MLB cut minor league teams

[h2oface]

 

Seriously, you need to stop with this. You've got an opinion. You want to convince everyone of your opinion. It quite literally got the previous discussion on minor league pay shut down. Having a considerate, respectful conversation about minor league pay is absolutely possible, and I've had it with people on both sides of the issue around the game.

 

I will tell you that since I did the research for my piece, 

 

Excellent article and research. Thanks for posting it.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

If they are doing "what they love", then they are for sure not underpaid.  

 

I don't want to get into this issue again, but the fact is you cannot be exploited if you have choices.

 

When you choose between job offers, you use all of the factors related to the job:  compensation, location, benefits, future promotions, uniforms, etc, etc, etc and make a totally subjective decision based upon your other alternatives.   

 

If you are a high school player drafted one of the alternatives is to go play college baseball.  If you are a college player drafted, one of the alternatvies is to stop playing a game and get on with your life, perhaps earn or use your college degree to start your professional career.

 

The other fact is, if you do not pay enough then you will not get enough labor productivity which is both quantity and quality.  If you are Walmart paying lower wages your labor will have lower productivity even though in general Walmart rarely lacks for job applicants.  

 

The economic fact for baseball considering raising their minor league base salaries is that they are probably not getting enough labor productivity.  I think the quantity is there, in other words they are getting enough players nterested in playing professional baseball.  But, baseball is losing to other sports in the competition for athletic talent.  

Choice or not, the issue at hand is employers getting together and deciding where potential employees will work and how much they will be paid. If this didn't happen, players would sign for market rate, which would be much higher.

 

That is a blatant anti-trust violation.

 

I get the need for competitive balance and a draft. It's fundamental to making the sport work, but if you're going to do this, you have to cover the well being of all of the players, not just the ones you want to keep. Like it or not, the union failed on this, as minor leaguers don't get a voting membership yet are represented by them. 

[mlhouse]

 

Seriously, you need to stop with this. You've got an opinion. You want to convince everyone of your opinion. It quite literally got the previous discussion on minor league pay shut down. Having a considerate, respectful conversation about minor league pay is absolutely possible, and I've had it with people on both sides of the issue around the game.

 

I will tell you that since I did the research for my piece, one of the gentlemen that I talked to who was really hanging on, hoping for a breakthrough chance with a club as an upper-level guy who was a quad-A type but really had good qualities as a future MLB coach or even manager has chosen to leave baseball altogether. The virus caused him not to be paid, which led to him picking up a gig job, and his wife is now pregnant with their first child. Whether he would have been a major league player at all, he was a potentially excellent coach that could have been very valuable to an organization in that capacity, and now he is leaving the game behind.

 

It's not a matter of not getting quality from the product. For one, measuring that quality is not a cut and dry thing, and any person working in a front office will tell you that in their first two minutes of describing evaluating value received from a trade or draft or free agent signing.

As far as I am concerned, I don't have to do anything.  I can make a statement of microeconomic facts whenever I want.

 

Next, you falsely believe that there is "objective" value.  There isn't. Value is always subjective.  Don't believe it?  What is your favorite color car?

 

As far as you friend "hanging on", that is an economic choice that everyone in the world makes.   

 

Your friend has/had options.  He could continue with baseball but there were other opportunities out there.  HE EVALUATED THE OPTIONS AND BASED UPON HIS OWN SUBJECTIVE CRITERIA HE MADE HIS DECISION.  Guess, what...  whatever choice he made was the best on.  Just like if you use all of the analytics and the pinch hitter strikes out, it was still the correct decision.  

 

Second, it is the choice of the employer to decide what the potential value of your friend was.  Just because this individual may have thought he was future coaching material, that isn't a decision for him to decide.  It is the decision of his future employers.   

What you are claiming is that an employer should be forced to pay you for whatever role YOU think you should have:  "I'm the next Tom Kelly.  Now pay me enough so I can show you".  Doesnt work that way and the reality is if a team/employer thinks you are good enough for higher level jobs, they will pay you accordingly.  Top level talent is paid.  

[twinfan]

I think it's just stupid though an economic move. With baseball continuing to lose popularity, they take away some of the grass roots teams that young kids can identify with. I remember the town I lived in when it lost a minor league team for a couple of years. It lost a big place for father's to take their boys and girls on a summer night without spending a fortune and a team the kids could identify with. Just stupid.

