Boston getting cold feet - Graterol's health puts blockbuster on pause

[zwiefz]

Probably reading too much into things, but.....

 

In Nightengale's tweet he  is "citing sources from multiple teams".  I know that multiple strictly just means more than 1.  But if he were referring to just sources from the Dodgers and Red Sox he would have referred to it as 'both teams'(especially as much as the Twins have been portrayed as a third wheel in this deal).

 

So to me it seems like he still believes there are three teams.  And if it were a different third team than Minnesota that his sources identified you think he would be saying so in order to claim the scoop.

 

So that means the Twins are still in on this trade, right? 

[Otto von Ballpark]

A really good read:

 

“How baseball teams exchange medical information, and what it means for the Mookie Betts trade”

 

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/redsox/2020/02/06/how-baseball-teams-exchange-medical-information-after-agreeing-trade/Nu56T96T3GENiqQQs0amZN/story.html?outputType=amp

[Squirrel]

 

A really good read:

“How baseball teams exchange medical information, and what it means for the Mookie Betts trade”

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/redsox/2020/02/06/how-baseball-teams-exchange-medical-information-after-agreeing-trade/Nu56T96T3GENiqQQs0amZN/story.html?outputType=amp

 

Still, the bottom line for me is ... I don't think we should give any more for what we got. If Boston isn't happy with the return, based on all their medical experts' determination, then ... so what? It's not up to us to up the ante for what we received. I think we offered a fair piece for Maeda, but Boston wanting more has no bearing on us, unless we want to oblige and come up with a comparable piece ... but not in addition to Graterol, and not a top 10 piece at that. We aren't getting any more than Maeda, so why should we continue to spend to please Boston.

 

This whole thing still really reeks of someone trying to pull a fast one ... even if the discovery is above board ... why come to us? If they want more for what they gave, ask for it from the Dodgers. I think we got a fair return for what we gave. Not our problem if Boston then doesn't like it well enough.

 

I hope the Twins continue to say no and let them figure it out.

 

[Rigby]

 

Still, the bottom line for me is ... I don't think we should give any more for what we got. If Boston isn't happy with the return, based on all their medical experts' determination, then ... so what? It's not up to us to up the ante for what we received. I think we offered a fair piece for Maeda, but Boston wanting more has no bearing on us, unless we want to oblige and come up with a comparable piece ... but not in addition to Graterol, and not a top 10 piece at that. We aren't getting any more than Maeda, so why should we continue to spend to please Boston.

 

This whole thing still really reeks of someone trying to pull a fast one ... even if the discovery is above board ... why come to us? If they want more for what they gave, ask for it from the Dodgers. I think we got a fair return for what we gave. Not our problem if Boston then doesn't like it well enough.

 

I hope the Twins continue to say no and let them figure it out.

 

I would agree for the most part (the lone exception being I would not have offered Graterol for Maeda without additional LA compensation). 

 

I still am shocked that Friedman obtains Betts and Price (at a conjectured 15-16M/yr.) for an unnecessary outfielder with rumored character issues and an average 32 year old pitcher - while not touching his vaunted farm system. 

 

If you want to be one of the big boys you have to act like one. No additional compensation.

[Dman]

 

A really good read:

“How baseball teams exchange medical information, and what it means for the Mookie Betts trade”

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/redsox/2020/02/06/how-baseball-teams-exchange-medical-information-after-agreeing-trade/Nu56T96T3GENiqQQs0amZN/story.html?outputType=amp

 

Player evaluation is really hard.  There is a lot of information I don't have when making my passionate rants.  I am really battling myself on this one.  Part of me really wants Maeda even if the price hurts and the other side wants to just walk away and let another team pay the price.  I will probably be disappointed with either outcome.  

[bighat]

"Hearing that the Mookie Betts/David Price blockbuster trade is finally official. Congratulations, #Dodgers fans!"

 

@danclarksports

[Dman]

 

Still, the bottom line for me is ... I don't think we should give any more for what we got. If Boston isn't happy with the return, based on all their medical experts' determination, then ... so what? It's not up to us to up the ante for what we received. I think we offered a fair piece for Maeda, but Boston wanting more has no bearing on us, unless we want to oblige and come up with a comparable piece ... but not in addition to Graterol, and not a top 10 piece at that. We aren't getting any more than Maeda, so why should we continue to spend to please Boston.

 

This whole thing still really reeks of someone trying to pull a fast one ... even if the discovery is above board ... why come to us? If they want more for what they gave, ask for it from the Dodgers. I think we got a fair return for what we gave. Not our problem if Boston then doesn't like it well enough.

 

I hope the Twins continue to say no and let them figure it out.

 

While I agree with you for the most part it probably depends on how the trade was structured.  Maybe the Doggers traded Maeda and Verdugo to Boston with the understanding that whatever they got for Madea they would send to Boston.  In that case then Boston has to be happy with what MN gave and if not would need to deal with MN to get what they want.  They were satified with Graterol to start with.  The changed their mind.

