Front Page: With Twins Likely Out on Donaldson, So What's the Plan Now?

[USAFChief]

 

Why, I read it right here on Twins Daily, in one of the many threads dealing with Donaldson.  Just can't remember which it was and really don't care to go back and spend an hour looking for it.

He hasn't signed. 5 seconds on google...

[USAFChief]

 

This 100% reads as Donaldson trying to use the Twins as leverage to get Atlanta to up their offer. 

I read it as "it's about money."

[USAFChief]

 

The Twins roster presently has 10 players acquired through free agency and 4 through trades. So, more than half the roster is a product of free agency and trades. $71M in payroll is committed to free agents next year. Does this sound like a team built totally from within?  

Do you mean this year (2020)?

 

I come up with $63.8M this year (Pineda 10, Gonzalez 9, Romo 5, Hill 3, Avila 4.75, Clippard 2.75, Cruz 12, Odo 17.8) .

 

Am I missing someone?

 

If you're talking about next year (2021), I think it's $0.25M (Romo's buyout).

[howeda7]

 

 

 

Dougie ain't letting us kill this thread yet.

Pretty much saying he'd be a Twin if we offer the 4/$110. Atlanta is clearly not offering that. So who not do it? We can afford it this year and next year. Plenty of time to figure out 2022 and beyond. Passing over an extra $4-5 million/year is so foolish. If you think he's a good risk, do it. If you don't you shouldn't offer $90 million either.

[rdehring]

 

You should probably do some research before posting stuff like this.

Furthermore, before you jump all over my butt, please read what I said...."Is that true?"  

 

Maybe a more appropriate response would have been to confirm that it hasn't been finalized, rather than the tone of what you did respond.

 

Personally, I get tired of all the experts here that jump all over everyone whenever someone doesn't agree with them.  

[Major League Ready]

 

Do you mean this year (2020)?

 

I come up with $63.8M this year (Pineda 10, Gonzalez 9, Romo 5, Hill 3, Avila 4.75, Clippard 2.75, Cruz 12, Odo 17.8) .

 

Am I missing someone?

 

If you're talking about next year (2021), I think it's $0.25M (Romo's buyout).

 

$7M for Bailey brings it to 70.8. I rounded to $71M. Read nothing more into my post than someone said a team can't be built without the use of free agency & trades. I just found that an odd position when more than half of next years 26 man roster is a product of free agent signings and trades. 

[USAFChief]

 

$7M for Bailey brings it to 70.8. I rounded to $71M. Read nothing more into my post than someone said a team can't be built without the use of free agency & trades. I just found that an odd position when more than half of next years 26 man roster is a product of free agent signings and trades. 

Yup, missed Bailey. My bad.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Not to jump on Doogie or anyone else, but if I recall, Phil Miller wrote than the Twins’ offer to Donaldson was “more than 20 million in annual value” or words to that effect. And that they haven’t really raised their original offer.

 

So, guess the Twins offer to be something like 4/84 or so, and not 4/105-110.

[KirbyDome89]

 

Not to jump on Doogie or anyone else, but if I recall, Phil Miller wrote than the Twins’ offer to Donaldson was “more than 20 million in annual value” or words to that effect. And that they haven’t really raised their original offer.

So, guess the Twins offer to be something like 4/84 or so, and not 4/105-110.

"Hasn't enjoyed their pitch" = They're offering under other teams....

[Oxtung]

 

$7M for Bailey brings it to 70.8. I rounded to $71M. Read nothing more into my post than someone said a team can't be built without the use of free agency & trades. I just found that an odd position when more than half of next years 26 man roster is a product of free agent signings and trades. 

 

I think you guys are both missing Polanco and Kepler which are now guaranteed contracts, I believe. That puts you closer to $80M for 2020 and $21M for 2021 in guaranteed money.

 

Also, for the second time, that wasn't my position. Please stop implying this. 

[twins_89]

My take on Donaldson is that the Twins have the best offer on the table, but he would rather sign with Atlanta. The $110M rumor is probably aimed at the Twins to say if you offer this he'll sign, if not he'll go back to the Braves. It's frustrating that the stare down is likely holding up other moves the Twins might be pursuing.

[AlwaysinModeration]

I read it as "it's about money."

Certainly seems more focused on the money than his preferred destination, that’s for sure. Perhaps they should just go ahead and show him the money.

[AlwaysinModeration]

"Hasn't enjoyed their pitch" = They're offering under other teams....

Might want to read Doogie’s tweet a bit closer, as it said the opposite.

[howeda7]

 

Might want to read Doogie’s tweet a bit closer, as it said the opposite.

Exactly. Doogie is saying he's enjoyed the Twins pitch and would like to face AL Central pitching. He will come here if we pay him, despite our frozen tundra and the modest plane ride from Backwater, FL.