[yarnivek1972]

I certainly do not have the same opinion. Not underpaid? People accept being underpaid all the time when they get to do what they love, especially at that young age, and the carrot on the string dangling in front of them every minute of every day is what makes them accept it. The whole "intern" system in all business is based upon working for a pittance, or even nothing, for the dream of "making it", and the explotation is rampant. MLB is no exception. Even with the projected raises for the 2021 season, if there is a next season..... it is still very exploitative, with the dream being the reason they do it, and accept it. Please note the "from" numbers. Even the "Up to" is pathetic.

 

https://mlb.nbcsports.com/2020/02/16/mlb-to-raise-minor-league-salaries-for-2021-season/

 

The raises (for 2021) will range between 38 percent and 72 percent. Here are the weekly raises broken down by level:

Rookie and short-season: Up to $400 from $290

Single-A: Up to $500 from $290

Double-A: Up to $600 from $350

Triple-A: Up to $700 from $502

While the raises are nice, it is not nearly enough. This still does not guarantee minor league players a livable wage. As the Associated Press notes, Triple-A players can earn $14,000 for their five-month season and short-season players can earn $4,800 for their three-month season. Minor leaguers are not paid during the offseason or for spring training.

Major League Baseball for years lobbied Congress to prevent minor league players from earning worker protections like a minimum wage and overtime pay, earning a legislative victory last year. The raises are a fraction of what they might otherwise pay in a just society.

 

(I think the meal allowance for this year is $25/day. I don't know what it is next year)

 

 

 

and from the MILB site, for 2020.......

https://www.milb.com/about/faqs-business#11

 

Q. What do Minor League players earn?

A. Minor League Baseball player contracts are handled by the Major League Baseball office. Here are the salary ranges:

First contract season: $1,100/month maximum. After that, open to negotiation.

Alien Salary Rates: Different for aliens on visas as mandated by INS (the United States Immigration and Naturalization Service).

Meal Money: $25 per day at all levels, while on the road.

 

 

There are signing bonuses for some, sure, and it buys many of them away from a valuable education and college, but that is a bonus, and not a salary. I challenge anyone to make it on that pay in this day and age. Add a family that may be starting... and help must come from elsewhere.

Correct me if I am wrong, but don’t teams typically house minor league players in a dorm type setting? Obviously, they still have to live somewhere the rest of the year, but if you don’t have living expenses for half of the year (March through August) your money will stretch a lot farther.

[old nurse]

 

That said, it's been said that a minor league team is 2-5 guys who matter and the rest of the team is there in order to play catch with them. Without those guys playing catch, the 2-5 guys never develop. There's a reason for those players that is overlooked when folks go quickly to a minimalistic modality of the minor league system.

You are actually providing the reason why not to have a short season A ball team when there is a long season A and duplicate rookie leagues. There are too few good players to go around.

[Rosterman]

There will still be A, A+ AA and AAA. I think they want to reformat so minor league teams are closer to major leaguye teams overall if possible, or possibly minmor league complex. Which means the Twins would be looking to move, say, AAA from Rochester to someplace closer to Minnesota, keeping A in Iowa, and AA is fine because it is close to Ft. Myers. All teams will still have their training complex, kinda like an academy, for the lowest level players. More intrasquad gamnes than touring. But basically another 25-30 players will be cut loose to play "indy ball" which will be controlled by the majors. WHo knows salary or conditions of ballparks. Like indy leagues now, will be undrafted hopefuls or players looking for comebacks.

 

[yarnivek1972]

There will still be A, A+ AA and AAA. I think they want to reformat so minor league teams are closer to major leaguye teams overall if possible, or possibly minmor league complex. Which means the Twins would be looking to move, say, AAA from Rochester to someplace closer to Minnesota, keeping A in Iowa, and AA is fine because it is close to Ft. Myers. All teams will still have their training complex, kinda like an academy, for the lowest level players. More intrasquad gamnes than touring. But basically another 25-30 players will be cut loose to play "indy ball" which will be controlled by the majors. WHo knows salary or conditions of ballparks. Like indy leagues now, will be undrafted hopefuls or players looking for comebacks.

