by by closing streets and highways so people can walk around with signs while bad actors loot and burn cities.

[ewen21]

 

Ok, to start I'm confident they'd like people to stop saying "All Lives Matter" as nearly everyone else sees it as an attempt to de-value BLM.

 

How about you and everyone else just stop saying that, even if it's just out of common courtesy as those that want to say it have been repeatedly told that everyone else finds it offensive? Is that too big of a concession? 

I have never once uttered those words to anyone.  I have never tried it out on the internet until now.  I chose this place because I knew this place is overwhelmingly white.  I already told "gunnarthor" YOU WIN!  I will never say that again.  What the heck more do you want?  It is a dead issue at this point.

 

The real issue I have right now is the collateral damage from this week and change of mayhem.  Businesses have been destroyed, neighborhoods have been burned and looted, people are trying to put their lives back together as it is with COVID-19.  Is there any space in your heart for all those innocent people who have been victimized by the riots?

 

And please.  Let's acknowledge that (even if unintentional) the protests enable the riots.  I understand the difference between the two groups but no one here seems to be able to see the symbiotic relationship between the two.  If the protesters addressed the looters by saying,

"We will stop protesting if the looting doesn't end" we will see real quick who the bad actors are.  I have yet to see that

[nicksaviking]

 

I have never once uttered those words to anyone.  I have never tried it out on the internet until now.  I chose this place because I knew this place is overwhelmingly white.  I already told "gunnarthor" YOU WIN!  I will never say that again.  What the heck more do you want?  It is a dead issue at this point.

 

 

 

It's not a dead point, you may not say it, but plenty of people are, and they are the same people who pretend to want to actually have a discussion to "fix" things. More importantly many of the leaders you support still put out that message if not that exact phrase. I would guess if those leaders resigned or got voted out of office, the protesters would stop.

[ewen21]

 

It's not a dead point, you may not say it, but plenty of people are, and they are the same people who pretend to want to actually have a discussion to "fix" things. More importantly many of the leaders you support still put out that message if not that exact phrase. I would guess if those leaders resigned or got voted out of office, the protesters would stop.

It's a dead point as far as trying to convince me to stop saying it

[Craig Arko]

Just thinking for my community here in Minneapolis, I would say booking and charging the other 3 officers involved would go a long way to cooling things off.

 

For myself, I'd like to see Kroll finally sent packing. Maybe the State's Human Rights Department will be able to get that done.

[ashbury]

Just thinking for my community here in Minneapolis, I would say booking and charging the other 3 officers involved would go a long way to cooling things off.

A decision is about to be announced, early this afternoon, according to news reports I've glanced at.

[AZTwin]

At this point for the country to heal there needs to be justice served for all the innocent officers and businessmen murdered, as well as those that have had their livelihoods lost, as a result of this madness. Instead celebrities are celebrating and bailing those out that were “fighters”. One ESPN commentator even said “Burn that **** down” referring to a housing project being burned in Minneapolis. A day later he cried when his rich house became threatened. They want the mayhem as long as it only hurts the ones that they are saying they are trying to protect

[ashbury]

At this point for the country to heal there needs to be justice served for all the innocent officers and businessmen murdered, as well as those that have had their livelihoods lost, as a result of this madness. Instead celebrities are celebrating and bailing those out that were “fighters”. One ESPN commentator even said “Burn that **** down” referring to a housing project being burned in Minneapolis. A day later he cried when his rich house became threatened. They want the mayhem as long as it only hurts the ones that they are saying they are trying to protect

Your analysis has it precisely backwards, and I'd be repeating myself to explain how.

 

[Craig Arko]

I see both the Minneapolis Public School District and the Minneapolis Park Board are severing ties to the MPD.