[HawksNest]

Recap of Doogie Scoop on Skor North re: Donaldson:

 

• Twins have a 4 year offer on the table to Donaldson that is closer to the $80-$85 million range as opposed to $100+
• Twins are NOT the high offer right now
• Donaldson’s camp speaks with Twins FO almost daily
• Star Tribune report that we are “out” on Donaldson is “asinine” and Doogie has no idea why the Twins would have leaked that (he confirmed the Miller report originated from Twins org.)
• Doogie’s sources say that Donaldson is extremely intrigued in playing in the AL again, that he’s an “AL guy”.  Playing in the Central is also appealing considering the lack of pitching when compared to NL East team.
• Thinks 100% that Donaldson would play here if we upped our offer and that he is very open to the idea of playing for Minnesota
• Says that upping the offer is not a Pohlad decision but that Falvine seem unwilling to budge off assigned “values” that they give free agents
• If all things are equal, Donaldson would likely re-sign with Atlanta, but clearly Atlanta hasn’t reached his asking price yet (neither have we obviously considering we don’t have the high offer)

[howeda7]

 

 

Recap of Doogie Scoop on Skor North re: Donaldson:

 

• Twins have a 4 year offer on the table to Donaldson that is closer to the $80-$85 million range as opposed to $100+
• Twins are NOT the high offer right now
• Donaldson’s camp speaks with Twins FO almost daily
• Star Tribune report that we are “out” on Donaldson is “asinine” and Doogie has no idea why the Twins would have leaked that (he confirmed the Miller report originated from Twins org.)
• Doogie’s sources say that Donaldson is extremely intrigued in playing in the AL again, that he’s an “AL guy”.  Playing in the Central is also appealing considering the lack of pitching when compared to NL East team.
• Thinks 100% that Donaldson would play here if we upped our offer and that he is very open to the idea of playing for Minnesota
• Says that upping the offer is not a Pohlad decision but that Falvine seem unwilling to budge off assigned “values” that they give free agents
• If all things are equal, Donaldson would likely re-sign with Atlanta, but clearly Atlanta hasn’t reached his asking price yet (neither have we obviously considering we don’t have the high offer)

 

Falvine and their "assigned values" have made a mess of this off-season. Have they not seen enough to admit this and adjust yet?

[AlwaysinModeration]

I read somewhere late last night that the Twins offerred Donaldson 4/110 and he signed with Atlanta for 4/105. Is that true? If it is, there are a lot of comments over these 7 pages that should be retracted as the Twins did exactly what many were screaming for and the player still went elsewhere.

You read that in a different thread, an anonymous, random tweet from an account called “AtlantaBaseballInsider”, who insisted that Donaldson had agreed to the deal Friday afternoon, and it would be announced Monday evening after Donaldson returned from vacation. It doesn’t seem to have held water, considering the fact that it is now Tuesday evening, he isn’t signed, and various reports are saying the Nats and Twins are still somewhat in the mix.

[AlwaysinModeration]

Just want to note that 4/92 is closer to 100 than 85. Donaldson made 23 each of the past two years, and 4/92 is 23/year.

 

Also, the Nats could have a higher dollar offer with lots of money defered.

 

(This is assuming everything in that report is accurate.)

[SmellEm]

 

You read that in a different thread, an anonymous, random tweet from an account called “AtlantaBaseballInsider”, who insisted that Donaldson had agreed to the deal Friday afternoon, and it would be announced Monday evening after Donaldson returned from vacation. It doesn’t seem to have held water, considering the fact that it is now Tuesday evening, he isn’t signed, and various reports are saying the Nats and Twins are still somewhat in the mix.

 

That account actually came out a couple of days later and said he was just a Braves fan who made it all up. 

[KirbyDome89]

 

Might want to read Doogie’s tweet a bit closer, as it said the opposite.

Might want to check the reported offers....

 

As of today WSH is still the high offer at roughly 100M. There's nothing to suggest MN has extended a offer near what Donaldson wants, or that they're even willing to top what the Nationals have submitted. 

[twins_89]

If the Twins don't have the top offer and they aren't willing to budge, I'm not really sure how Falvey thinks they are still in on Donaldson.

[howeda7]

Give Donaldson his $110: $35, 30, 25, 20. Trade Larnach, Alcala and Jake Cave to the Marlins for Alcantara. 2020 payroll is ~$145 million. Line-up is stacked. Bullpen is solid. Rotation might look pretty good by July.

[nicksaviking]

Recap of Doogie Scoop on Skor North re: Donaldson:

 

 

• Twins have a 4 year offer on the table to Donaldson that is closer to the $80-$85 million range as opposed to $100+
• Twins are NOT the high offer right now
• Donaldson’s camp speaks with Twins FO almost daily
• Star Tribune report that we are “out” on Donaldson is “asinine” and Doogie has no idea why the Twins would have leaked that (he confirmed the Miller report originated from Twins org.)
• Doogie’s sources say that Donaldson is extremely intrigued in playing in the AL again, that he’s an “AL guy”. Playing in the Central is also appealing considering the lack of pitching when compared to NL East team.
• Thinks 100% that Donaldson would play here if we upped our offer and that he is very open to the idea of playing for Minnesota
• Says that upping the offer is not a Pohlad decision but that Falvine seem unwilling to budge off assigned “values” that they give free agents
• If all things are equal, Donaldson would likely re-sign with Atlanta, but clearly Atlanta hasn’t reached his asking price yet (neither have we obviously considering we don’t have the high offer)

Interesting stuff.