Moving the Twins AAA team closer to Minnesota would increase it’s costs because travel would be farther. There is only one other AAA team within 250 miles of Minneapolis.

[Mr. Brooks]

Correct me if I am wrong, but don’t teams typically house minor league players in a dorm type setting? Obviously, they still have to live somewhere the rest of the year, but if you don’t have living expenses for half of the year (March through August) your money will stretch a lot farther.

I don't believe that is common, no.

I know many Twins affiliates rely on charity housing from private citizens.

[rdehring]

 

Moving the Twins AAA team closer to Minnesota would increase it’s costs because travel would be farther. There is only one other AAA team within 250 miles of Minneapolis.

From what I have read, I get the feeling that there are going to be lots of changes to the current leagues.  Wouldn't shock me if AAA ended up being three leagues of 10 teams each, one Eastern, one Western, and one Central.  Sure would be nice if the Twins AAA team ended up playing across the river in St. Paul.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Correct me if I am wrong, but don’t teams typically house minor league players in a dorm type setting? Obviously, they still have to live somewhere the rest of the year, but if you don’t have living expenses for half of the year (March through August) your money will stretch a lot farther.

only certain affiliations. I believe the Twins do it with their GCL teams and Hi A since they're both in Fort Meyers. Apply league players stay with host parents I believe. It's not done everywhere, and honestly if it was, along with food, there wouldn't be much to complain about.

 

I remember chatting with Seth about that when I was spring training a few years ago... If I remember right, they have to pay for those facilities too, though it's a ridiculously below market rate (like a few dollars a day)… 

[Riverbrian]

 

As far as I am concerned, I don't have to do anything.  I can make a statement of microeconomic facts whenever I want.

 

Next, you falsely believe that there is "objective" value.  There isn't. Value is always subjective.  Don't believe it?  What is your favorite color car?

 

As far as you friend "hanging on", that is an economic choice that everyone in the world makes.   

 

Your friend has/had options.  He could continue with baseball but there were other opportunities out there.  HE EVALUATED THE OPTIONS AND BASED UPON HIS OWN SUBJECTIVE CRITERIA HE MADE HIS DECISION.  Guess, what...  whatever choice he made was the best on.  Just like if you use all of the analytics and the pinch hitter strikes out, it was still the correct decision.  

 

Second, it is the choice of the employer to decide what the potential value of your friend was.  Just because this individual may have thought he was future coaching material, that isn't a decision for him to decide.  It is the decision of his future employers.   

What you are claiming is that an employer should be forced to pay you for whatever role YOU think you should have:  "I'm the next Tom Kelly.  Now pay me enough so I can show you".  Doesnt work that way and the reality is if a team/employer thinks you are good enough for higher level jobs, they will pay you accordingly.  Top level talent is paid.  

 

You are not calculating the implications of being drafted and held.  

 

Walmart can't draft me and prevent me from working at Target if the job is better for me and my career advancement.   

 

If you eliminate the draft and give players the same rights for employment that you and I have, you will see the pay get competitive real quick especially in consideration of the high demand for highly skilled talent when the reality is that it takes highly skilled talent to even be considered and highly skilled talent is routinely tossed aside.   

 

A Shortstop 6th on the depth chart with the Blue Jays can't apply for the 2nd on the depth chart job with the Orioles that he is qualified for. A performing SS who is held back because of the subjective opinion of a superior can't work for someone else who may not have that opinion.  

 

These underpaid individuals who you correctly state have the option of being dentist's instead, and are choosing to pursue a major league job despite the salary structure, have no other options in their chosen profession. They must subject themselves to the system to avoid being a dentist and you are correct they do. 

 

In my opinion... they might as well cut a bunch of minor league teams because they hyper focus on a handful anyway. Low Level Draft Picks have to be extraordinary to move into consideration and High draft picks are given chance after chance even if they are striking out 3 times a game.   

 

Let independent baseball take it's place. It will if the market supports it. They can still raid the independent leagues to mine for talent rising to the top.  

 

[msukirbycarew]

The economic fact is that MLB is a monopoly that used that power to depress wages. The milb players are not represented adequately by the union. If they had their own union they could gain some power by having a monopoly on the selling of their labor. I think that the minor league player should organize their own union and I know of nothing stopping them except all the vacancies  in the NLRB.

