Thor done for the year

[Tomj14]

 

"So people are allowed to romanticize about prospects and how they will save the future, but you can't about a guy that in his last start pitched 7 innings gave up 5 hits, walked 2, struck out 9 and gave up 3 runs to a Braves team, got it."

That was you last post and very ironically the one I was responding to.  But in your new argument of hypothetical romantic notions, and Syndergaard as not your ace but number 2 pitcher,  how is a 4-2 loss any different than any other loss.

you do know that was all in the same post you quoted of mine?

You quoted both paragraphs, meaning you were responding to the the whole thing.

 

Then YOU said this "If you bothered to check the score of Syndergaard's last game, why didn't you look at the previous games to that?"

 

Which obviously I did, since you quoted the part of me saying that, here it is again = "if he starts game two and pitches like he did in the 4 starts prior to he last one"

 

Then you go on to say this "But in your new argument of hypothetical romantic notions, and Syndergaard as not your ace but number 2 pitcher,how is a 4-2 loss any different than any other loss."

 

Which of course I never referenced Thor as the new ace, but again congrats!

 

 

 

[The Wise One]

 

How is having Royce Lewis in high A ball helping us win a game in the playoffs?

 

And....

How do we boost our staff in season when can use another arm during the stretch run?

 

I do not expect us to go for it every single year, but we are in that window of a couple of years right now where we should.

Win as a team, lose as a team. One pitcher was not going to change the outcome of the series. Speculation that 24 other players would have played better with one more pitcher is neither provable nor entirely false.

[ewen21]

 

Win as a team, lose as a team. One pitcher was not going to change the outcome of the series. Speculation that 24 other players would have played better with one more pitcher is neither provable nor entirely false.

Again, I was on here telling people the same thing back in December when scores of posters were angry we hadn't made a splash in the off season pitching market.  The reason I thought it was a waste of time is that virtually no big time starting pitcher is worth what he gets.  In addition, our playoff losses has had more to do with the fact that this team doesn't hit in the postseason.  Period.

 

HOWEVER, when it comes to dealing prospects I am not averse to doing so if it means it will help a team that is young and has many players under team control.  This is the time I am looking into dealing for pitching.  F

 

Finally, the Twins are losing in the playoffs for a lot of reasons and I feel one big reason is that it is psychological.  The talent on the other side isn't THAT MUCH better where we lose 15 games in a row or whatever it is.  There is a loser mindset and sometimes a mid-season acquisition can set off a chain of events that benefits the team enormously.  See Shannon Stewart in 2003.  In short, holding every single prospect and trading none of them is STUPID.  Especially with this organization.

 

I cannot back your policy of HOLD PROSPECTS.  It makes zero sense say that is a good policy under every single condition.  Seems to me like the stench of Terry Ryan has clung to the fanbase a little too hard.

[The Wise One]

 

Again, I was on here telling people the same thing back in December when scores of posters were angry we hadn't made a splash in the off season pitching market.  The reason I thought it was a waste of time is that virtually no big time starting pitcher is worth what he gets.  In addition, our playoff losses has had more to do with the fact that this team doesn't hit in the postseason.  Period.

 

HOWEVER, when it comes to dealing prospects I am not averse to doing so if it means it will help a team that is young and has many players under team control.  This is the time I am looking into dealing for pitching.  F

 

Finally, the Twins are losing in the playoffs for a lot of reasons and I feel one big reason is that it is psychological.  The talent on the other side isn't THAT MUCH better where we lose 15 games in a row or whatever it is.  There is a loser mindset and sometimes a mid-season acquisition can set off a chain of events that benefits the team enormously.  See Shannon Stewart in 2003.  In short, holding every single prospect and trading none of them is STUPID.  Especially with this organization.

 

I cannot back your policy of HOLD PROSPECTS.  It makes zero sense say that is a good policy under every single condition.  Seems to me like the stench of Terry Ryan has clung to the fanbase a little too hard.

WHERE HAVE I EVER SAID HOLD PROSPECTS?  

mid season trade making a difference? Like Grienke? Shark a few years ago. Stroman propelled the Mets. Memorable when it works like Verlander, forgetable when it does not

[biggentleben]

The Twins very well may have made their reverse-Pierzynski deal last July with Sam Dyson, giving up an outfielder who could help the Giants this year, a very talented arm that projects in the middle or back of a rotation, and a lottery ticket arm in the low minors. Those are the type of prospects used to make these deals typically. Even with Greinke, you didn't see elite guys moving. It was primarily guys who were in the back half of the Astros top 10 (which wasn't a great top 10 at the time as it was) and not top 100 guys at that point. Yes, some of that was due to money involved, but the Diamondbacks ate a huge chunk of money JUST to get the guys they did.

 

The Pirates get chastised for their Archer deal, and rightly so, but they really traded guys who were on a down slope as far as prospect rankings went, and the Rays turned all of those guys around to some degree.

 

Guys like Lewis don't get moved for a pitcher. That's just something you don't do.

