Twins beat Berrios at arb hearing

[Shaitan]

EVERYBODY PANIC!!

[Doctor Gast]

W/ Donaldson`s negotiations, I thought he`d stay in Atlanta. I don`t know how close Atlanta`s offer was but he chose MN. because they offered the closest to what he thought he was worth. My observation is repeat all-stars tend to be proud & get their self worth from how much $ they are offered. It`s not so much about the $ but the affirmation of their worth thru $. 

 Like Berrios case it`s not about the $,I think it shows he`s not happy here, if he was he would have accepted what they offered & signed an extension

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

People, including myself once, were saying Sano wanted to play in NY and wouldn't sign. Just sayin.

Of course, that was before Sano basically had a lost season in 2018, and missed more time and ultimately played his way off third base in 2019.

 

I'm sure Berrios would re-calibrate his contract expectations if he suffers a similar fate, but we probably wouldn't want that outcome from a performance standpoint!

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I know 375K doesn't sound like much in terms of baseball salaries, but what Berrios was asking for would have been the second highest amount ever won, let alone offered, for a pitcher of his service time. The rest of the league would have flayed the Twins had they broken the mold. A mold that has remained the same and favorable to the owners for almost 15 years. 

That "record" is so weird, though.

 

Nola had the same service time last winter and MLBTR projected him at $6.6 mil, and he signed an extension which essentially paid him $6 mil for 2019 ($4 mil salary, $2 mil signing bonus).

 

Severino had *less* service time last winter (super-2) and MLBTR projected him at $5.1 mil. He actually got to the point of filing for arbitration, and would have received no less than $4.4 mil, but settled on an extension instead that again paid him $6 mil in 2019 ($4 mil salary, $2 mil bonus).

 

And that's just the two most recent examples, off the top of my head. Does the $375k gap over Berrios really matter to anyone? I think your dog-and-pony show comment was correct!

[nicksaviking]

 

That "record" is so weird, though.

 

Nola had the same service time last winter and MLBTR projected him at $6.6 mil, and he signed an extension which essentially paid him $6 mil for 2019 ($4 mil salary, $2 mil signing bonus).

 

Severino had *less* service time last winter (super-2) and MLBTR projected him at $5.1 mil. He actually got to the point of filing for arbitration, and would have received no less than $4.4 mil, but settled on an extension instead that again paid him $6 mil in 2019 ($4 mil salary, $2 mil bonus).

 

And that's just the two most recent examples, off the top of my head. Does the $375k gap over Berrios really matter to anyone? I think your dog-and-pony show comment was correct!

 

Yeah both of those guys went the extension route, which I assume we'd all like around here. Hopefully that's still on the table and as noted above, Berrios was looking to go to arbitration simply in an attempt to help out future pitchers.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Yeah both of those guys went the extension route, which I assume we'd all like around here. Hopefully that's still on the table and as noted above, Berrios was looking to go to arbitration simply in an attempt to help out future pitchers.

I think the degree to which it helps any future pitchers is getting overstated. At best, Berrios winning maybe would have made it easier for next year's Mike Clevinger to settle for $4.3 mil instead of $4.1. But frankly, if the Yankees already filed at $4.4 mil for Severino last winter, to say nothing of Nola and others, I'm not sure that future pitcher would have needed the Berrios precedent to do that anyway.

[nicksaviking]

 

I think the degree to which it helps any future pitchers is getting overstated. At best, Berrios winning maybe would have made it easier for next year's Mike Clevinger to settle for $4.3 mil instead of $4.1. But frankly, if the Yankees already filed at $4.4 mil for Severino last winter, to say nothing of Nola and others, I'm not sure that future pitcher would have needed the Berrios precedent to do that anyway.

 

Maybe, do we know if figures for Severino and/or Nola were ever disclosed? I'm not an expert on the process, but it seems to me that the dollar amounts aren't the main point of contention, the impetus for the players wanting changes is the fact that the players hardly ever win. Berrios winning arbitration while asking for what is viewed as the "ceiling" probably would have been a bigger deal than the actual dollar amount.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Maybe, do we know if figures for Severino and/or Nola were ever disclosed?

Yes for Severino. He filed at $5.25 mil, and the Yankees at $4.4 mil, before they settled on an extension last February. And Severino had less service time then (as a "super 2"), compared to Berrios now.

 

No to Nola (he signed his extension before arb figures were exchanged), but if there was enough public evidence at that time for MLBTR to give him an estimate of $6.6 mil, then I'd guess there would also be enough for future pitchers to look for $4.3 instead of $4.1 or whatever, regardless of Berrios.

[USAFChief]

The whole "precedent" rationale is weak at best. Regardless, taking Berrios to arb over$375K, whether over "precedent" or not, is still, IMO, penny wise and pound foolish.

 

 

[Rosterman]

So, going forward...do we tear this up and offer Berrios $45 for four years (including this season) and a fifth season option of how much?

[yarnivek1972]

I heard they were ready to sign a compromise but the Twins looked at his medical records and determined that he was not suited for a 250-270 inning workload.

Where did you “hear” this?

 

Last year’s MLB IP leader was Justin Verlander, with 223 IP.

 

The last time a pitcher threw more than 230 was Clayton Kershaw in 2015. The last guy over 250 was Verlander in 2011. I doubt anyone throws 230 again. Ever.

[Dantes929]

 

Where did you “hear” this?

Last year’s MLB IP leader was Justin Verlander, with 223 IP.

The last time a pitcher threw more than 230 was Clayton Kershaw in 2015. The last guy over 250 was Verlander in 2011. I doubt anyone throws 230 again. Ever.

Sorry it was a joke.    Kind of a parody of how Boston is holding up the Graterol deal after looking at his medical records and determining he might not throw 150 to 170 innings.  

[ashbury]

Boston is holding up the Graterol deal after looking at his medical records

Where did you “hear” this?

 

[jkcarew]

 

The whole "precedent" rationale is weak at best. Regardless, taking Berrios to arb over$375K, whether over "precedent" or not, is still, IMO, penny wise and pound foolish.

I'm sure all will be forgiven if the Twins make amends the next time the parties agree to sit down and talk extension. For instance, the Twins could offer, say....$60.375M over six years with a player option.

 

How can you doubt, when the FO is on such a roll?!

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Color me surprised. When was the last time the Twins went all the way to a hearing? I vaguely remember a story about Torri Hunter signing a contract literally outside the courtroom door. Maybe Garza? Or Perkins?

 

Doesn't look good for Berrios staying with the Twins past the arbitration years.

Falvine went to the Arb hearing with Gibson in their first offseason.