[Riverbrian]

Lobbyists, PAC Money. Washington can be a dirty place.  

 

 

https://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2018/3/23/17152778/spending-bill-minor-league-baseball-explained-save-americas-pastime

[Richie the Rally Goat]

You are not calculating the implications of being drafted and held.

 

Walmart can't draft me and prevent me from working at Target if the job is better for me and my career advancement.

 

If you eliminate the draft and give players the same rights for employment that you and I have, you will see the pay get competitive real quick especially in consideration of the high demand for highly skilled talent when the reality is that it takes highly skilled talent to even be considered and highly skilled talent is routinely tossed aside.

 

A Shortstop 6th on the depth chart with the Blue Jays can't apply for the 2nd on the depth chart job with the Orioles that he is qualified for. A performing SS who is held back because of the subjective opinion of a superior can't work for someone else who may not have that opinion.

 

These underpaid individuals who you correctly state have the option of being dentist's instead, and are choosing to pursue a major league job despite the salary structure, have no other options in their chosen profession. They must subject themselves to the system to avoid being a dentist and you are correct they do.

 

In my opinion... they might as well cut a bunch of minor league teams because they hyper focus on a handful anyway. Low Level Draft Picks have to be extraordinary to move into consideration and High draft picks are given chance after chance even if they are striking out 3 times a game.

 

Let independent baseball take it's place. It will if the market supports it. They can still raid the independent leagues to mine for talent rising to the top.

I like independent ball too, and look forward to taking my kids to a Northwoods League team that last I heard was still being raised in my town. It’s fun! As are the Saints and all the other entrepreneurial indy teams and leagues out there cutting a niche for themself,

 

Frankly, 7-8 affiliates seems like it would stretch your coaching/development resources too thin to give all those players adequate resources. From a team and league perspective it makes sense.

 

From a market perspective some of the teams that were affiliates will thrive with a cost structure they control, and some will fail. From what I’ve read, the failure has already started in many instances.

[mlhouse]

 

You are not calculating the implications of being drafted and held.  

 

Walmart can't draft me and prevent me from working at Target if the job is better for me and my career advancement.   

 

If you eliminate the draft and give players the same rights for employment that you and I have, you will see the pay get competitive real quick especially in consideration of the high demand for highly skilled talent when the reality is that it takes highly skilled talent to even be considered and highly skilled talent is routinely tossed aside.   

 

A Shortstop 6th on the depth chart with the Blue Jays can't apply for the 2nd on the depth chart job with the Orioles that he is qualified for. A performing SS who is held back because of the subjective opinion of a superior can't work for someone else who may not have that opinion.  

 

These underpaid individuals who you correctly state have the option of being dentist's instead, and are choosing to pursue a major league job despite the salary structure, have no other options in their chosen profession. They must subject themselves to the system to avoid being a dentist and you are correct they do. 

 

In my opinion... they might as well cut a bunch of minor league teams because they hyper focus on a handful anyway. Low Level Draft Picks have to be extraordinary to move into consideration and High draft picks are given chance after chance even if they are striking out 3 times a game.   

 

Let independent baseball take it's place. It will if the market supports it. They can still raid the independent leagues to mine for talent rising to the top.  

 

First, you are ignoring the fact that for many of the drafted players their signing bonus is the vast bulk of their intitial years compensation and this figure is still negotiated. Should Blayne Enlow be complaining about his "minimum wage job" while he is looking at the balance in his account after his $2 million signing bonus was deposited?  Please.

 

Second, the MLB player unlike every other sport has at least three chances of being draft and perhaps 4.  If they do not like their draft slot they can reenter the draft again.

Third,  major league baseball and other professional sports are no different in these compensation issues as any other entry level worker with pay structures defined by collective bargaining agreements or even just a structured compensation system.  If your job is "Mail Room Clerk I" at General Mills (my job when I was in college) your compensation to start is $X.  If you don't want $X and think you deserve more, they will politely tell you to **** off and hire the next candidate. 