 

The Dodgers are already giving up Verdugo who is a very good outfileder as it is.  Probably as good as Larnach will be whenever he is ready.  The are giving up 5 years of control of Verdugo and taking on 30M in salary for Betts.  To top it off they are taking on another 15M in salary and have to take Price in the deal.  For the Dodgers to stay under the cap they have to salary dump one of their players and to get rid of him they needed to add another player to the deal.  All to get 1 year of Mookie Betts.  That would be more than I would be willing to give in that scenario.  I would not be adding anything else in as they are litterally saving Boston from all the bad decisions they made in the past and giving them a very good replacement for what they have lost.

 

Whatever return they got from MN for Maeda should have been gravy.  To get a top 100 prospect that throws 100 is another very good get and again they are getting all of this for just 1 year of Mookie Betts.  While I don't understand prospect value the way FO's do if that isn't enough for Maeda I would say I am out.  I know Maeda has a fantastic contract and really fits with what the Twins are trying to do but he is also 32 with an injury past as well thus his structured contract.  How many more bullets are in that arm.  Getting 4 years out of him seems unlikely, certainly Possible but unlikely.  So the Twins have injury risk just like Boston with Graterol.  Who is protectiing us in this deal?

 

If they want the Twins to throw in Raley or Jax or both fine but to go top 10 just make sense to me unless you don't really want this deal to happen.

[tvagle]

How's this for stoking the fires....

[Dr. Beanpole]

Dodgers have all the pressure to get this deal done, I hope they're the ones footing the bill to get Boston on board. If we get to keep Graterol instead of Maeda that's just fine with me. Dodgers can't afford to go back on it now, make them fix the deal. Somebody said it earlier, for them to get Mookie without trading an actual prospect is borderline robbery anyways.

[Ebby Calvin Laloosh]

Tell BOS to go pound sand. What's to stop teams from doing this every trade? Next time the Twins make a deal with BOS (I hope it never happens) the FO should make the handshake deal, wait two days then ask for more...everytime. It just seems like such bush league garage to me.

 

Does anyone know if three team deals like this are actually three team deals or is it two independent deals? Lots of comments about how we traded Graterol to LA, not BOS so who cares what BOS wants. That was the first thing I thought of when I saw BOS hesitating but I get the feeling that's not really how it works.

[Drew]

 

"Hearing that the Mookie Betts/David Price blockbuster trade is finally official. Congratulations, #Dodgers fans!"

 

@danclarksports

 

This guy is often full of nonsense, apparently. 

[Bob Sacamento]

The Dodgers can easily walk this back and be fine, they already are the favorites in the NL West.  They are eating half of Price's contract for three years all to rent Betts for a year because they're likely not resigning him.  This is looking like chicken between the Twins and Red Sox at this point, Maeda immediately makes the Twins viable and gives them a veteran arm with playoff experience who can swing easily as a SP or high leverage RP.  My bet is the Twins throw a 10-20# prospect to get this done.

 

Baseball America did a breakdown of Graterol and guys like him (young pitchers with questions either of health, relief or provenness #55-65) in the #60 overall top 100 spot from 2010-2017 and it was a pretty impressive list:

 

Sonny Gray

Marcus Stroman

Drew Pomeranz

Eduardo Rodriguez

Zach Wheeler

Raisel Igeliesas

Zach Britton

 

But then you also had

 

Taylor Guerreri

Brody Colvin

AJ Cole

Aaron Blair

Braden Shipley

Zach Lee

[dex8425]

I'm glad I don't have Derek or Thad's job today. I have a feeling the trade goes through without the Twins involved. 

 

Please, do not give up another top prospect in addition to Graterol. 

[dex8425]

 

 

 

The Dodgers are already giving up Verdugo who is a very good outfileder as it is.  Probably as good as Larnach will be whenever he is ready.  

Really? I would think Verdugo is better as he is a five tool player who plays center and Larnach is a bat first corner OF, but Larnach doesn't have the off field issues that Verdugo has. Nobody seems to be mentioning the sexual assault incident that happened last February. 

[AZTwin]

Read that Boston wanted an additional Top 10 prospect AND Graterol.  If true, they can take a hike.  You dont get to pull that crap and then say you still want Graterol included.  Graterol was more than fair for Maeda.  If they want a guy like Lewis Thorpe and Luke Raley, then I think that would be fair as well but no way do you get those guys plus Graterol

[Bob Sacamento]

 

Really? I would think Verdugo is better as he is a five tool player who plays center and Larnach is a bat first corner OF, but Larnach doesn't have the off field issues that Verdugo has. Nobody seems to be mentioning the sexual assault incident that happened last February. 

It's arguable between the two, Verdugo's hit tool and stroke are better while Larnach has the advantage in power while they both have plus advanced approaches at the plate.  The dividing point between the two is Verdugo runs better routes in the outfield, can play center, and has a better arm.  The comps that Verdugo gets frequently are Andrew Benintendi and Nick Markakis.