[old nurse]

 

The Twins very well may have made their reverse-Pierzynski deal last July with Sam Dyson, giving up an outfielder who could help the Giants this year, a very talented arm that projects in the middle or back of a rotation, and a lottery ticket arm in the low minors. Those are the type of prospects used to make these deals typically. Even with Greinke, you didn't see elite guys moving. It was primarily guys who were in the back half of the Astros top 10 (which wasn't a great top 10 at the time as it was) and not top 100 guys at that point. Yes, some of that was due to money involved, but the Diamondbacks ate a huge chunk of money JUST to get the guys they did.

 

The Pirates get chastised for their Archer deal, and rightly so, but they really traded guys who were on a down slope as far as prospect rankings went, and the Rays turned all of those guys around to some degree.

 

Guys like Lewis don't get moved for a pitcher. That's just something you don't do.

Any trade of multiple minor league players for a player can result in a bad trade. Davis certainly could help the Giants.  To help the Twins would mean something happened to  one of Buxton, Rosario or Kepler and two of Gonzales, Cave and adrianza, and as the year went on Rooker,, and the AA outfielders from last year are not developing.  Everyone should be happy for Davis he is in a position to get a shot. You say the 20 year old arms are mid to back of the rotation That would be a lower ceiling than Boof's at that age and lower than what Liriano became. All in all the trades are a very bad comp

[old nurse]

 

 

 

 

The Pirates get chastised for their Archer deal, and rightly so, but they really traded guys who were on a down slope as far as prospect rankings went, and the Rays turned all of those guys around to some degree.

 

Guys like Lewis don't get moved for a pitcher. That's just something you don't do.

Thanks for once again providing a reason for why prospect ratings are so useless.

[biggentleben]

 

Thanks for once again providing a reason for why prospect ratings are so useless.

No, I don't believe any of the three have success staying in Pittsburgh. There's a reason they were being viewed more negatively. Glasnow especially needed to get out of that system. I'm still far from sold that Baz will turn out.

[biggentleben]

 

 

Any trade of multiple minor league players for a player can result in a bad trade. Davis certainly could help the Giants.  To help the Twins would mean something happened to  one of Buxton, Rosario or Kepler and two of Gonzales, Cave and adrianza, and as the year went on Rooker,, and the AA outfielders from last year are not developing.  Everyone should be happy for Davis he is in a position to get a shot. You say the 20 year old arms are mid to back of the rotation That would be a lower ceiling than Boof's at that age and lower than what Liriano became. All in all the trades are a very bad comp

Boof's projection and Teng's projection at the time of trade I would rate as similar. Teng could absolutely become much more, and when I did a report on him last summer, I had an MLB comp that was much higher than a 4/5 guy. Berroa is a lottery ticket. Liriano was as well. You could make the argument at the time that Nathan would not have broken through the Giants bullpen and other such arguments made here, but Twins fans view that deal as highway robbery, especially in light of what the team received for giving up those players.

[ewen21]

I no longer view the AJ deal as some outrageously great deal.  Liriano was a great pitcher for us for a half of as season in 2006.  He had a strong year in 2010.  Nathan, while effective most of the year, FAILED when the bright lights shone on him.  He spit the bit with the Giants in the playoffs as well.  For as effective as he was he was not a big game closer.  If you are a closer not built to close out big games then what are you?

Seeing him pitch in Yankee Stadium was actually disturbing to watch at times with all those tics that would come out.  It was absolutely horrendous to watch and I would not call it "small sample size" or a "fluke" either.  THey dude clearly panicked in those situations and thus his value is diminished for me.

 

AJ went on the have a very solid career.  It isn't like he wasn't a solid starting catcher for literally ten years following the trade.  It turned out to be a bad trade for SF because he didn't work out there.  It was a good trade for us but not an epic fleecing to me.  Frank Robinson for Milt Pappas was a fleece job.  Lou Brock for Ernie Brolio was a fleece job.

[old nurse]

 

No, I don't believe any of the three have success staying in Pittsburgh. There's a reason they were being viewed more negatively. Glasnow especially needed to get out of that system. I'm still far from sold that Baz will turn out.

That does not matter in terms of prospect rankings.

[old nurse]

 

 

Boof's projection and Teng's projection at the time of trade I would rate as similar. Teng could absolutely become much more, and when I did a report on him last summer, I had an MLB comp that was much higher than a 4/5 guy. Berroa is a lottery ticket. Liriano was as well. You could make the argument at the time that Nathan would not have broken through the Giants bullpen and other such arguments made here, but Twins fans view that deal as highway robbery, especially in light of what the team received for giving up those players.

You can have your opinion on Bonser. At the same age as Teng he was the 29th ranked prospect whereas Teng is nowhere to be found. Liriano was coming off an injury season. Prior to that he was a top 100 prospect. To compare Teng to Bonser would then say that Berroa is comparable to Liriano. Your stated opinion seems to be that Teng and Berroa were comparable to 2 players who were ranked as top 100 prospects in all of baseball at some point before their trade.