[AZTwin]

I fully support George Floyd but there is such thing as having decency:

 

https://ktrh.iheart.com/featured/michael-berry/content/2020-06-02-virginia-police-chief-rioters-blocked-firefighters-from-responding-to-fire/

[gunnarthor]

Just to keep some of this sports related. Eric Reid has been pretty open about the NFL's race issues and it has cost him, although not as much as it cost Kaepernick. The other day the 49ers, like many teams, used the hashtag 'blackouttuesday'. Reid criticized them and called it 'blackball tuesday.'

 

It's kind of funny and the sort of story that gets picked up since Reid had sued the NFL for being blackballed after taking a knee. Several outlets picked up the story including yahoo sports, SI, TMZ, bleacher report, etc.

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/eric-reid-criticizes-49-ers-for-blackout-tuesday-post-i-think-you-meant-blackball-tuesday-192410371.html

 

ESPN and NFL.com did not cover it.

[Craig Arko]

 

A decision is about to be announced, early this afternoon, according to news reports I've glanced at.

It appears Ellison is pressing charges.

 

https://www.startribune.com/ellison-expected-to-provide-update-on-george-floyd-investigation/570984872/

[howeda7]

 

By your rationale no one can say lives matter unless the word "black" is in front of it.  I don't agree with that kind of manipulation of the language and one should not feel guilty saying that if they believe it.

 

We are not going to agree so I am done talking about this particular issue.  Thanks for listening

You're free to say what you want. But don't claim to be ignorant of or victimized by how it will be received by others just because you disagree with it.

[howeda7]

 

We haven't been able to solve the racial injustice thing through protests, looting, riots, etc... for well over 50 years.  How are we supposed to get this done in one day?  I think now more than ever the door is open for some real talk, but it isn't getting done by by closing streets and highways so people can walk around with signs while bad actors loot and burn cities.

No one is asking for it to be done in a day. We can start by charging the officers in this case, which is being done, thanks in no small part thanks to the protests.

[howeda7]

 

 

It's a dead point as far as trying to convince me to stop saying it

Don't claim to be interested in addressing the systemic problems if you can't do something as simple as stop saying something with racist connotations.

[ewen21]

 

No one is asking for it to be done in a day. We can start by charging the officers in this case, which is being done, thanks in no small part thanks to the protests.

 

"When are you willing to give the protesters what they want?" Is what another guy asked and you liked.  This was in response to my suggestion that the protesters stand down (after nine days) so we can actually move on to the next phase.

 

When do we move on from all this disorder and begin the process?  Don't tell me "When we give the protesters what they want' because they are need to tell everyone what that looks like.  Two groups together working on this struggle.  If the notion is GIVE US WHAT WE WANT or this won't stop then that tells me they don't want a conversation.  They just want to go off for a while.

 

You can romanticize about the protests all you want, but this is ruining lots of lives.  I would like you to watch these video and get back to me:

 

The sad part is the protests are too chaotic due to the fact that bad actors are thriving in this setting.  I understand the sentiment, but don't understand why the can't connect point a to point b.  AND I am speaking about everyone.  The majority of the demonstrators are white.  I can't even say what the racial breakdown of looters and arsonist are but it could be majority white as well.  Don't paint me as being against finding common ground.  People in these cities have rights, too.

 

The solution might be if you are white and out after curfew law enforcement takes you down first.  How is that for an idea?  I am all in on that one

[stringer bell]

 

I am offended by the N-word and no doubt so is everyone here.  African Americans are offended by the N-word, too.  Yet there are countless hip hop songs that are peppered with the word.  What about that?  Why is that word so important in that culture?  Moreover, why is that culture so important in defining African American males.  I am also confused as to why they say "Black Lives Matter" while the murder rate in their community is far beyond that of any other community.  Black lives seem to only matter when a white person ends it.  Since African Americans males murder people at a much higher rate than any other group of people it stands to reason they will tangle with law enforcement.  Too many young African Americans are enamored with the gangster code.  That is the power structure in many communities in a lot of cases.  Can we have a conversation about breaking that cycle someday soon?  (I will attempt to post my plan to offset that behavior later).  Don't they have responsibility to change themselves as well?  This is why I don't like it when people start playing games with language. It becomes a distraction from the real issue:

 

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-2018/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-6.xls

When the race of the offender was known, 54.9 percent were Black or African American, 42.4 percent were White, and 2.7 percent were of other races. The race was unknown for 4,821 offenders.  African Americans make up 13% of the population and are responsible for 55% of the homicides.  And that is probably a generous figure when considering the unsolved crimes, which is substantial.  The no snitch code is real in African American inner city life.  If I learned anything working in a residential treatment facility in the 90s for 2 years with predominantly African American and Hispanic teens shipped "upstate" from the Bronx, Brooklyn and Queens it was that a whole lot of them love mafia movies and the "gangster code".  Being of Italian heritage that pains me.  If you asked these teens what their favorite movie was it would be Scarface, Goodfellas, Dead Presidents, Casino, etc.....I would like to have a serious conversation about facts and factors contributing to the issue that has stopped America in its track.  This side of the issue exists and yet it is consistently brushed aside.  I derive no pleasure from pointing this out and actually feel sick after I hit POST when I post a message like this, but I don't see profit in sweeping things under the rug.  If we are going to be at all honest about what happens with regard to violence people actually must familiarize themselves with the data.

 

Does anyone here know how many unarmed black men were killed by police last year?  I can't find the data anywhere.  Why is that?  I heard the number was 9 and that was from Bernard Kerik.  In comparison 19 unarmed whites were killed by police (according to Kerik).  Does anyone know the name of any unarmed white person killed by police?  Why isn't this information discussed and prominent in the ongoing discussion?  It should have been when Kaepernick was kneeling, but he never wanted to take it any further than his protest.  I fear that this is all we will get.  A massive protest with ominous messages to follow and no actual dialogue about the data.  

 

It makes me wonder if they want to attempt to curb violence.  The protesters have to understand that even if they are assembling peacefully when they do it in such large numbers it opens the door for looting, arson and other things. They had 8 days of national protest. If they are interested in beginning the healing process they need to take a day or two to organize and prepare for dialogue.  

 

I am all for racial equality, but on the subject of violent crime and violent acts we need to have a real discussion about it.  There hasn't been.

 

Thanks for letting me speak about this.  

While I am not a minority and have dealt less with them than you say you have, I do want to rebut at least part of what you are saying. You have mentioned black criminality and black homicides frequently when discussing racial issues and I do agree that it is an issue to be dealt with, but the issue here is taking of lives by law enforcement. In 2019, 1100 lives were taken by law enforcement, of which 24% were African-American. Many of the 1100 cases are explained by the behavior of the victim or circumstances. Anecdotally, many cases where black lives have been taken seem to have no explanation, such as George Floyd case. Further, 99% of the time when someone dies at the hands of law enforcement, they are not convicted of a crime. 

 

I did do some work with Crime Statistics many years ago and to call any crime statistics reliable seems to me to be a stretch. 

 

I think the mindset is there for many people who don't consider themselves to have any racial animus, to view a large segment, if not all, of the black population as crime-infested and not respective of law and norms. That type of mindset leads to racial profiling and eventually to disproportionate incarceration and also disproportionate death at the hands of law enforcement. To paint a broad brush against all the race and dismiss complaints by quoting crime stats isn't right or fair IMHO.

[ewen21]

 

 

 

I think the mindset is there for many people who don't consider themselves to have any racial animus, to view a large segment, if not all, of the black population as crime-infested and not respective of law and norms. That type of mindset leads to racial profiling and eventually to disproportionate incarceration and also disproportionate death at the hands of law enforcement. To paint a broad brush against all the race and dismiss complaints by quoting crime stats isn't right or fair IMHO.

I respect your post and am mystified as to why the numbers are not more available.  All that said I want to respond to this first and then backtrack.  THe underlined part, specifically.