 

My main thoughts:

 

-The Twins supposed offer sounds like it’s much higher than original projections for a Donaldson this off season but Donaldson’s camp is valuing him about 80% higher than those projections.

-If the Twins won’t budge off of “assigned value” how will they ever get an “impact” pitcher? Those guys don’t sign for “assigned values”.

[ChiefsKid]

Just want to note that 4/92 is closer to 100 than 85. Donaldson made 23 each of the past two years, and 4/92 is 23/year.

Also, the Nats could have a higher dollar offer with lots of money defered.

(This is assuming everything in that report is accurate.)

 

92 is not closer to 100 than it is to 85, first of all. But that's not the point. The point is the Twins are hung up on 3M per year and unwilling to make it happen.

 

I've been reading quite a bit, and have seen absolutely nowhere that the Twins are offering even 92.

 

Its gonna be one final kick in the gonads when Donaldson signs with Atl for 4/95-100 and the Twins were given every opportunity to beat that.

[AlwaysinModeration]

92 is not closer to 100 than it is to 85, first off.

Hmmm. Fair point.

[tony&rodney]

 

92 is not closer to 100 than it is to 85, first of all. But that's not the point. The point is the Twins are hung up on 3M per year and unwilling to make it happen.

I've been reading quite a bit, and have seen absolutely nowhere that the Twins are offering even 92.

Its gonna be one final kick in the gonads when Donaldson signs with Atl for 4/95-100 and the Twins were given every opportunity to beat that.

 

Losing out on JD at the above number would be a shame.

[AlwaysinModeration]

That account actually came out a couple of days later and said he was just a Braves fan who made it all up.

Didn’t see that, thank you.

[specialiststeve]

 

How do we know? That’s the thing I and others are arguing. Make the top offer by 10-15 mill and see what happens once. It has NEVER been tried in Minnesota so there is nothing there to base your statement I quoted on.

 

Respectfully I am guessing you don't understand we are not one of the Big Boys! That IS what the statement is based on. The big market teams can "afford" to make a big ticket mistake we can't. That is the reality of being in the market the Twins are in.. 

 

Even right now I am a bit queasy what we are considering for Donaldson who looked washed up 2 years ago... has a good year and is wanting 30 mil a year... yikes. Being an old dude and understanding being financially responsible is not always ideal but in the long run is sound to run a stable business. Make no bones about it the Twins are entertainment and business 1st... winning is important to the entertainment part to get folks in the door but taking HUGE financial risks are not in the cards... nor should they be.  

[ChiefsKid]

Respectfully I am guessing you don't understand we are not one of the Big Boys! That IS what the statement is based on. The big market teams can "afford" to make a big ticket mistake we can't. That is the reality of being in the market the Twins are in.. 

 

Even right now I am a bit queasy what we are considering for Donaldson who looked washed up 2 years ago... has a good year and is wanting 30 mil a year... yikes. Being an old dude and understanding being financially responsible is not always ideal but in the long run is sound to run a stable business. Make no bones about it the Twins are entertainment and business 1st... winning is important to the entertainment part to get folks in the door but taking HUGE financial risks are not in the cards... nor should they be.

 

Respectfully, I suppose I just disagree with the notion that a 4 year, 100M contract to Josh Donaldson is as big of a financial risk as you make it out to be.

The Twins have about 25M committed to the 2021 payroll right now, and even less going forward.

It's one thing to "run a stable business", as you put it. Its another to make claims of aggressive pursuit of top tier free agents and extensions in order to increase a potential World Series run and then scoff at every single opportunity to do so.

 

Josh Donaldson is a hell of a baseball player. One of the better 3B in the league, both offensively and defensively. He would be out of his mind not to consider coming to the Twins, sit in the middle of this lineup and feast on the AL Central pitching staffs. The *only* reason he won't is because the Twins won't pay him his market rate.

[Battle ur tail off]

Respectfully I am guessing you don't understand we are not one of the Big Boys! That IS what the statement is based on. The big market teams can "afford" to make a big ticket mistake we can't. That is the reality of being in the market the Twins are in..

 

Even right now I am a bit queasy what we are considering for Donaldson who looked washed up 2 years ago... has a good year and is wanting 30 mil a year... yikes. Being an old dude and understanding being financially responsible is not always ideal but in the long run is sound to run a stable business. Make no bones about it the Twins are entertainment and business 1st... winning is important to the entertainment part to get folks in the door but taking HUGE financial risks are not in the cards... nor should they be.

Your first response said that these free agents won’t come to Minnesota even if we were highest bidder. I responded in kind. I’m not sure where this last response is coming from. Either way if you look a few posts up, we see that the Twins are again in fact NOT the high bidder. It also looks like they dont want to move off their perceived value.

 

So, like I said we will never know if players will come here when we are always low bid.