Front Page: With Twins Likely Out on Donaldson, So What's the Plan Now?

[USAFChief]

Based on some other articles I read, I think the Twins stuck with their original offer of 4/$90m for JD. Of course that's not going to get it done, but hey - they tried.

the STrib article SAYS they didn't "appear willing to move off their original offer," which the article also says was "in excess of $20m per year" for 4 years.

 

So they werent actually serious bidders, if the reporting is true.

[jhoffman]

If the A's extend Semien, they won't have the Moneyball to extend Chapman too. Trade that prospect capital for the best third baseman no one is talking about!  He's a lot younger and cheaper than Donaldson and just as good if not better.

[USAFChief]

If the A's extend Semien, they won't have the Moneyball to extend Chapman too. Trade that prospect capital for the best third baseman no one is talking about! He's a lot younger and cheaper than Donaldson and just as good if not better.

Chapman isnt even arb eligible yet. Oakland isnt trading him.

[ewen21]

Donaldson already earned 80,000,000 in baseball and he has a pension for life.  Do any of you really think he is going to take 110,000,000 over 95,000,000 to play someplace he'd rather not play?  He used us to jack up the price.  The guy has more money than he knows what to do with and because of that for a lot of guys it goes well beyond the money now.

 

There was a time when extra money did provide more of an impetus.  For these high price tag free agents who already have a set pension and have earned as much as Donaldson, what do they care about 5 million more when they are already set to make 25,000,000?

 

As a man, I know that if I had the money Donaldson had already, I would be more concerned about location than I am money.  He is from Jacksonville, FL.  He probably has family and friends all around and is more concerned about THAT than money.  

 

I know that is an impossible concept for some to grasp, but just because a lot of people cannot wrap their arms around it doesn't mean it isn't the main factor in this case.

[ewen21]

 

the STrib article SAYS they didn't "appear willing to move off their original offer," which the article also says was "in excess of $20m per year" for 4 years.

So they werent actually serious bidders, if the reporting is true.

What would it have taken in your estimation?

 

Also, do you consider for one second that players who are already rich beyond any measure don't really care about a few million dollars more a year when they already know they are set to be worth close 9 figures no matter where they go?  When you get in that range of money other things start to matter more.  I don't think you are willing to grasp that.

 

[jmlease1]

Feels a little like Donaldson is using all the other suitors to try and get Atlanta to up their bid for him, which is apparently where he wants to play. Which, good for him and all, get what you want, but I suspect this is where a lot of the pessimism is coming from with the FO. My guess is they've got a offer in that they think is competitive and bigger than Atlanta's and Team Donaldson is trying to get all the suitors to go higher in an attempt to get Atlanta to improve their offer, and right now Atlanta is the team that's not really moving. I can understand being frustrated by being used as a stalking horse.

 

Personally, I'd ramp up trade discussions with the Red Sox. I'd be very happy adding Price to this team, they could add him without giving up a lot in prospects because of the desire to dump salary over in Boston and they have the budget room to eat most (almost all) of his contract without a problem. So give back a mid-range prospect and a low-A lottery ticket and get the deal done.

 

 

[Twodogs]

What about Addison Russell? Could he man SS which would slide Polanco to 2B and Arraez to 3B and allow Sano to go to 1B? I know he had a big year a couple of years ago and has not really gotten full playing time since Baez came around, but he would be a step up Fielding wise I comparison to Polanco wouldn't he? I don't have access to all of the fielding numbers and whatnot but I just know he is a guy that is out there and he's only 25 and I believe he is a FA also? Correct?

[USAFChief]

What about Addison Russell? Could he man SS which would slide Polanco to 2B and Arraez to 3B and allow Sano to go to 1B? I know he had a big year a couple of years ago and has not really gotten full playing time since Baez came around, but he would be a step up Fielding wise I comparison to Polanco wouldn't he? I don't have access to all of the fielding numbers and whatnot but I just know he is a guy that is out there and he's only 25 and I believe he is a FA also? Correct?

I dont think moving Arraez to 3rd fixes anything. In fact, given his arm, I'm pretty sure Arraez would be a worse third baseman than Sano. So you've made SS possibly better, but 1st and 3rd worse.