 

THis is something of great concern to me.  You chose the name "Stringer Bell" for what reason?  I don't mean to be combative, but I would like to know what about that character appealed to you so much that you chose him to be the name that comes up whenever you post? I guess it is fun to watch, but not so fun talking about?  Sorry man, just gotta say.

(And I respect the hell out you as a poster)

 

YES, a higher amount of African Americans are killed by police, but given the proportion of violent crime committed it means they come into contact with law enforcement investigating violent crimes at a much higher rate. I don't know how that ends if this doesn't get addressed within the communities.  How can it be addressed?  I think for one, shows like The Wire don't do anything to uplift African Americans.  Nor do I think rap music and the gangster code helps either.  So many people are trying to identify with that mindset and it is problematic.  I liked movies like Scarface, Dead Presidents, Goodfellas, Clockers, Colors, New Jersey Drive etc... but when I worked at a residential treatment facility in upstate NY for two years I came into contact with a lot of young black males.  Virtually every one of them loved those movies and patterned their existence after them and rappers like DMX because he was the most real (and he was from NY)

 

I think a big thing that can help lies in the trades.  It used to be there were a lot of African American blue collar workers.  At some point the education system decided all students were college bound and blue collar jobs were labeled beneath people.  There needs to be programs that give easy entry (and incentives) to young African American males.  I would hope we can make programs in the trades for kids who drop out of school and change the way high schools operate.   As a country we need more people in the trades.  Let them apprentice and earn some $$ exploring fields like auto mechanics, electricians, masonry, plumbing, HMO operating, etc....

These are legitimate careers. Next I would have these programs work in conjunction with opportunity zones so that there can be black owned and black built places that they control.  Imagine a community built from the ground up with black construction firms?

 

Maybe I am dreaming, but I think somehow something like this can help.  The problem faced by the African Americans in question (not the majority of them) is that they don't have options beyond what you see in shows like The Wire.  I teach in a suburban school district and my school is almost a 1/3 Hispanic when it used to be 99% white when I started 23 years ago.  Blue collar work gave these Hispanic families mobility.  They don't face the same challenges African Americans do but they work hard and are rewarded for an honest day of work. 

 

Unfortunately, hustling for the quick buck is far more respected than being a square than working hard to get someplace that might take years.  If we can make the route to a solid career quicker and more accessible (specifically ones in the trades) we could see a little more hope.

 

 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I say we treat people like people, listen to them with open minds and open hearts, and start from there. 

[Richie the Rally Goat]

YES, a higher amount of African Americans are killed by police, but given the proportion of violent crime committed it means they come into contact with law enforcement investigating violent crimes at a much higher rate. I don't know how that ends if this doesn't get addressed within the communities. How can it be addressed? I think for one, shows like The Wire don't do anything to uplift African Americans. Nor do I think rap music and the gangster code helps either. So many people are trying to identify with that mindset and it is problematic. I liked movies like Scarface, Dead Presidents, Goodfellas, Clockers, Colors, New Jersey Drive etc... but when I worked at a residential treatment facility in upstate NY for two years I came into contact with a lot of young black males. Virtually every one of them loved those movies and patterned their existence after them and rappers like DMX because he was the most real (and he was from NY)

 

I think a big thing that can help lies in the trades. It used to be there were a lot of African American blue collar workers. At some point the education system decided all students were college bound and blue collar jobs were labeled beneath people. There needs to be programs that give easy entry (and incentives) to young African American males. I would hope we can make programs in the trades for kids who drop out of school and change the way high schools operate. As a country we need more people in the trades. Let them apprentice and earn some $$ exploring fields like auto mechanics, electricians, masonry, plumbing, HMO operating, etc....

These are legitimate careers. Next I would have these programs work in conjunction with opportunity zones so that there can be black owned and black built places that they control. Imagine a community built from the ground up with black construction firms?

