Front Page: FEINSAND: Twins to Sign Josh Donaldson

[bobs]

Know who's really going to like this move?  Homer Bailey!!

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Concur.

But...

This is way better than not signing Donaldson. He is a legitimate impact player, and helps both the lineup and the defense. 150 games would be a real upgrade.

Without a doubt. I am not complaining about the signing even a little bit.

[bird]

 

Hate to be that guy, but this is just more proof that the Pohlads are cheap, cheap, cheap!!1!

He wanted $110 and they only gave him $92.

 

 

Yep. Another $18M lining Jim Pohlad's protected pocket.

[terrydactyls]

Trevor Storey and Jon Gray both have one year contracts (I believe) and the Rockies may not be able to retain the. So trade Lewis, Rosario, Polanco, Thorpe, and Enlow for both and extend them!!!!

[DocBauer]

What’s funny is the reports of the Twins making an $80-$85mm offer, and also a $100mm offer...were both accurate!

Always thought the $80-85M was low. Figured and stated, I felt it was closer to $88-92 to fit in the parameters of what he had been making. Unless, of course, they did as I suggested the other day and up their offer some and tell Donaldson that was it. If they did do that, then I want some sort of consultant fee. Lol

[James]

All I have to say is... Cheap Pohlads. They should have given him 93M (101M) with the option.

 

[cardsfan]

The Twins are still going to be better than the Cards without Donaldson and *much* better than the Cards with him.

 

I'm not sure why you continue to crap on this fan forum. Do you honestly have nothing better to do?

 

For the record, I supported you in the past but you've descended into being little more than a troll. Either right the ship or go find another place to post.

I'm not trolling. If this was Rendon I would say wow.

 

I'm concerned now what Colorado wants for Arenado. 7 years on a huge contract and they will want a couple of young starters while the Cards end up getting a player who hits .265 lifetime outside Colorado lifetime. Oh, he might have a couple good years, but, not at expense of starting pitching.

 

Look up the history of calf injuries.

[Kirbek]

Let it rain.  Get in a position to buy at the deadline, and add some Astros/Red Sox pitchers.

 

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I'm not trolling. If this was Rendon I would say wow.

I'm concerned now what Colorado wants for Arenado. 7 years on a huge contract and they will want a couple of young starters while the Cards end up getting a player who hits .265 lifetime outside Colorado lifetime. Oh, he might have a couple good years, but, not at expense of starting pitching.

Look up the history of calf injuries.

Anthony Rendon just signed a $245m deal, Josh Donaldson just signed a $92m deal.

 

Yeah, there's more risk in Donaldson because he's older RIGHT NOW but that Rendon deal also carries as much, if not more, risk.

 

Since he won an MVP, Donaldson has played this many games per season:

155

113

52

155

 

Yeah, he's an injury risk because he's older. That's why he didn't get $150m. Personally, I'll take an average of 120 games from Donaldson and be just fine with it, never mind that Cruz is off the team next season and Donaldson could easily slide into a DH role for the final years of his deal.

 

My point is: don't crap on a deal for no real reason, especially given your personal posting history (which you obviously displayed in your bias about how this affects the Cards, which has **** all to do with this forum or its fans).

[ewen21]

I have argued against getting Donaldson, but I like Donaldson.  I was skeptical about the process because I thought he was using us to push up Atlanta's offer.  In the long run he needed an American League option because a National League team cannot offer a DH spot. .  I think the Twins had the best offer on the table for quite some time and he took it.  I really feel good about it even if I talked about the risks quite a bit lately.  I believe this is a good move in that Donaldson and Crus are the right kind of veteran for young players to be around.  From this perspective the move is excellent

 

I don't think anyone has the right to complain about the rosters we've put out the last couple of years.  It isn't perfect, but it is a heck of a lot better than the Terry Ryan years!

[DocBauer]

This may or not be the time and place to bring this up...probably will end up being a OP brought up...but does the Donaldson change opinions on a SP move?

 

I mean, for the most part, this team is BUILT! Bailey helps. Hill is a bit of a flier, but a potential 2nd half acquisition ahead of time who could pay big dividends. And there are some njce young arms to audition early, who could also pay dividends this year and going forward. But for the first month or so, there remains a potential hole in the rotation.