[rdehring]

I don't often disagree with you, John, but I find myself doing so today...if I read the tone of your piece correctly?

 

We won't know whether or not the Twins were a success or failure this offseason until the games have been played and the season ends at the end of September.  If the Twins are again division champs and headed to the playoffs, everything they did will have been a success.  If they fail to make the playoffs without having an unusual number of injuries or suspensions, then you will have been proven correct.  My point is that it is way too early to proclaim that what they didn't do is a failure.

 

It is frustrating to me when so many people seem to think that the only thing that matters all winter is how many dollars they are spending.  I for one, am happy that we have a FO that appears to have a business plan that calls for caution when chasing free agents.  I am glad they have both dollar and length of contract limits that they appear unwilling to violate.  

 

And none of us know whether or not they believe ethat the best two of the four young guns we saw last year will perform as well as many of these free agents in 2020, given the opportunity to do so.  Personally, I can't wait to sit down at my TV and watch Thorpe or Smeltzer or Dobnak or Graterol toe that rubber every two of five games for the first six weeks of the season.  

[TwinsFan347]

To me this is good news, investing 25+ million AAV on a 4 year deal that takes him through age 37 was a bad idea from the start considering the other options that are available.

 

Now the question is will they delve into the trade market where there the better options lie. Even if it will rake some prospect capital or maybe a ML player. The Twins have a lot of OF options in the organization at this point and there is only room for 3 so parting with some of that talent to improve the overall team would make sense. 

[Thebigalguy]

Falvine, like Bob Dylan, know what they’re doing. Just as Johnny Cash told music fans to trust Bob, I think this baseball brain trust are thinking that we need a team that competes every year. I agree. Big fish seldom pan out for these snakebit Twins. The farm system, like Mighty Mouse, will save the day.

[howeda7]

What would it have taken in your estimation?

 

Also, do you consider for one second that players who are already rich beyond any measure don't really care about a few million dollars more a year when they already know they are set to be worth close 9 figures no matter where they go?  When you get in that range of money other things start to matter more.  I don't think you are willing to grasp that.

Stop with this excuse. Donaldson's camp flat out said they will sign with whoever meets their #. Our offer isn't close and we're not willing to raise it. Again. The only player who probably truly wouldn't play in MN is MadBaum.

[Twodogs]

I dont think moving Arraez to 3rd fixes anything. In fact, given his arm, I'm pretty sure Arraez would be a worsening third baseman than Sano. So you've made SS possibly better, but 1st and 3rd worse.

I was just looking him up after I posted that, and Russell has also had domestic violence issues in the past, so depending upon how bad those were the Twins might not want to bring him on board anyway?? I don't know the whole story, but I just remember all of the issues Sano had and that can't be easy for a club to have to deal with. I was just looking around and looking for some lottery tickets.

[howeda7]

Falvine treated FA like a garbage sale instead of an auction sale. And all they went home with is the misc box of junk they sell at the end and half their $ still in their pockets. Complete failure.

[Dave Overlund]

I don’t think Donaldson was the right move, but I know that low-balling every free agent under the sun isn’t helping our cause at all.

[adorduan]

 

I don't often disagree with you, John, but I find myself doing so today...if I read the tone of your piece correctly?

 

We won't know whether or not the Twins were a success or failure this offseason until the games have been played and the season ends at the end of September.  If the Twins are again division champs and headed to the playoffs, everything they did will have been a success.  If they fail to make the playoffs without having an unusual number of injuries or suspensions, then you will have been proven correct.  My point is that it is way too early to proclaim that what they didn't do is a failure.

 

It is frustrating to me when so many people seem to think that the only thing that matters all winter is how many dollars they are spending.  I for one, am happy that we have a FO that appears to have a business plan that calls for caution when chasing free agents.  I am glad they have both dollar and length of contract limits that they appear unwilling to violate.  

 

And none of us know whether or not they believe ethat the best two of the four young guns we saw last year will perform as well as many of these free agents in 2020, given the opportunity to do so.  Personally, I can't wait to sit down at my TV and watch Thorpe or Smeltzer or Dobnak or Graterol toe that rubber every two of five games for the first six weeks of the season.  