 

Maybe I am dreaming, but I think somehow something like this can help. The problem faced by the African Americans in question (not the majority of them) is that they don't have options beyond what you see in shows like The Wire. I teach in a suburban school district and my school is almost a 1/3 Hispanic when it used to be 99% white when I started 23 years ago. Blue collar work gave these Hispanic families mobility. They don't face the same challenges African Americans do but they work hard and are rewarded for an honest day of work.

 

Unfortunately, hustling for the quick buck is far more respected than being a square than working hard to get someplace that might take years. If we can make the route to a solid career quicker and more accessible (specifically ones in the trades) we could see a little more hope.

There is a lot going on here

 

1) just and equal economic opportunity

2) economics of crime

3) statistical sampling

 

1) we agree that economic opportunity is not equal or just among people of different races and ethnicities.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/03/politics/black-white-us-financial-inequality/index.html

 

2) when you don’t have a lot to lose, the deterrence of jail isn’t very effective.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1573446399300432

 

3) you’ve no doubt read the theme of institutional racism in my posts. We’ve seen anecdotal evidence of it with the Floyd case. Hennepin county medical examiner, the prosecuter, the review board.... all of them tried to sweep this under the rug.

 

If so many people were complicit in this murder, how are statistics compiled in the links? By the very police who are already biased. There’s nothing random about the sample. If police go out of their way to find crime in a specific population, that is where it will be found.

 

So we have a group of people who felt (and are) discriminates against, that now in the days of Covid-19 being treated expendable by their employers and government institutions, and then Chauvin murdered Floyd. No wonder people are protesting. I’m angry too.

 

So how do we move forward?

 

It’s clearly not only one issue or solution. Comprehensive reform may not be achieved in our lifetimes.

 

glunn brought up reforming the review board.

The Civil Rights investigation is a start.

Reviewing the War on Drugs seems like a good place to start.

I like the idea of economic reform to go with it.

 

How does this all go together?

[ewen21]

First of all, I respect you.  You might not like what I am about to say in response to this but I have to say it.

If so many people were complicit in this murder, how are statistics compiled in the links? By the very police who are already biased. There’s nothing random about the sample. If police go out of their way to find crime in a specific population, that is where it will be found.

 

You're telling me either police go out of their way to "find crime in a specific population" or the FBI and DOJ fudge the statistics.

Oh brother.  You just made my teeth hurt.

 

I am talking about violent crime and only violent crime.  Do you realize that violent crimes in sections of predominantly African American inner cities are far less likely to be solved and prosecuted than crimes in other places?  It is a problem bemoaned by prosecutors all over America.  There is a no snitch code in places where violent crime is the most dangerous gang-infested areas.  (any of this news to you?)

One could make the argument that violent crime in the African American community is underrepresented because you can not have statistics for the offender when no one comes forward to identify who did it.

 

You are very well-intentioned but perhaps naïve.  I would love to do an experiment with you or anyone else here in Twins Daily just to see what would happen.  Let me choose five places for you to go for a three mile walk and show you images of each place.  If four of those places are inner-city African American neighborhoods and the fifth is a suburban white neighborhood which do you choose and why?

 

So much sermonizing here. This isn't altruism on your part.  It is excuse making

 

[Richie the Rally Goat]

First of all, I respect you. You might not like what I am about to say in response to this but I have to say it.

You're telling me either police go out of their way to "find crime in a specific population" or the FBI and DOJ fudge the statistics.

Oh brother. You just made my teeth hurt.

 

I am talking about violent crime and only violent crime. Do you realize that violent crimes in sections of predominantly African American inner cities are far less likely to be solved and prosecuted than crimes in other places? It is a problem bemoaned by prosecutors all over America. There is a no snitch code in places where violent crime is the most dangerous gang-infested areas. (any of this news to you?)

One could make the argument that violent crime in the African American community is underrepresented because you can not have statistics for the offender when no one comes forward to identify who did it.