[akmanak]

Boston looks like an absolute joke. This isnt fantasy baseball. Did they simply not do any research? I mean come on.

[Squirrel]

The latest from MLB Trade Rumors:

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

 

Boston is really not acting well in this at all.

 

[Dman]

 

The latest from MLB Trade Rumors:

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

 

Boston is really not acting well in this at all.

 

I agree Boras states in there that their medical eval is pretty much a joke.  They are just doing this because they are taking it in the shorts from their fans and the Boston Media.  I am glad someone is finally calling them out.  This is not a good first look for Bloom at all.  What a disaster all the way around.  Either take the deal as it stands or say no deal.

[bighat]

 

This guy is often full of nonsense, apparently. 

Yeah, I had no idea. Sorry about spreading fake news, it was not my intention, just was scouring Twitter for any signs!

[dex8425]

This is making me, as a Twins fan with no personal relation to any GM or players, pretty miffed. I have no idea how Graterol, Betts, the Angels Org, Kenta Maeda, etc. feel. Pretty terrible that the Red Sox seem to be putting all these players and the organizations in flux the week before pitchers and catchers report to ST. I mean, Maeda probably had plans for next week already. 

[dex8425]

 

It's arguable between the two, Verdugo's hit tool and stroke are better while Larnach has the advantage in power while they both have plus advanced approaches at the plate.  The dividing point between the two is Verdugo runs better routes in the outfield, can play center, and has a better arm.  The comps that Verdugo gets frequently are Andrew Benintendi and Nick Markakis.

Oof. Benintendi is not a great defensive outfielder. I guess it's fair then. Larnach's bat seems like Rosario plus plate discipline. 

[jkcarew]

Tick tock...tick tock.

 

My bet at this point is that the Dodgers step up to save their deal(s) by offering more to the Red Sox...and the Twins are out of the deal. Maeda (or more likely other pieces) go to the Red Sox from the Dodgers, and the Twins are on the outside looking in. Better than overpaying...but disappointing relative to where we thought we were 48 hours ago.

[twins_89]

There are two outcomes I'd be ok with: 1) getting Graterol back, or 2) leaving the Twins part of the deal as originally defined. Adding any additional value would be a massive mistake.

[jkcarew]

 

Really? I would think Verdugo is better as he is a five tool player who plays center and Larnach is a bat first corner OF, but Larnach doesn't have the off field issues that Verdugo has. Nobody seems to be mentioning the sexual assault incident that happened last February.

That's because it shouldn't be mentioned. For one thing, it didn't happen last February, it happened in 2015, when Verdugo was 19 years old, and the incident became more widely known as Verdugo got closer and closer to being a major league player. Funny how that happens. The allegations are that he was at a house where a sexual assault occurred, not having participated in the assault. Bottom line, it doesn't play a part in this story. I don't think any of us expect that major league teams would or should conspire to blackball players for incidents that didn't result in even charges being brought.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I would agree for the most part (the lone exception being I would not have offered Graterol for Maeda without additional LA compensation). 

 

I still am shocked that Friedman obtains Betts and Price (at a conjectured 15-16M/yr.) for an unnecessary outfielder with rumored character issues and an average 32 year old pitcher - while not touching his vaunted farm system. 

 

If you want to be one of the big boys you have to act like one. No additional compensation.

Absolutely. In a vaccum, Maeda vs. a $16m/yr Price aren't *that* different. It's close to a wash, with Maeda being marginally more valuable because of the lower risk, something that doesn't matter all that much to the Dodgers in the first place.

 

So that means the Dodgers are essentially getting Betts for a not-great prospect.

 

If someone has to pay more, it *has* to be LA.

[AZTwin]

Don’t know if it’s true or not but I’m seeing claims that Balazovic is replacing Graterol in the deal. If true, we should be the team getting Betts. Unreal price... far too much for Maeda. Horrible trade

[Dman]

 

Absolutely. In a vaccum, Maeda vs. a $16m/yr Price aren't *that* different. It's close to a wash, with Maeda being marginally more valuable because of the lower risk, something that doesn't matter all that much to the Dodgers in the first place.

 

So that means the Dodgers are essentially getting Betts for a not-great prospect.

 

If someone has to pay more, it *has* to be LA.

 

This is Friedman we are talking he never overpays and never gives up a top three prospect but I am sure he expects the Twins to do it.

[Dman]

 

Don’t know if it’s true or not but I’m seeing claims that Balazovic is replacing Graterol in the deal. If true, we should be the team getting Betts. Unreal price... far too much for Maeda. Horrible trade

 

If that is the case they should have just walked away.  He is the only pitcher with top of the rotation upside beyond Duran.  Paying that for an old pitcher just seems wrong to me.

[Squirrel]

Don’t know if it’s true or not but I’m seeing claims that Balazovic is replacing Graterol in the deal. If true, we should be the team getting Betts. Unreal price... far too much for Maeda. Horrible trade

Where are you seeing this? That’s a total fleece if true. No way I trade Balazovic for Maeda. No way.