What others are saying about the trade

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I don't know....it's pretty much a rounding error after this year.....and Zips has him MUCH better this year. If he was in MN, he'd be in teh bullpen, we already know that. So, I'd go with bullpen estimates for his value to this team.

ZiPS doesn't really have Maeda as "MUCH better this year", though. The difference seems to be almost entirely in their role. And while the Twins were looking to begin Graterol's season in the pen, they didn't necessarily have to (or have to keep him there all season).

 

And a rounding error after this year would seem to favor the younger, cheaper, more controlled player, correct?

 

Again, I'm not opposed to the deal. And it should be interesting to watch unfold!

[tarheeltwinsfan]

 

I like the side discussion.  I loved the Sporting News and even visited their office in St Louis.  At one time they and Sports Illustrated were really the sources.  Now TSN has really disappeared and SI has a much lower profile and ESPN came out with their magazine (I really disliked the ESPN glossy).  Today we turn more to sources like TD, the Athletic, and Bleacher Reports.  After their way to ambitious expansion I think ESPN is loosing its spot too. 

 

Thanks for the diversion.

To paraphrase Will Rogers: "All I know about, I read in Twins Daily".

[terrydactyls]

MLB Network on SiriusXM was discussing the trade this morning. Their feeling was that the Twins were clear winners because of Gaterol's shortcomings. They listed the shortcomings as A) a 100 MPH fastball without much movement; a mediocre changeup; and C) no reliable breaking pitches. They doubted he would ever be a starter and he might prove to be a hittable fastball only reliever. They also thought Maetta would be a top 3 pitcher for the Twins and cheap for the next four years which will allow room for other moves. Remember, that's what they said so don't b*#tch at me.

[rico7961]

I remember names like Eddie Bane, Willie Banks, Pat Mahomes, Adam Johnson. ALL, prospects who at one time were rated HIGHER than Graterol is right now. The Twins NEVER traded ANY of them hoping for eventual stardom. IT NEVER HAPPENED. So, any prospect trade is a GAMBLE, but in this case I think a worthy one. 

[PDX Twin]

 

I remember names like Eddie Bane, Willie Banks, Pat Mahomes, Adam Johnson. ALL, prospects who at one time were rated HIGHER than Graterol is right now. The Twins NEVER traded ANY of them hoping for eventual stardom. IT NEVER HAPPENED. So, any prospect trade is a GAMBLE, but in this case I think a worthy one. 

 

But maybe Graterol's son wins the Super Bowl some day!

[USAFChief]

 

 

"I pahked the cah in Havahd Yahd and when I turned on the radio I listened to some guy talking about how we traded Mookster for Buster Gatorade"

 

 

Ah, that's "Bustah," friend.

 

"Bustah Gatorade."

[Darius]

This probably isn’t saying a whole lot, not sure. But, word is that Graterol is now the Red Sox #1 overall prospect per MLB pipeline (per Locked on Twins podcast).

[Squirrel]

 

This probably isn’t saying a whole lot, not sure. But, word is that Graterol is now the Red Sox #1 overall prospect per MLB pipeline (per Locked on Twins podcast).

 

I don't think Boston's farm is rated that high? 

 

Checked ... nope ... it's one of the lowest.

[HawkeyeDodger]

Hi Guys.  I've always like your site.  I thought I would give you the low down on Maeda.  His contract is structured the way it is because there was an issue with his elbow in his medicals when he came over from Japan.  Kenta wanted to be a Dodgers and bet on himself so he took $3 million a year for 8 years with a lot of incentives built in based on innings and starts.  He's always taken the ball, never had a real injury issue and has made at least $8 million a year depending on when the Dodgers moved him to the pen.  They moved him earlier last year than 2017.  

~

The Dodgers would move him to the pen because he was their #5 starter and his slider is just filthy against RH hitters.  He should help the Twins against the RH hitters the Yankees have.  Kenta rarely has consecutive bad starts and at times looks like a #3 starter.  However, he nibbles too much and often is out of gas around the 5th inning because of it.  He doesn't trust his fastball and gets hit hard vs lefties.  He does have a good change-up that is successful vs lefties.  He's also got a good splitter.  The inability to trust his fastball as a starter has been a problem that's frustrated management.  You will often see him in 2-0 counts throw a get me over curveball to get back into the count.   His fastball plays up tremendously from the pen and his slider was devastating to RH hitters when he could just let the fastball go and pair it with his slider.  When that slider is on he will have great starts and make teams look silly.  Usually lower level teams though.  To me he's a 3 or 4 for most teams.  