 

You are very well-intentioned but perhaps naïve. I would love to do an experiment with you or anyone else here in Twins Daily just to see what would happen. Let me choose five places for you to go for a three mile walk and show you images of each place. If four of those places are inner-city African American neighborhoods and the fifth is a suburban white neighborhood which do you choose and why?

 

So much sermonizing here. This isn't altruism on your part. It is excuse making

I asked you point blank, “how do we move forward?”

 

You responded by calling me names.

[ashbury]

I am talking about violent crime and only violent crime. 

Why? The topic of the thread pertains to George Floyd, who was being investigated over passing a counterfeit $20 bill. Any such encounter for law enforcement that ends up with a dead suspect has to be considered a failed outcome for that agency.

 

Philando Castile wound up dead during a routine traffic stop. Another failed outcome.

 

Breonna Taylor died when the police burst in with a search warrant for drugs. Being in the wrong apartment, when the actual person they were looking for was already in custody, for a crime that was in the category of non-violent, could be fairly described as a failed outcome.

 

Eric Garner died during an arrest for selling cigarettes without the necessary tax paperwork. Once again an arrest on a trivial offense becomes a failed outcome.

 

Perhaps, just perhaps, a decade or so of respite from this kind of incompetence (or intent) might result in a better consensus about snitching on violent crime too. The results won't be instantaneous though.

 

And in the meantime, it is natural to wonder about the motivation of bringing in the notion of violent crime when we're discussing police over-reaction to nonviolent crime enforcement.

 

[ashbury]

This collection is making the rounds. Maybe you've seen most of them. Enjoy.

 

 

 

Saying "All Lives Matter" in response to "Black Lives Matter" is like...

• saying the fire department should spray down all houses in town when one house is on fire, because "All Houses Matter"
• running through an American Cancer Society fundraiser shouting "All Diseases Matter"
• responding to "Save The Rainforests" with "oh, so you're saying you don't care about all the other forests???"
• crashing a stranger's funeral, shouting "I TOO HAVE FELT LOSS!"
• going to the doctor with a broken arm, and being lectured, "All Bones Matter"

[ewen21]

 

I asked you point blank, “how do we move forward?”

You responded by calling me names.

I can repost what I posted before.  I am tired and I have long day tomorrow.  I will build on what I posted about rebuilding through incentives in the trades and other ideas.  It isn't like I am not thinking of solutions.

 

 

[ewen21]

Forget that violent crime is overwhelmingly disproportionate by race.  I don't need to prove a fact.  Let me move on to this:

Why? The topic of the thread pertains to George Floyd, who was being investigated over passing a counterfeit $20 bill. Any such encounter for law enforcement that ends up with a dead suspect has to be considered a failed outcome for that agency.

 

 

 

Do you know how many unarmed PEOPLE were killed by the police last year?

 

(I know the story of Eric Garner and George Floyd and both made me sick to my stomach.  Please don't suggest I don't care)

 

I think it is important the actual number and cases be discussed.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

If George Floyd had expressed himself slightly differently, would his crying out "I need to breathe" be helpfully responded to by a passerby saying, "yes, my brother, we ALL need to breathe"? All humans must breathe but Mr Floyd was in need of direct and immediate action. The two turns of phrase are not mirror images of one another.

 

The phrase "black lives matter" came into being because there is a clear pattern, of those engaging in law enforcement, behaving too many times as though the lives of the people in their care, or even while being subdued, do not even matter. To reply that all lives matter, is dismissive, and amounts to twisting their words to imply that they meant black lives matter more than others. Which they manifestly did not mean.*

 

The phrase is intended to focus on a known problem, and to propose a simple remedy. It's at heart a courteous plea to police officers, "remember, a black life is worth something, and right now you may forget that you hold it in your hands".

 

Mocking it with the mimicry of All Lives Matter has been understood to be discourteous for nearly a decade now. If someone with a job in the public eye finds himself looking for work, that's pretty much his problem by now, as being a slow learner.