 

Fourth,  the claim that mysterious "monopoly powers" exist is incorrect with respect to players salaries.  The main reason why it is incorrect is what was mentioned above, the MLB CBA.  And like just about every professional sport CBA, the main power driving these agreements are the middling level veteran player.  The players that benefit the least from the labor agreements are the entry level players and star players.  Otherwise, in every sport the star players  Mike Trouts, LeBron James, and Tom Bradys would be paid a LOT, LOT, LOT more and the Marwin Gonzales' a LOT LOT LOT less.   It is the star players and really only the star players that generate revenue.  The other players are just along for the ride because the entertainment needs 9 players on the field for baseball to be played.  Without a CBA Mike Trout would be paid $50 million a season and most of his teammates less than $1 million.  

 

The middling veteran players understand this and they have the votes to get what they want.  The star players just have their own vote, and entry level players no votes.  

 

Fifth, again, you cannot be "exploited" if you have choices. Jewish labor in the concentration camp was exploited.  A minor league baseball player is not.  Even the guy drafted in the 38th round has a choice to play professional baseball or to pursue other pursuits.  One of those pursuits could be to go to college or play their senior year if they still have draft options.  Or they could finish their degree or if they finished go find a job in the labor market.  Or they can go home and play video games in their parents basement. 

If they do not have choices, then that is not the fault of major league baseball.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

 

 

First, you are ignoring the fact that for many of the drafted players their signing bonus is the vast bulk of their intitial years compensation and this figure is still negotiated. Should Blayne Enlow be complaining about his "minimum wage job" while he is looking at the balance in his account after his $2 million signing bonus was deposited?  Please.

 

Second, the MLB player unlike every other sport has at least three chances of being draft and perhaps 4.  If they do not like their draft slot they can reenter the draft again.

Third,  major league baseball and other professional sports are no different in these compensation issues as any other entry level worker with pay structures defined by collective bargaining agreements or even just a structured compensation system.  If your job is "Mail Room Clerk I" at General Mills (my job when I was in college) your compensation to start is $X.  If you don't want $X and think you deserve more, they will politely tell you to **** off and hire the next candidate. 

 

Fourth,  the claim that mysterious "monopoly powers" exist is incorrect with respect to players salaries.  The main reason why it is incorrect is what was mentioned above, the MLB CBA.  And like just about every professional sport CBA, the main power driving these agreements are the middling level veteran player.  The players that benefit the least from the labor agreements are the entry level players and star players.  Otherwise, in every sport the star players  Mike Trouts, LeBron James, and Tom Bradys would be paid a LOT, LOT, LOT more and the Marwin Gonzales' a LOT LOT LOT less.   It is the star players and really only the star players that generate revenue.  The other players are just along for the ride because the entertainment needs 9 players on the field for baseball to be played.  Without a CBA Mike Trout would be paid $50 million a season and most of his teammates less than $1 million.  

 

The middling veteran players understand this and they have the votes to get what they want.  The star players just have their own vote, and entry level players no votes.  

 

Fifth, again, you cannot be "exploited" if you have choices. Jewish labor in the concentration camp was exploited.  A minor league baseball player is not.  Even the guy drafted in the 38th round has a choice to play professional baseball or to pursue other pursuits.  One of those pursuits could be to go to college or play their senior year if they still have draft options.  Or they could finish their degree or if they finished go find a job in the labor market.  Or they can go home and play video games in their parents basement. 

If they do not have choices, then that is not the fault of major league baseball.

 

To address your points:

 

First, no one is ignoring the bonus structure... The draft however goes 40 rounds. Most players get at most a check for $10k (pretax) that's supposed to last them the 2-4 years they need in the minors, and even the guys at the back end of the top ten are looking at checks for 100k pretax. You're right about Blane Enlow… his wages were factored into this... But for every Enlow, there's 5-10 guys who are not being paid a living wage.

 

Second, the ability to enter/renter has absolutely nothing to do with this conversation. I do find it odd that the NCAA has different rules for football vs. baseball (ok.. no I don't, it's all greed at the end of the day), but the ability to bet on yourself and re-enter at a later time doesn't change the fact that the average minor leaguer is not being given minimum wage.

 

Third, your example here dances around the fact that 30 employers along with the employee union in this case have conspired together to decide where these kids will work and how much they will be paid. We have antitrust legislation in this country to prevent exactly that. How this has gone on for as long as it has is beyond me at this point. 

