Front Page: The Remaining Options After Josh Donaldson

[Dave Overlund]

 

Agreed on the disappointing off-season.  Tend to disagree/agree on the "We are trying to save money".  Look at the past few off-season big named free agents.  Bottom line, The money we offered was extremely comparable, if not matched what these FA's got, even less in some cases (Bumgarner).  So when it comes down to it, they DID NOT WANT TO COME HERE.  That's the free agent culture this organization needs to change.  In the past few years, the people we've acquired in free agency have made some great impacts, especially Cruz, but they were all maybe 2nd tier, 3rd tier, and 4th tier free agents at the time they signed.

 

So if you're talking Cole, Harper, Machado, Strasburg $$$, yeah, we won't go there.  However, we signed Mauer & Morneau at their primes.  8-years at $184 million (that was a large contract in 2010-11 when he signed).  We got a deal on Morneau for 6-years at $80 million.  You could argue they were every bit as good as Machado and Harper at that time.  Mauer had just come off a 28 HR season in 2009.

I've still yet to see one free agent come out and say that they specifically didn't want to play in Minnesota. 

[ChrisKnutson]

Apparently there’s a 50/50 chance that Arenado gets traded, doesn’t sound like a bad alternative to me.

[jorgenswest]

For most I think it is a preference to play in Arizona or Philadelphia or New York or Washington or Atlanta. They are all making more money than they will ever spend. It is clear to me they would focus on a place they want to move their family. I would. No player is going to say I didn’t want to play somewhere. Why would they?

 

Of the pitchers I think the Twins could have won the Ryu deal. I don’t think he was particularly focused on Toronto or anywhere. His home isn’t here. They could have offered him 4/90 and committed a rotation spot and significant fraction of budget for the next four years. I think I would have made that offer.

 

I do prefer Donaldson at a similar contract but I think he is waiting on Atlanta to add a fourth year and using Minnesota and Washington to get that deal. Even if Atlanta doesn’t step up I think he goes to Washington who will probably match anything Minnesota offers. I wouldn’t have wanted to wait on Donaldson and lose Ryu so I would have made Ryu the offer and gamble he will remain a playoff caliber pitcher the next four years,

[The_Phantom]

 

I've still yet to see one free agent come out and say that they specifically didn't want to play in Minnesota. 

That fake excuse really is rampant. No players are saying it, some are flat out denying it, but everyone in "Twins Territory" believes it to be so. 

[laloesch]

 

The Twins need to go on offense with Donaldson. Add a 5th year option if he gets to 600 PA's in year 4. Tell him he has 24 hours to accept. The Braves are sniffing around a trade with Colorado and we should not allow ourselves to be held hostage while they do.

I guess I'm a bit more reluctant on Donaldson. If it was up to me i'd be nervous about offering five years to a 34 year old player who was diagnosed with dead arm syndrome less than two seasons ago which also coincided with a decline in his BA and career high strikeouts. 

[howeda7]

 

I guess I'm a bit more reluctant on Donaldson. If it was up to me i'd be nervous about offering five years to a 34 year old player who was diagnosed with dead arm syndrome less than two seasons ago which also coincided with a decline in his BA and career high strikeouts. 

I'm reluctant too. But we either sign someone we have reservations about, or we sit here with a payroll $30 million under budget. Adding a 5th year which requires 600 PA's isn't much additional risk. If he's healthy and good enough to get 600 PA's in year 4, bring on year 5.

[High heat]

What if the Twins are dead set on moving Sano to 1B and we are way off on targets? I really like the Trevor Story idea maybe the Rockies will burn it down and complete rebuild.

 

Maybe we look to bring in a good fielding SS like Jose Iglesias or even Addison Russell. Improve pitching by improving the defense.

[Rosterman]

I just wonder how assured we are that Sano will be a decent first baseman. Granted we can have Garver play some there, too...to get him in the lineup. But then where do we put Sano. I do see Sano as the DH of the future. Any move on Donaldson means you feel John can play the third corner for four seasons.

 

[nicksaviking]

 

Go after Trevor Storey and solve the horrible infield defense problem and bring in a big bat. Polanco goes to 2B, Arraez to 3B, and Sano to 1B. And while your talking to the Rockies, ask about Jon Gray and German Marquez.

 

I agree with getting a SS to move Polanco to 2B. I'm not sure I want to put Arraez at 3B though. As much as I like him, if the Twins were going to go after Storey or Arrenado, I might supspect that Arraez would be part of the haul going back to Colorado.

[DocBauer]

Get a special bat and it really doesn't matter what position that special bat plays.

 

If you are looking at positions... We need a good defensive CF more than we need any other position.

 

If you don't sign Donaldson... Pivot to trade talks, Bryant, Starling Marte, Betts but think big.

 

Someone like Moreland will only marginally (if at all) improve the team and actually get in the way of every single prospect on the farm. Is Moreland better than Cron? Cron was not retained.

We generally agree on this point. You can never have too many good players. So get as many as you can and plug them in to the place, or places, that they fit best.

 

But that has to come with at least a little context, doesn't it? You get Betts tomorrow and now who plays 1B? Do you move Kepler there and cross your fingers? He's athletic enough to probably convert well, but is that the best course of action?