 

I'll say it a different way - when a benign phrase like BLM receives a deaf ear or (worse) active rebuttal seemingly every time it's uttered outside the comfort of the left's echo chamber, it's unsurprising if ACAB starts to take its place.
 

^{* _{I'm sure you can find someone who ever did say black lives are superior. Because the world is a big place and extremists can always be located.}}

I'm not here to debate the nuances of the phrases. I want less dead. If that means all lives matter, so be it. But ultimately, less people need to be needlessly dead at the hands of those sworn to serve and protect.

 

Clear pattern is what I bolded, because I'm not quite sure at quick glance that it's as clear as we all think. This is what I'm trying to find right now, so perhaps you can enlighten me because what I'm seeing in the numbers says we need to look at this closer... 

 

This is the 2018 stat I found... take a closer look at the race break down from what I suspect is a pro LE site. It's not disproportionately black. (note, I have a real problem with police brutality just in case anyone wants to accuse me here, but no one here recognizes names like Dylan Noble or Zach Hammond, and the only reason why people know Justine Damond was because she's an attractive white woman and in our case from Minneapolis... sorry, I'm a real cynic here. It shouldn't be this way, but I don't believe for one minute that what goes viral simply because it happened. Prove me wrong, because I need more faith in humanity)

 

This is 2019 from stastica.com, which I hope at least attempts to be neutral.

 

This is 2013-2019 which supports your case a bit more, but from what looks like a not so pro LE site, so sadly I have to note that.  

 

This is 2017-2020 which when normalized to percentages of population might support your conclusion a bit more (albeit I didn't bother trying to calculate the standard deviation), but the raw numbers do not. (note: statistica again).

 

Just looking at these sites I see a clear pattern in volume that doesn't quite add to your conclusion.. the numbers don't quite line up between all of them which concerns me to a big extent because it calls everyone's source into question.

 

So I changed up and looked into population percentages. African Americans amount to roughly 13% of the population (note I found numbers on both sides of that and only linked the Wiki which puts it at 12.6%). Based on that number, there seems to be an elevation of percentage of African Americans being killed by cops. I'm not sure on the confidence of those numbers since we're talking about roughly 1k people total per year across races against 320+M people in the US, but at first glance it should be a bit more in your favor here.

 

I guess where I'm going with this is to ask the math questions no one seems to ask... Are we sure it's a race thing and not a poverty thing or perhaps something else? We do this in baseball all the time when we talk about correlation and causation.  Not that poverty (or something else) is an excuse or that brutality is OK ever.. but I'm asking, because I don't think the numbers are quite as "clear" as you're implying. 

 

Let me be clear to those that don't know me well, I'm not pro LE or pro BLM. I want less killings. I don't want cops killed (full disclosure, my sister is a cop). I don't think all cops are bad. I want protests because they need to happen, but I also think that the rioting and looting is bad too. I think stereotyping cops as bad is bad. I also think concentrating on looters during protests is just bad too because ultimately most cops don't want people dead and most protesters have no interest in looting and rioting. In general, a stereotype is bad.

 

In my opinion, the only time I think a police killing is justified is when someone is actively attempting to kill an officer (i.e. they attempted to kill first) or another civilian (I'm a bit more willing to relax the standards here in the sense that police are using force to stop someone from killing someone else who isn't a cop). I don't think "I thought s/he had a gun" is justified, and I do not think that it's at all acceptable for either side to retaliate. I hope I covered all the scenarios... don't flay me if I didn't.

 

There's a real problem with police killing innocent people, and it needs to be fixed as way too many unarmed people end up dead (this should be incredibly rare, and far more so than it presently is)... but any time I look at the numbers I see something that's bigger than a race issue. Am I wrong? Perhaps. But is it fair to ask that we put perception aside and ask for reality?

 

We're baseball fans first and foremost... and supposedly, we're really good at this kind of stuff. How about we put our politics aside for the moment and spend some energy looking at it from this perspective. Any takers?