 

Fourth, Brian's use of the term monopoly in this case is probably not the best term. It's anti-trust. The MLB PA is just as accountable here, and big reason is that they negotiate this with MLB, yet minor leaguers do not have a vote. MLB gets its anti-trust exemption at the MLB level b/c of the contract between major league ball players and the owners. Minor leaguers have no such representation. As such, they are being exploited.

 

Fifth, that's not true. Especially when you happen to have a skill that can potentially pay well, but the few employers that need said skill have actively conspired to keep you underpaid. Yes, they can go be a dentist. That's a false dichotomy though. It does not change the fact that the employers have conspired to decide where players will work and how much they will get paid. That has happened... whether they have a choice to leave or not does not change this.

[biggentleben]

 

Correct me if I am wrong, but don’t teams typically house minor league players in a dorm type setting? Obviously, they still have to live somewhere the rest of the year, but if you don’t have living expenses for half of the year (March through August) your money will stretch a lot farther.

No. Not even close to the situation...

[The Wise One]

Please go watch the summer bat leagues. More teams seem to be forming all of the time. The players play for free.  The owner makes the money

 

Want to try indy ball. They are salary cap leagues of somewhere around $100,000 per team. That is about $800-900 a month on average. All of these organizations are for profit. They do not exist if the players are paid a living wage. If the leagues are are held to the same standard people want to hold milb to, there will be a lot less baseball

 

[biggentleben]

 

Excellent article and research. Thanks for posting it.

Thank you. I had tough conversations with people on both sides of the issue for that piece, and it was very interesting to hear reasoning, to say the least. Certainly, I presented my point within the argument, but I'm not going to just do so without the numbers to back up my points, which was where the conversations with nay-sayers came in very handy with the structure of the piece.

[biggentleben]

 

You are actually providing the reason why not to have a short season A ball team when there is a long season A and duplicate rookie leagues. There are too few good players to go around.

Issue being that often, you don't know who the 2-5 that matter are until AA.

 

Four years ago, everyone would have told you the jewel of the monster 2016-2017 IFA class was going to be Kevin Maitan. Three years ago, most everyone in baseball assumed that the Twins signed the best guy from that class when they inked Yunior Severino after he was removed from the Braves in their IFA punishment. At this point, the only guy of that group that's reached any sort of top 100 consideration is Pirates prospect Ji-Hwan Bae, who has had off-season issues along the way to becoming a pseudo-prospect.

 

That was one of the largest international prospect hauls in recent memory under the current international rules, and four years later, none has played in AA. None has played even a full season at high-A at this point.

Minor league baseball irons out the prospects from non-prospects, but to assume that removing short-season leagues helps with that is a fairly galaxy brain line of thinking when examining the way players actually develop.

[old nurse]

 

Issue being that often, you don't know who the 2-5 that matter are until AA.

 

Four years ago, everyone would have told you the jewel of the monster 2016-2017 IFA class was going to be Kevin Maitan. Three years ago, most everyone in baseball assumed that the Twins signed the best guy from that class when they inked Yunior Severino after he was removed from the Braves in their IFA punishment. At this point, the only guy of that group that's reached any sort of top 100 consideration is Pirates prospect Ji-Hwan Bae, who has had off-season issues along the way to becoming a pseudo-prospect.

 

That was one of the largest international prospect hauls in recent memory under the current international rules, and four years later, none has played in AA. None has played even a full season at high-A at this point.

Minor league baseball irons out the prospects from non-prospects, but to assume that removing short-season leagues helps with that is a fairly galaxy brain line of thinking when examining the way players actually develop.

Here is your memory game challenge. Actually anyone can play. Name the last hitter, starting pitcher and relief pitcher other than Taylor Rodgers drafted and signed by the Twins after the 15th round of the draft that played a significant role for the Twin Spoiler alert, answer in the nest post

[old nurse]

Way back to 94 for Koskie. There is Nicki Blackburn, JC Romero ano Hildenberger. A few cups of coffee for Zach Granite and Vasequez. . Currently Sean Poppen has a chance. There you go, 25 years of drafting,  Over 600 players and you have 2 great players, 2 serviceable players and a very few bit players. It is evident long before AA who the players might be. They are the high draft picks

[big dog]

 

 

Fourth, Brian's use of the term monopoly in this case is probably not the best term. It's anti-trust. The MLB PA is just as accountable here, and big reason is that they negotiate this with MLB, yet minor leaguers do not have a vote. MLB gets its anti-trust exemption at the MLB level b/c of the contract between major league ball players and the owners. Minor leaguers have no such representation. As such, they are being exploited.