 

Are you now more in on a move for someone like Price with $ exchanged and a couple lower prosoects? More inclined for additional prospect capital for Ray, Gray or maybe a youngster with promise like Alcantara? Or what about the rumored smaller deal of Cave for Hernandez from Miami?

 

Does this change your opinion on what we need and what the FO seems to be doing and building?

[RaoulDuke]

 

To be clear, personally I don't believe this makes the offseason a success. I'm impressed the front office went out and got Donaldson but the clear need here was pitching, and they missed. Then they missed. And they missed again. Continue for a few more refrains.

 

But I'm very happy about this signing because, in the regular season, runs are runs. Over 162 games, he who scores the most runs wins. A lot. The Twins are poised to do that and without crazy injuries or mishaps, they should pretty easily cruise to an ALC championship.

 

But how does Berrios align against Cole in game one of a postseason series? How does Odorizzi align against Grienke in game two of a postseason series? How does Pineda... well, you get the point.

 

And that's the real problem, isn't it? The White Sox are improved but are unlikely to challenge for the Central this season. Cleveland is unlikely to challenge much of anything, which makes me wonder what they're doing over there, anyway.

 

So, while attempting to lock down the ALC is a fine move, one I applaud, I have seen exactly zero movement on what I'm actually concerned about going forward.

Well put.

 

They missed on free agent starters and won the gamble to still get an impact player with Donaldson.  Kudos for getting someone but Donaldson was probably about plan D.  That being said Donaldson is a better, more proven, more consistent player in regards to 3rd basemen than Wheeler/ Ryu/ Bumgarner are as pitchers.

 

The chips are pushed in they need to go trade for a starter now.  If they can get a real top of the rotation guy, that combined with Donaldson might be the biggest improvement that could have realistically happened.

 

 

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Well put.

 

They missed on free agent starters and won the gamble to still get an impact player with Donaldson.  Kudos for getting someone but Donaldson was probably about plan D.  That being said Donaldson is a better, more proven, more consistent player in regards to 3rd basemen than Wheeler/ Ryu/ Bumgarner are as pitchers.

 

The chips are pushed in they need to go trade for a starter now.  If they can get a real top of the rotation guy, that combined with Donaldson might be the biggest improvement that could have realistically happened.

I still think Wheeler was a good get but not at the price he would have demanded to come to Minnesota (maybe $140m?). 

 

In replacement of that, trading some of the farm and getting a good starter + Donaldson is probably the best outcome we could have possibly hoped for given how this offseason unraveled.

 

But now they have to go get that starter, which is a pretty big ask.

[tony&rodney]

A trade for a legitimate starter would be surprising at this point of the offseason. Teams protect their pitching assets, at least until they reach July. The lack of a pitcher like Cole, Strassburg, or Wheeler might be disappointing but it just didn't happen.

The signing of JD was important in that light. He was available, makes the team better, and some good pitching options may be available in July. The Twins will be dealing from strength at that time.

No, I'm not adverse to surprises. Do you think the Mets will trade Thor?

[Brock Beauchamp]

A trade for a legitimate starter would be surprising at this point of the offseason. Teams protect their pitching assets, at least until they reach July. The lack of a pitcher like Cole, Strassburg, or Wheeler might be disappointing but it just didn't happen.

The signing of JD was important in that light. He was available, makes the team better, and some good pitching options may be available in July. The Twins will be dealing from strength at that time.

No, I'm not adverse to surprises. Do you think the Mets will trade Thor?

July is when the Twins will be dealing from the greatest weakness, not strength. The offseason is the only time when buying and selling teams are at something of an equilibrium.

[KirbyDome89]

 

Those stats were amassed against a lot of really poor Twins pitching scattered across some terrible teams in the mid 2010s. I'm a big fan of the signing, but Donaldson isn't going to face Tommy Milone, Mike Pelfrey, Kevin Correia, ect. 

[RaoulDuke]

 

I still think Wheeler was a good get but not at the price he would have demanded to come to Minnesota (maybe $140m?). 

 

In replacement of that, trading some of the farm and getting a good starter + Donaldson is probably the best outcome we could have possibly hoped for given how this offseason unraveled.

 

But now they have to go get that starter, which is a pretty big ask.