~

He didn't complain and moved to the pen the last two years but he did let it be known this off-season that he wasn't happy about it and wanted to start in the playoffs. He thinks of being moved to the pen as being dishonored.  Andrew Freidman's response was pitch better then especially vs lefties.  The Dodgers promised Wood a starting spot.  They were already planning on putting Urias in the rotation finally.  So Kenta would have been competing with May, Gonsolin, Stripling, and Nelson for the 5th spot even before adding Price.

~

The Dodgers always did the right thing by him financially, If he came up just short of an incentive they would pay him.  They offered to re-structure his contract this past off-season to protect him if he got moved to the pen.  He and his agent declined.  Rather than having a unhappy camper it was time to move Kenta.  I hope he helps you guys beat the Yankees.  BTW, Rich Hill will be missed tremendously by the fans and his teammates.  He was definitely one of the leaders in the clubhouse.  If a rookie came up and wasn't handling his business as a professional he would let them have it.  Verdugo got lit up by him two years ago and it made a big impact on Alex.  Hill was beloved as a team Dad and is absolutely someone you can trust in a big game.  Opponents rarely see guys like Hill take the mound.  He's going to give up a dinger just about every game.  You just have to hope he hasn't walked anyone leading up to it.  Sorry, if this is in the wrong thread.

[HawkeyeDodger]

 

I don't think Boston's farm is rated that high? 

It's terrible.

[Squirrel]

 

It's terrible.

 

Yeah ... I just edited my post after checking ... they have the lowest ranked farm.

[Big John]

 

 

 

(Admittedly it's more valuable for a young position players, as pitchers are harder to project.)

 

Right on, for Pitchers there's very little reason to manipulate service time, as there's no telling how many pitches there are going to be in any given arm.  If he's ready to get major league hitters out, you may as well use him.  Unless you're in a FULL ON tank and rebuild like the Tigers or something.

[Dantes929]

 

I remember names like Eddie Bane, Willie Banks, Pat Mahomes, Adam Johnson. ALL, prospects who at one time were rated HIGHER than Graterol is right now. The Twins NEVER traded ANY of them hoping for eventual stardom. IT NEVER HAPPENED. So, any prospect trade is a GAMBLE, but in this case I think a worthy one. 

Garza, Lohse, Santana, Liriano, Hendriks, Pressley, Berrios, Rogers, Duffey.    Those are all prospects that were ranked pretty high at one point and either panned out for us or we cut bait on and were successful elsewhere.    Hernandez, Milone, Hughes, Pelfrey, Correia,  Nolasco, Lynn are some mid rotation guys that didn't do so well for us.   Yes, I know some of these were free agents but the point is the same and the conclusion is the same as yours.   Neither veterans or prospects are guarantees.   I was pretty high on Graterol but   could easily see him being more of a Joel Zumaya type guy rather than a good starter.    I get why the Twins made the trade and am not going to whine about it.  I hope you, Chief and Vanimal can use this trade as a reason to trade prospects in the future rather than me being able to point to it as a reason not to trade prospects in the future.    I figure the odds are about even.  I hope Maeda does great.

[Dantes929]

One thing to consider though I know he doesn't want it is that Maeda might be better out of the pen than as a starter and might be better out of the pen than Graterol, at least at this point in time.    This might be relevant if Berrios, Odo, Pineda, Hill and Dobnak, or whoever is doing great at some point in the season.   Not all pitchers have that versatility..   

[Blake]

The Twins made an unexpected splash.

 

The FO has long known one has to trade quality in order to get quality.

 

The FO gave up a bullpen guy for a starter.

 

Now, let's see what happens when Wes Johnson starts working with Maeda. 

 

It officially has become an off-season to remember for the Twins.

[HawkeyeDodger]

Short version of my earlier post.  When Kenta attacks he's pretty good.  When he nibbles and is afraid to throw pitches, he's not.  Good Kenta will give you 6-7 strong innings.  Bad Kenta will get gassed in the 4th and 5th trying to get through high pitch innings.  The team should also enjoy his interpreter named Will.  He's a character.  I recall him dressing up for a dead lift contest in the clubhouse.  Kenta is often playing practical jokes on him too thought get caught on video.

 

Oh yeah, Kenta has historically been better the first half of the season which has also led to his move to the pen.

[rukavina]

 

The team should also enjoy his interpreter named Will.  He's a character.  I recall him dressing up for a dead lift contest in the clubhouse.  Kenta is often playing practical jokes on him too thought get caught on video.

 

 

Sounds like Kato.

[jud6312]

I love that so many people have convinced themselves that after 15+ years Rich Hill is going to be healthy enough to make an impact. That takes WAY more faith than those of us that believe Graterol is going to be good.