 

 

The correct term here is actually monopsony, a single buyer of an input. That buyer can control the cost of the input, in this case ballplayers. The two outside pressures are independent leagues and other professions. The players who come out of Indy leagues are few and far between, and are people who have washed out of other organizations. You could argue that is a big conspiracy, or just argue that teams only have so much time to scout and develop players and don't spend that time on the independents.

 

Because these inputs are not identical, there is some variation in how the monopsony power affects them. The top players can choose to take the college scholarship or to stay in another year. However, at some point they have to sign or quit baseball, unless you are John Elway or Bo Jackson (both of whom still only got to play for whatever baseball team held their rights).

 

You can argue that these players aren't being exploited because they could seek other jobs. Sure the could, just like I could go to the Twins' tryout camp and try to be a shortstop. Tell that to the players who come from areas where unemployment for low-skilled workers is high. Tell that to the Latin American players who would have to stay home. The belief that markets solve everything and people make free-will choices is great until you take your third economics class, unless you choose to be blind to the frequent problem of market failures, where markets don't fail to exist, but they certainly fail to be perfect.

 

 

 

[ashbury]

 

The correct term here is actually monopsony, a single buyer of an input. That buyer can control the cost of the input, in this case ballplayers.

 

[biggentleben]

 

Way back to 94 for Koskie. There is Nicki Blackburn, JC Romero ano Hildenberger. A few cups of coffee for Zach Granite and Vasequez. . Currently Sean Poppen has a chance. There you go, 25 years of drafting,  Over 600 players and you have 2 great players, 2 serviceable players and a very few bit players. It is evident long before AA who the players might be. They are the high draft picks

 

...in the case of the Twins.

 

Who had a fairly singular draft-and-develop strategy for nearly 30 years. Not the case around the league.

 

Equate a $10-15K international signing to a late draft pick. The Twins have seen a selection of those turn out as well.
 

[old nurse]

 

...in the case of the Twins.

 

Who had a fairly singular draft-and-develop strategy for nearly 30 years. Not the case around the league.

 

Equate a $10-15K international signing to a late draft pick. The Twins have seen a selection of those turn out as well.
 

The St Louis Cardinals were the best drafting team by WAR for players signed. Tommy Pham at 16 and to relief pitchers that had short careers. There were a couple more  1 and negative players  That is the best team by WAR. The outcome of looking by year would be after the 20th round or so there will be a good to great players, a couple of players that have a couple of good years, and crummy relief pitchers  600 players drafted in the last half of the draft. More than half sign. That is long odds of finding a good player.  As far as the international players go. 1. there is no talk of discontinuing or abating the dosl. 2. The players can play there until they are 22. That is the weed out time, and could continue to do so

[Riverbrian]

 

To address your points:

 

First, no one is ignoring the bonus structure... The draft however goes 40 rounds. Most players get at most a check for $10k (pretax) that's supposed to last them the 2-4 years they need in the minors, and even the guys at the back end of the top ten are looking at checks for 100k pretax. You're right about Blane Enlow… his wages were factored into this... But for every Enlow, there's 5-10 guys who are not being paid a living wage.

 

Second, the ability to enter/renter has absolutely nothing to do with this conversation. I do find it odd that the NCAA has different rules for football vs. baseball (ok.. no I don't, it's all greed at the end of the day), but the ability to bet on yourself and re-enter at a later time doesn't change the fact that the average minor leaguer is not being given minimum wage.

 

Third, your example here dances around the fact that 30 employers along with the employee union in this case have conspired together to decide where these kids will work and how much they will be paid. We have antitrust legislation in this country to prevent exactly that. How this has gone on for as long as it has is beyond me at this point. 