Snell/ Thor is the dream and I would probably pay the price for it.

 

Archer/ Ray/ Gray/ Morton are probably the best realistic goals.

 

I think it is most likely to be Price.

 

I wonder if less talked about guys like Sale/ Darvish could be had.

[howeda7]

Pleasantly surprised. Now top it of with Alcantara. 

[bird]

Berrios, Odorizzi, Bailey, Dobnak, Thorpe, Pineda, Hill, Smeltzer, Graterol, Duran, Poppen, Colina...

 

It would be a minor risk to start the season with this slate, but it might be enough to win the division.

 

We have an overwhelming consensus about both the quality and depth of the position player roster, with Gonzalez, Avila, Cave, Adrianza, Wade, and Astudillo as first responders to any injury.

 

This may not come into play in early 2020, but the reality is we have 7 quite promising prospects fairly close to ready in Lewis, Larnach, Kirilloff, Graterol, Balazovic, Duran, and Jeffers. The trade value of these prospects, or alternatively of the current regular any of them would replace, is a lot higher than what we're used to having available for trade.

 

With this as the backdrop, it wouldn't surprise me if Falvey waited to make another rotation move until he can zero in on a stress-related opportunity, either yet this off-season (Boston?) or next trade deadline.

 

Bottom line is that their prospect capital is still there and the final hole in the roster is one front line starter.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Those stats were amassed against a lot of really poor Twins pitching scattered across some terrible teams in the mid 2010s. I'm a big fan of the signing, but Donaldson isn't going to face Tommy Milone, Mike Pelfrey, Kevin Correia, ect.

It’s super lazy reporting and I just laughed it off.

[drivlikejehu]

 

July is when the Twins will be dealing from the greatest weakness, not strength. The offseason is the only time when buying and selling teams are at something of an equilibrium.

 

The problem is that very few clubs consider themselves to be in rebuilding mode at this point. And the few clubs that do have minimal starting pitching.

 

By the trade deadline, additional clubs will be facing the reality that they aren't contenders, and currently unavailable pitchers will become available.

[twinsnorth49]

Oh my Falvine.

[Brock Beauchamp]

The problem is that very few clubs consider themselves to be in rebuilding mode at this point. And the few clubs that do have minimal starting pitching.

 

By the trade deadline, additional clubs will be facing the reality that they aren't contenders, and currently unavailable pitchers will become available.

And they’ll be selling to a market that needs pitching every single deadline, which drives up the price.

 

The offseason is when a team needs to wrangle a deal for pitching that isn’t two months of a rental.

[RaoulDuke]

 

Berrios, Odorizzi, Bailey, Dobnak, Thorpe, Pineda, Hill, Smeltzer, Graterol, Duran, Poppen, Colina...

 

It would be a minor risk to start the season with this slate, but it might be enough to win the division.

 

We have an overwhelming consensus about both the quality and depth of the position player roster, with Gonzalez, Avila, Cave, Adrianza, Wade, and Astudillo as first responders to any injury.

 

This may not come into play in early 2020, but the reality is we have 7 quite promising prospects fairly close to ready in Lewis, Larnach, Kirilloff, Graterol, Balazovic, Duran, and Jeffers. The trade value of these prospects, or alternatively of the current regular any of them would replace, is a lot higher than what we're used to having available for trade.

 

With this as the backdrop, it wouldn't surprise me if Falvey waited to make another rotation move until he can zero in on a stress-related opportunity, either yet this off-season (Boston?) or next trade deadline.

 

Bottom line is that their prospect capital is still there and the final hole in the roster is one front line starter.

I want them to make a move now but this seems like the probable approach to take. 

 

It usually costs more at the deadline to acquire a long term piece, but rentals become available.  Prospects can establish more capital in the mean time.

 

If Arraez has a good first half he becomes a major trade able asset.  Kiriloff/ Lewis are both coming off somewhat disappointing seasons so their already high value could skyrocket.  Rooker may well have mlb reps by the all star break.  Balzovic/ Enlow/ Duran all have time to put up more numbers.  Graterol is near the cusp of ready and could become insanely valuable. 

 

There is now one singular clear need for this team to be a serious contender.  It's a major gamble to wait but it seems like that will be the course. 