[TCali Bear]

There is only one measure of any meaning to this trade...who will offer a better chance of beating the Yankees? For that is the Twins obstacle to another ring.

Graterol, if he can stay healthy, has closer written all over him. But, unless he develops a major league changeup, he would likely have limited success starting against NY. While Maeda is the consummate Japanese ace- crafty, confusing, and a guy whose stuff misses barrels. The exact type pitcher that confounds power hitters.

My take is that the Twins see Maeda as a starter than can baffle a new league and maybe even New York.

[howieramone2]

Low risk, high reward. MLBTR, MLB.com, and FanGraphs all liked the move for Hill. I'll let them know you didn't.

[PDX Twin]

 

There is only one measure of any meaning to this trade...who will offer a better chance of beating the Yankees? For that is the Twins obstacle to another ring.

 

Aren't we getting ahead of ourselves? We have to beat the Indians and the White Sox enough times to get a chance at the Yankees. We had a bunch of players having career years last year. Some will not replicate that this year. I think on paper we have the best roster in the division, but games aren't played on paper...

[IndianaTwin]

 

My dad, being an extremely wise man, knew reading and comprehending was a big deal, and seeing that I loved baseball, got me a subscription to the SN when I was in 8th grade (back when the SN was 90% baseball with 1-2 page coverage of every team, every week).  I devoured it and he probably just sat back and smiled.

 

I don’t remember the particulars, but it seems to me that if you sent a quarter and a couple proof of purchases from Hostess products, you could get three issues of TSN or something. This at a time when Hostess products had three baseball cards on the bottom.

 

When I’d go grocery shopping with Mom, she’d let me sort through the Twinkie, Ding Dong, and Ho-Ho boxes to look for the best trio of cards, while she’d get the rest of the stuff. It was major win for us all. I got the cards, I got the TSN, I got the Ding Dongs, and she got to shop in peace.

 

Life was good.  

[nicksaviking]

 

Garza, Lohse, Santana, Liriano, Hendriks, Pressley, Berrios, Rogers, Duffey. Those are all prospects that were ranked pretty high at one point and either panned out for us or we cut bait on and were successful elsewhere.  

 

Actually, Lohse, Santana, Hendriks, Pressley, Rogers and Duffey were never ranked, let alone highly ranked. 

 

I think your list actually supports the notion that finding stud pitchers from the masses of the un-ranked minor leaguers isn't much more significantly unlikely as finding them among the ranked prospects.

[nicksaviking]

 

I love that so many people have convinced themselves that after 15+ years Rich Hill is going to be healthy enough to make an impact. That takes WAY more faith than those of us that believe Graterol is going to be good.

 

Rich Hill hasn't made an impact for the Dodgers each of the that last four years? 

 

I'd guess that's news to them.

[howieramone2]

A wise man named Andy MacPhail, once said.....pitching is a numbers game.

[Squirrel]

Rich Hill hasn't made an impact for the Dodgers each of the that last four years?

 

I'd guess that's news to them.

Yeah, but his recovery is a concern if you read heezy’s comment on what Hill is recouping from and his skepticism he’ll be able to come back and be effective.

[Dantes929]

 

Actually, Lohse, Santana, Hendriks, Pressley, Rogers and Duffey were never ranked, let alone highly ranked. 

 

I think your list actually supports the notion that finding stud pitchers from the masses of the un-ranked minor leaguers isn't much more significantly unlikely as finding them among the ranked prospects.

Yep.   Didn't read the premise well.   Of course we don't know trading those prospects would have netted us anything worthwhile either.    I don't remember Johnson but if we are going back as far as Banks and Banes I can counter with Viola and Blyleven who I am just guessing were pretty highly rated.

[GP830]

I'm wondering if at any point the Twins looked at the entirety of the deal and thought about offering Brusdar and a stud outfielder for Mookie and Price. Seems like a huge win now move for minimal prospect collateral. 

[howieramone2]

 

I'm wondering if at any point the Twins looked at the entirety of the deal and thought about offering Brusdar and a stud outfielder for Mookie and Price. Seems like a huge win now move for minimal prospect collateral. 

I can guarantee you they never did. Mookie is 27M and Price is 3 years for 96M. Our benevolent owner is not going to stroke the pen for another 50M or so.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I'm wondering if at any point the Twins looked at the entirety of the deal and thought about offering Brusdar and a stud outfielder for Mookie and Price. Seems like a huge win now move for minimal prospect collateral. 

But a huge cash outlay. The Dodgers are still on the hook for $27 mil for Betts this year, and $16 mil a year for Price. You would have had to forgo the win-now move of signing Donaldson, at least, and still wound up with a higher payroll than where we currently sit.