 

While I hope but don't think we will get Donaldson, he's a great fit due to bat and position and the move of Sano to 1B. But if not him, isn't a Moreland-type on a 1yr to replace Cron perhaps the best option? You have a handful of really good looking guys near ready to challenge for 1B, and Lewis getting that much closer to taking over one of the infield spots.

 

Not saying "don't get someone" because you whiff on Donaldson. I just think how they fit within the structure of the team, even and especially in context of positional flexibility, has to still be considered.

 

But yeah, have the money, miss on Donaldson, look to improve in any way you can.

[singlesoverwalks]

Looking at the 2019 Fangraphs "Inside Edge" fielding stats, Thames was actually arguably better than Moreland. Moreland made slightly more of the routine plays (and that would average out to like 2 more over a full season), but Thames made substantially more of the difficult plays.

 

Moreland's reputation for defense is well founded if you go back to 2018, but he slipped last year.

 

Neither is super exciting. But if I had a choice between those two at roughly similar costs, I'd choose Thames. He's one year younger and was injured less than Moreland last year. And I'd prefer either of them to any other first baseman still on the market.

 

Here's that data for all the first basemen still on the market: https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=1b&stats=fld&lg=all&qual=0&type=3&season=2019&month=0&season1=2019&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=9393,2530,11850,2502,7185,3086,9205,9957,3312,7619,3711,7539&startdate=&enddate=

 

 

[Linus]

I agree with getting a SS to move Polanco to 2B. I'm not sure I want to put Arraez at 3B though. As much as I like him, if the Twins were going to go after Storey or Arrenado, I might supspect that Arraez would be part of the haul going back to Colorado.

I’ve been banging this drum for a while now. We cannot stay with a middle infield of Polanco and Arreaz for the next 6 years. I’m not worried about Arreaz at third either. With shifting etc he will soon be better than Sano

[Riverbrian]

 

We generally agree on this point. You can never have too many good players. So get as many as you can and plug them in to the place, or places, that they fit best.

But that has to come with at least a little context, doesn't it? You get Betts tomorrow and now who plays 1B? Do you move Kepler there and cross your fingers? He's athletic enough to probably convert well, but is that the best course of action?

While I hope but don't think we will get Donaldson, he's a great fit due to bat and position and the move of Sano to 1B. But if not him, isn't a Moreland-type on a 1yr to replace Cron perhaps the best option? You have a handful of really good looking guys near ready to challenge for 1B, and Lewis getting that much closer to taking over one of the infield spots.

Not saying "don't get someone" because you whiff on Donaldson. I just think how they fit within the structure of the team, even and especially in context of positional flexibility, has to still be considered.

But yeah, have the money, miss on Donaldson, look to improve in any way you can.

 

That depends on how stiff you want to make your team. Personally... I don't want it stiff at all.

 

Special Bats, you figure it out and figuring that out is 100 times better than grabbing a so-so player like Moreland to fill a hole that is only a hole because of unnecessary inflexibility. 

 

Your context is what you make it. If you find yourself saying no to Betts because you need a 1B or because you have Rosario, Buxton and Kepler and you can't figure it out... you've purposely decided to say we don't need to be better, we are OK being less than we could be. We've settled on Moreland instead of Betts because I don't know what to do with Rosario now. I don't want my front office ever thinking that way because that's how you end up with Plouffe playing every day.  

 

Not only have you settled for Moreland instead of Betts but you've also settled for Cave when Buxton gets hurt again. 

 

Donaldson is a great fit because his bat is special. He is also extraordinary defensively at 3B so he will play that position and most likely not move. Sano can move to 1B because we didn't bring back Cron and this is surely an easy enough move and this becomes the new context. 

 

Just like Betts, Rosario, Buxton and Kepler becomes your context. Cruz will get hurt, one of those OF's will be hurt. If everyone is healthy and that is rare... One of the OF's can take a day off and all will play plenty or even play 1B on occasion and probably do just fine. If your manager can't handle this, he shouldn't be managing in the new world... but if he can't... trade someone and get something real nice back. 

 

The context is... You have added Mookie Betts and that is better than Moreland. 

 

I don't expect them to trade for Betts... Realistically, I'm Ok with 1B being used to find out what Rooker, Larnach, Kiriloff, Raley or whoever can do when opportunity calls. But... if I'm adding a bat.. ADD SOMEONE BIG!!! and I don't care what position he plays. Only Buxton is good enough to be locked into a position at this point.  

 

Let's not mess around with the Moreland types. 

[kenbuddha]

 

I'd take Story for Royce Lewis and prospects 10 times out of 10.

 

Story is a stud and we would be ecstatic if Royce Lewis became 60% of the player Story is right now

I'm not sure about Story in MN. Story's career OPS away from Coors is .756 (home=.998) and last year wasn't that far off. So, since we aren't in Colorado, I'd temper any expectations. Of course I'm only focusing on one portion of his game, but it's an important one.

[DocBauer]

That depends on how stiff you want to make your team. Personally... I don't want it stiff at all.