 

Hope Berrios evolves, Odorizzi maintains, Pineda continues what was looking like a promising comeback, Hill is still the force he has been for limited stints, and they find a deal for an ace by the deadline is a lot to ask.

 

This is the year, everything else it there.  I want them to suck it up and spend the prospects now, fix the rotation before it becomes imperative to do so.

[JD Green]

Starting Monday, Mauer/Sano instructional workouts begin. Dreams do come true. Next dream is a dominate starting pitcher.

[drivlikejehu]

 

And they’ll be selling to a market that needs pitching every single deadline, which drives up the price.

The offseason is when a team needs to wrangle a deal for pitching that isn’t two months of a rental.

 

The premium is going to be just as bad or even worse if you try to get a pitcher from a team that thinks it can contend (even if the belief is delusional). Allegedly, the Rockies think they can trade Arenado and still contend. Clubs like the Rangers, Reds, D'backs, etc. have made a number of contention-oriented moves and aren't going to deal away a starting pitcher at this point.

 

If you look at specific names, rather than speaking in generalities, it's fairly difficult to come up with many realistic off-season targets. Chris Archer presumably could be had, but Pittsburgh is more likely to hope he rebounds and he brings in more at the deadline. Not sure I buy the claims of poverty from the Red Sox and Cubs, that would allegedly cause them to consider dumping payroll. 

[nicksaviking]

I still think this team tries to get starting pitching and as they’re at a record payroll and even at arbitration value or team friendly contract prices, starting pitchers ain’t free.

 

I’m predicting Rosario and his contract are being shopped to offset that hypothetical pitching.

[Lasorda_This_Out]

"With this as the backdrop, it wouldn't surprise me if Falvey waited to make another rotation move until he can zero in on a stress-related opportunity, either yet this off-season (Boston?) or next trade deadline".

 

Boston at the moment is very vulnerable. Likely multiple 1st and 2nd Round draft picks will be forfeited and a really weak farm system. Falvine should apply maximum pressure NOW to get Chris Sale in a trade where it's the Red Sox who have the biggest grimace/angst after the deal goes down? 

 

"When your competition is drowning, stick a hose down his throat.."

 

   Ray Kroc - Founder of McDonald's

[RaoulDuke]

 

Those stats were amassed against a lot of really poor Twins pitching scattered across some terrible teams in the mid 2010s. I'm a big fan of the signing, but Donaldson isn't going to face Tommy Milone, Mike Pelfrey, Kevin Correia, ect. 

Idk Detroit/ KC/ Chi have some major weaknesses to their pitching staffs.  White Sox rotation additions were both soft tossing lefties that are going to have to face the Twins that can now trot out the lineup of death vs left handers. 

 

Donaldson remembered his times vs the AL Central fondly because there is always pitching to feast on.  The Twins certainly stocked the buffet but they were hardly the only caterer. 

 

Cleveland has a good rotation of young guys, Detroit has Boyd,,, KC has prospects, White Sox have Giolito and some good prospects.  Josh will get to face the likes of Gio Gonzalez/ Dallas Keuchel/ Daniel Norris/ Mike Montgomery from the left side and a good percentage of inexperienced/ un- established/ mediocre from the right.  AKA he is still going to get plenty of AL Central meat to eat in hitter friendly ball parks.  

 

It obviously won't be the onslaugh he put on the Twins in a smaller sample size, but he will still get to face a lot of AL Central pitching.

[RaoulDuke]

 

"With this as the backdrop, it wouldn't surprise me if Falvey waited to make another rotation move until he can zero in on a stress-related opportunity, either yet this off-season (Boston?) or next trade deadline".

 

Boston at the moment is very vulnerable. Likely multiple 1st and 2nd Round draft picks will be forfeited and a really weak farm system. Falvine should apply maximum pressure NOW to get Chris Sale in a trade where it's the Red Sox who have the biggest grimace/angst after the deal goes down? 

Sale still probably takes a real haul in pitching prospects and he has a no trade clause, he has an opt out in 2 years so he won't be a longer term piece. 

 

Price is intriguing maybe they can get him for just prospects?  Is Larnach enough to just take on the contract?  Can you just give them lesser prospects to eat half the cost?