 

Fourth, Brian's use of the term monopoly in this case is probably not the best term. It's anti-trust. The MLB PA is just as accountable here, and big reason is that they negotiate this with MLB, yet minor leaguers do not have a vote. MLB gets its anti-trust exemption at the MLB level b/c of the contract between major league ball players and the owners. Minor leaguers have no such representation. As such, they are being exploited.

 

Fifth, that's not true. Especially when you happen to have a skill that can potentially pay well, but the few employers that need said skill have actively conspired to keep you underpaid. Yes, they can go be a dentist. That's a false dichotomy though. It does not change the fact that the employers have conspired to decide where players will work and how much they will get paid. That has happened... whether they have a choice to leave or not does not change this.

 

I never used the term "Monopoly". 

 

[ashbury]

I never used the term "Monopoly". 

 

[mlhouse]

 

To address your points:

 

First, no one is ignoring the bonus structure... The draft however goes 40 rounds. Most players get at most a check for $10k (pretax) that's supposed to last them the 2-4 years they need in the minors, and even the guys at the back end of the top ten are looking at checks for 100k pretax. You're right about Blane Enlow… his wages were factored into this... But for every Enlow, there's 5-10 guys who are not being paid a living wage.

 

Second, the ability to enter/renter has absolutely nothing to do with this conversation. I do find it odd that the NCAA has different rules for football vs. baseball (ok.. no I don't, it's all greed at the end of the day), but the ability to bet on yourself and re-enter at a later time doesn't change the fact that the average minor leaguer is not being given minimum wage.

 

Third, your example here dances around the fact that 30 employers along with the employee union in this case have conspired together to decide where these kids will work and how much they will be paid. We have antitrust legislation in this country to prevent exactly that. How this has gone on for as long as it has is beyond me at this point. 

 

Fourth, Brian's use of the term monopoly in this case is probably not the best term. It's anti-trust. The MLB PA is just as accountable here, and big reason is that they negotiate this with MLB, yet minor leaguers do not have a vote. MLB gets its anti-trust exemption at the MLB level b/c of the contract between major league ball players and the owners. Minor leaguers have no such representation. As such, they are being exploited.

 

Fifth, that's not true. Especially when you happen to have a skill that can potentially pay well, but the few employers that need said skill have actively conspired to keep you underpaid. Yes, they can go be a dentist. That's a false dichotomy though. It does not change the fact that the employers have conspired to decide where players will work and how much they will get paid. That has happened... whether they have a choice to leave or not does not change this.

 

1.  Only slaves are paid a living wage.   An employer pays a market wage.  If we really required an employer to pay a "living wage", then this would mean the employer would be responsible for making decisions about their employees lives.  How many children you have?  When you have children.  When you marry.  BS.  This is just a made up term.  An employer pays a market.  I get that this will never sink in.  If the wage an employer wants to pay is not enough for the market, the employer will not be able to acquire enough labor input.  If Major League Baseball paid too little, they would not be able to field minor league teams.  This is not the case although the overall issue of baseball talent is something MLB has to address to get more talent away from other sports.

 

2.  The ability to enter and reenter the draft is HUGE for major league baseball prospects.  This gives them major leverage to negotiate larger signing bonuses.  If I have a LSU baseball scholarship offer and you draft me, I can use that fact to get a higher offer from you.  If you don't meet that $2 million that Enlow got,  then he just goes to college and hopes that in the next draft he is eligible for he gets picked at a higher slot.

 

3.  Calling it a "conspiracy" is meaningless. The collective bargaining process is used in many industries, not just professional sports.  Entry level employees are covered by the CBA negotiated.  AS I stated, the CBA, like almost all of them, is heavily weighted in favor of the "middle class" of the union. As are all kinds of jobs that are not unionized.  Like I mentioned, the mail room at General Mills has a pay grade and you are limited to those pay rate.

 

4.  ALl of your rhetoric is meaningless.  THEY HAVE CHOICES.  Just because "YOU WANT" doesn't mean that is a viable choice.  If you are a senior college baseball player drafted in the 32nd round, you have choices.  You can sign with the team that drafted you and pursue major league baseball.  Ifyou havent finished your degree you can finish it.  If you have finished your degree you can go join the work force.  ATHLETES ARE NOT SPECIAL.