Uh, no.  If they just get to the playoffs again and lose, it's a failure.

[mudcat14]

 

  Here's what.  Blockbuster....Arenado and Jon Gray come to Minnesota for whatever the heck the Rockies want....

 

Agree, completely.  If I were Falvine, I'd give the Rocks the choice of Kiriloff, Larnach or Lewis plus Balazovic and eat all of Arenado's contract to get it done.  Including Gray would cost a bit more, but is worth exploring.

[travkro]

I looked at Donaldson's numbers and it is tantalizing. As much as Donaldson could add to the Twins it still is not enough to make a run at a World Series. The Move the Twins need is to move prospect capital and pay the price for an ace because they are unwilling to sign here as free agents. And not many Free Agent pitchers really work out for whatever reason.

 

I have my list of pitchers they should make a trade for but it is up to the Twins to pin point and pursue a starter they can control for a few years while they have this core of players together. If they wait for one of their starting pitching prospects to develop into the ace one day it might be too late.

 

[ewen21]

 

Uh, no.  If they just get to the playoffs again and lose, it's a failure.

THANK YOU.

 

Getting to the postseason is not a "success" if you lose 3 straight in the first round.  The fact that the Twins and a lot of fans have pronounced last season a success is troubling to me.  I woulld be willing to say last year wasn't a failure had we battled the Yankees tooth and nail and come up short.  Even then, I could not call it a "success"

[Sam Morley]

We aren't really going to know anything about the Falvey/Lavine team until the org's current top prospects come to fruition. My feeling is that the Twins have had a history of bungling the development of their most talented prospects. That paired with an inability/unwillingness to build the team in the offseason makes for a pretty impotent on field product. The team's success usually relies on a core of under the radar prospects who over achieve and establish themselves as solid big leaguers (Kepler, Polanco, Rosario, Garver, Dozier, Plouffe...) Of course, we're always wondering about regression and how long their success will last and whether we should try to trade them. 

 

If our prospects with the highest ceilings were being managed and developed to their potential, we wouldn't even be having this conversation about signing old guys in the off season. We'd be clamoring for extensions for our own stars. Berrios, Buxton, Sano- all enourmous talent/potential dramatically underachieving. 

 

Maybe Falvey and Lavine do not bear the full weight of those players' shortcomings. So, we will have to wait and see what becomes of Lewis, Kirilloff, and Graterol. 

 

I don't know what the problem is. I don't know what the answer is. I know that successful teams don't mess up their studs. 

 

My feeling in the past has been that the likes of TK, Gardy, TR, and Molitor were always trying to turn guys with buckets of talent into guys with limited talent who have to poke, and scrape, and hustle extra hard. It seems like the new guys could be a departure from that, including Baldelli, and that seems so much more important to me than what they can fanagle in the free agent market, especially given payroll restrictions. 

[USAFChief]

Agree, completely. If I were Falvine, I'd give the Rocks the choice of Kiriloff, Larnach or Lewis plus Balazovic and eat all of Arenado's contract to get it done. Including Gray would cost a bit more, but is worth exploring.

"...Gray would cost a bit more..."

 

You're miles short on both trades.

[shimrod]

"It is frustrating to me when so many people seem to think that the only thing that matters all winter is how many dollars they are spending."

 

That's not what we're saying. The point is, money is the one thing this team has in abundance that can be used to add talent without a negative impact to the rest of the team. Why trade prospects when you can spend money while keeping and developing said prospects? It's not a choice between spending in free agency OR internal development. The team can and should do both. 

 

As someone pointed out earlier, Cole didn't cost more than this team is spending on has-been's and injured veterans. Adding one or two top-tier FAs while aggressively promoting internal prospects seems preferable to buying a truck load of damaged goods hoping for a couple diamonds in the rough. 

[Brandon]

I would call last season a success. I would say the front office needs to step up and pay the price to improve the team. I think signing Donaldson is a step in the right direction. If Donaldson can be a 5-7 war player the first 3 seasons and a 2-3 the 4th season it's a win for us. The contract is right at the end of our comfort zone or what should be our comfort zone. The Twins should give him the 110 million with a 12-24 window to sign and start negotiating with Moreland in the meantime so they can pivot away from him immediately if he doesn't sign.