 

Special Bats, you figure it out and figuring that out is 100 times better than grabbing a so-so player like Moreland to fill a hole that is only a hole because of unnecessary inflexibility.

 

Your context is what you make it. If you find yourself saying no to Betts because you need a 1B or because you have Rosario, Buxton and Kepler and you can't figure it out... you've purposely decided to say we don't need to be better, we are OK being less than we could be. We've settled on Moreland instead of Betts because I don't know what to do with Rosario now. I don't want my front office ever thinking that way because that's how you end up with Plouffe playing every day.

 

Not only have you settled for Moreland instead of Betts but you've also settled for Cave when Buxton gets hurt again.

 

Donaldson is a great fit because his bat is special. He is also extraordinary defensively at 3B so he will play that position and most likely not move. Sano can move to 1B because we didn't bring back Cron and this is surely an easy enough move and this becomes the new context.

 

Just like Betts, Rosario, Buxton and Kepler becomes your context. Cruz will get hurt, one of those OF's will be hurt. If everyone is healthy and that is rare... One of the OF's can take a day off and all will play plenty or even play 1B on occasion and probably do just fine. If your manager can't handle this, he shouldn't be managing in the new world... but if he can't... trade someone and get something real nice back.

 

The context is... You have added Mookie Betts and that is better than Moreland.

 

I don't expect them to trade for Betts... Realistically, I'm Ok with 1B being used to find out what Rooker, Larnach, Kiriloff, Raley or whoever can do when opportunity calls. But... if I'm adding a bat.. ADD SOMEONE BIG!!! and I don't care what position he plays. Only Buxton is good enough to be locked into a position at this point.

 

Let's not mess around with the Moreland types.

Can't and won't disagree with you as we agree 100% in principal. Betts, of course, was just an example. Part of me always likes to look forward to the young guys I see being so close. Yes, guys will get dinged. And you can always end up making an unexpected trade if you truly end up with surplus.

 

Ranching it down a notch, what are your feelings on Frazier for a 1yr or Castellano as an OF, try him at 1B, he could play 3B in a pinch option? Not that I necessarily sold on either guy.

[Thrylos]

Kirilloff needs to get better than a .756 OPS in AA before he is considered an "option".   Rooker had a .933 OPS in AAA.  Maybe there was some confusion between the two, as far as internal options go.

 

 

[D.C Twins]

Uh Oh.... two TD articles in a row priming us for "what our options" will be when Donaldson signs elsewhere.

 

Me thinks there has been some leakage about the FO being out on him and some preemptive SPIN!

[Thrylos]

 

 [...]  you've also settled for Cave when Buxton gets hurt again. 

 

[...]

 

  Only Buxton is good enough to be locked into a position at this point.  

 

Good enough unless he is hurt again?  The Twins should not count at him playing more than 87 games a season, because that was his average the last 4 seasons (he gets a mulligan for this first MLB season) along with below league average hitting.

 

If the Twins could had trade him straight up for Syndergaard, they were not too smart not to do it...

[Riverbrian]

 

Can't and won't disagree with you as we agree 100% in principal. Betts, of course, was just an example. Part of me always likes to look forward to the young guys I see being so close. Yes, guys will get dinged. And you can always end up making an unexpected trade if you truly end up with surplus.

Ranching it down a notch, what are your feelings on Frazier for a 1yr or Castellano as an OF, try him at 1B, he could play 3B in a pinch option? Not that I necessarily sold on either guy.

 

I've retired from the "I want this player business". 

 

I truly want the front office to use the data they have and make sensible decisions on the players they want to add. 

 

I just want the front office to realize that they will be wrong at times I want them to react to those wrong times when they occur. 

 

With that said... I like Castellanos and I think he would be an upgrade bat who could play 1B and the occasional OF.... I think his 3B days are dead. 

 

He is the type of player that you figure it out for.

 

But... with that said... I have retired from the "I want this player business". 

[Riverbrian]

 

Good enough unless he is hurt again?  The Twins should not count at him playing more than 87 games a season, because that was his average the last 4 seasons (he gets a mulligan for this first MLB season) along with below league average hitting.

 

If the Twins could had trade him straight up for Syndergaard, they were not too smart not to do it...

 

Agreed... that's why I listed CF as perhaps our biggest position player need and not 1B.

 

That's another reason why I'd rather go get a Betts instead of a Moreland. 

 

 

 

[Thrylos]

 

Agreed... that's why I listed CF as perhaps our biggest position player need and not 1B.

 

That's another reason why I'd rather go get a Betts instead of a Moreland. 

About 2 years ago I was really high on Buxton to the Pirates for Cole and Marte.  That bird flew.  However, they can trade him to the Pirates (along with some prospects if necessary) for Archer, Marte, and someone like Keone Kela and call it a day.   it will be an improvement all ways.

[Riverbrian]

 

About 2 years ago I was really high on Buxton to the Pirates for Cole and Marte.  That bird flew.  However, they can trade him to the Pirates (along with some prospects if necessary) for Archer, Marte, and someone like Keone Kela and call it a day.   it will be an improvement all ways.

 

Whatever they need to do I'm OK with. However... I'm thinking Buxton Plus.