 

If the Twins are truly out of the running then Atlanta can sign him for whatever he wants and JD will have overplayed his hand. I think Washington is only in at this point to keep the bidding higher. If the bottom drops out they will gladly sign him but I don't think they will break the bank to sign him. I think what the Twins are doing is exposing this to JD by saying they are going to walk away from the table. And if you want to sign with Atlanta you can do it on their terms and if you want to get the best offer, you can sign what we have out there. I imagine the Twins would budge a little as a consession to get a deal done maybe 4 million or 1 million a year, but not up to 110 million.

[FritzDahmus]

 

What we've seen now since the front offices promise to strike when the window is open is two opportunities that they've failed on. We saw them get Romo and Dyson at the trade deadline. Both solid moves to try and moderately help the team despite Dysons injury, but they ignored the biggest issue which was starting pitching.


Now we're looking at this offseason which looks eerily similar. Plenty of moves that marginally help us, but not really addressing our biggest needs in an exciting or aggressive way. Meanwhile we've seen the White Sox push their rebuild by being aggressive, challenging us to respond.


Last years trade deadline cost us greatly when we essentially has 3 starters for the playoffs, one totaling under 30 innings in the majors. Will this bland and disappointing offseason cost us again? We're due for regression in 2020 and haven't done much to combat it other than run out a similar team. In fact, we're currently looking at Marwin Gonzalez as our 1B which would be about as sad as we could have expected coming into the offseason. The front office is due for every bit of criticism they'll get at this point.


It's become a situation where Falvey and Levine need to earn the good will of the fanbase back. They've done a good job of putting this team together to be a contender, but at some point they have to stop settling for scraps and do something to significantly improve. The minors are stacked with future logjams of tradeable talent. The payroll is embarassing as it stands for a team coming off 101 wins. Do something.

 

[Dave Overlund]

As far as we know the Twins gave Donaldson the highest offer. 4 years at 100 million is more than fair. He's rebuilt his value, but there was a reason it was down in the first place. They may have failed at signing any of the impact free agents, but they did try. It's more than the Twins ever did under previous management.

 

I offered Davannis $10 for a large pizza, based on the cost of ingredients it was more than fair. They still had the nerve to charge me $20. I said no and the guy behind me in line happily bought it. I’ll just get a frozen Roma pizza instead.

 

The Twins don’t set the market, the market does.

 

[ewen21]

 

Feels a little like Donaldson is using all the other suitors to try and get Atlanta to up their bid for him, which is apparently where he wants to play. 

That is exactly what he is doing because that is how the system is designed

[USAFChief]

I offered Davannis $10 for a large pizza, based on the cost of ingredients it was more than fair. They still had the nerve to charge me $20. I said no and the guy behind me in line happily bought it. I’ll just get a frozen Roma pizza instead. The Twins don’t set the market, the market does.

the pizza won't taste as good in 4 years, so you were right to stick to your guns and refuse to pay for good pizza, when a frozen cardboard box with a little cheese scattered across the top is all that Minnesotans deserve anyway. Besides, that real pizza probably wouldn't have went home with you anyway...it has free will, y'know.

[Dave Overlund]

the pizza won't taste as good in 4 years, so you were right to stick to your guns and refuse to pay for good pizza, when a frozen cardboard box with a little cheese scattered across the top is all that Minnesotans deserve anyway. Besides, that real pizza probably wouldn't have went home with you anyway...it has free will, y'know.

If there was a “love” button I would have pressed it ten times

[Darius]

This FO is turning into a joke. They’re pessimistic so they just back away? Again?

 

The best thing that could ever happen to this team would be a face plant this year and empty stands by the middle of the summer. Maybe it’ll be a wake-up call.

[Darius]

the pizza won't taste as good in 4 years, so you were right to stick to your guns and refuse to pay for good pizza, when a frozen cardboard box with a little cheese scattered across the top is all that Minnesotans deserve anyway. Besides, that real pizza probably wouldn't have went home with you anyway...it has free will, y'know.

So you’re answer is just to eat cheap ****ty pizza your whole life, and watch other enjoy great pizza? And you’re just OK with that? That really sucks for you.