Front Page: Ryu To Sign with Toronto. Now What?

[ewen21]

182 IP in 2019.

And we should expect that the next two seasons? More than likely that will be the largest output we will see from him. That was the first time he went over 150 since 2014. Only the second time since 2015 he went over 100 innings. Stats are available to all of us

 

He turns 33 and has had a history checkered with a variety of injuries. Not sure what you are trying to tell me with a single statistic. Perhaps you can explain it in more detail. It would be appreciated because maybe you know something I don’t.

[rdehring]

 

Read please. I'm getting blasted for this, but seems as though some haven't read the rules. If his agent didn't use those 10 days to figure out his market value, he's bad. In fact, if I was Odorizzi with how this offseason has played out, I'd fire the guy right now. He did his client a huge disservice. He should have been shown the money this season. 

 

http://m.mlb.com/glossary/transactions/qualifying-offer

Agree with you that agents use this period to talk to potential teams to get a feel about their client's demand on the market.

 

Are you aware of the conversations he had with his agent?  None of us are.  It is more likely that his agent told him he didn't have anything solid that early in the process (he legally couldn't), but there was a real chance he could get a multiple year contract for XX +/- dollars, perhaps similar to the QO.  Now I don't know that to be the case, just as you don't know that the agent is incompetent.

 

We also don't know what was going thru Odor's mind.  He was aware of what Kuechel and others went thru the previous year.  He had stated on several occasions that he liked it here and was interested in staying.  Although I don't know, I suspect he then made the decision to take the QO after being given whatever information from his agent.  It is those prior comments that make me hopeful we will hear about an extension before the end of spring training.

[ewen21]

Who are you suggesting we trade for using only prospects? I'm just curious.

Kluber may have been worth a trade but I doubt if Cleveland would trade with Minnesota.

That deal involving Buxton and Syndergaard was something I would have done. Too late now.

 

Let me study up on it. I’ll think of something

[adorduan]

 

Essentially what I’m saying about Ryu. Who cares about “if healthy”???

“”If healthy” for a 33 year starter with a history of injuries isn’t what we need.

The last thing is this....
Even if we had Bumgarner and Ryu starting for us last year in the playoffs we still aren’t getting past the Yankees with the type of deer in the headlights at bats we had all series. This has gone on and on for years. If this organization can’t push pat that I doubt we win with Sandy Koufax and Tom Seaver toeing the rubber

well, if the bats suck, who do we need to get rid of out of the lineup?

[ewen21]

The idea that we are to assume players are lying all the time is getting irritating to read. Bumgarner expresses a desire to pitch in ARI and yet we have people here operating under the assumption that isn’t true.

 

Oh really. Please explain why he’d lie about that after the deal was done? What kind of tactical reasons would he have at this juncture? The deal was done

[goulik]

The idea that we are to assume players are lying all the time is getting irritating to read. Bumgarner expresses a desire to pitch in ARI and yet we have people here operating under the assumption that isn’t true.

Oh really. Please explain why he’d lie about that after the deal was done? What kind of tactical reasons would he have at this juncture? The deal was done

Thank you! Why do people keep ignoring parts of the facts? Isn’t that what we also learned about Wheeler and the East Coast? True for some doesn’t mean true for all, and that works both ways. Apparently biggest money trumped location for Ryu.. Strasburg wanted to stay with his team especially for that kind of money and Cole took the money to play for the Yankees. Am I remembering Wrong that Cole was a Yankees fan growing up? Some get both, big money AND their ideal team (see Mauer)

[Battle ur tail off]

 

Agree with you that agents use this period to talk to potential teams to get a feel about their client's demand on the market.

 

Are you aware of the conversations he had with his agent?  None of us are.  It is more likely that his agent told him he didn't have anything solid that early in the process (he legally couldn't), but there was a real chance he could get a multiple year contract for XX +/- dollars, perhaps similar to the QO.  Now I don't know that to be the case, just as you don't know that the agent is incompetent.

 

We also don't know what was going thru Odor's mind.  He was aware of what Kuechel and others went thru the previous year.  He had stated on several occasions that he liked it here and was interested in staying.  Although I don't know, I suspect he then made the decision to take the QO after being given whatever information from his agent.  It is those prior comments that make me hopeful we will hear about an extension before the end of spring training.

 

I mean, I agree with alot of what you are saying. But, as this process has played out, it sure looks like one of 2 things. His agent wasn't able to gauge this market correctly, or(heaven forbid this would kill a lot of people's arguments), he wasn't that wanted and the Twins QO was a good decision for him. 

 

Thus the folks saying he is better than Wheeler, Madbum, better than Ryu, etc. are making excuses for this FO, when if fact, he just isn't as wanted as any of those guys

[rdehring]

 

Thank you! Why do people keep ignoring parts of the facts? Isn’t that what we also learned about Wheeler and the East Coast? True for some doesn’t mean true for all, and that works both ways. Apparently biggest money trumped location for Ryu.. Strasburg wanted to stay with his team especially for that kind of money and Cole took the money to play for the Yankees. Am I remembering Wrong that Cole was a Yankees fan growing up? Some get both, big money AND their ideal team (see Mauer)

It may not have been solely the most money.  What was a shock to me, Ontario has the largest population of Canadians of Asian descent by more than two fold over British Columbia, which would have been my guess.  Considering that Toronto is by far the largest city in Ontario, it's a good bet that it has a large Chinese, Japanese, Korean community.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Because Pineda was suspended and Gibson was unhealthy. People keep forgetting that part of the equation. Leaving out part of the facts is misleading and part of it may be that your misleading yourself by leaving out these facts.

 

no one is forgetting that.....but many said the lack of depth was a problem before either happened.....

[USAFChief]

And we should expect that the next two seasons? More than likely that will be the largest output we will see from him. That was the first time he went over 150 since 2014. Only the second time since 2015 he went over 100 innings. Stats are available to all of us

 

He turns 33 and has had a history checkered with a variety of injuries. Not sure what you are trying to tell me with a single statistic. Perhaps you can explain it in more detail. It would be appreciated because maybe you know something I don’t.

I was responding to the "he couldn't go 150 innings if his life depended on it" nonsense.

 

He just went 180.

[USAFChief]

Because Pineda was suspended and Gibson was unhealthy. People keep forgetting that part of the equation. Leaving out part of the facts is misleading and part of it may be that your misleading yourself by leaving out these facts.

youre making my point for me. People here are advocating for even LESS depth in the rotation THIS year.

 

"We didn't need an expensive FA! We have Berrios, Odo and Pineda!"

[kenbuddha]

 

youre making my point for me. People here are advocating for even LESS depth in the rotation THIS year.

"We didn't need an expensive FA! We have Berrios, Odo and Pineda!"

I don't recall reading that in this thread. What I recall reading (over and over) is while it would have been a "really good thing" to sign an expensive FA (which we didn't), it isn't time to panic yet. I may be wrong, please point out who said that?

[kenbuddha]

So much panic.

 

• Cole - too expensive and not coming here.
• Strasburg - too expensive and not coming here.
• Wheeler - turned down more money in order to sign with Philadelphia (near his wife's home town) and stay in the NL East.
• Bumgarner - turned down more money in order to sign with Arizona and stay in NL West.
• Ryu - moved to Toronto where there's a much larger Asian population than Minneapolis. Plus our history with Asian players is limited and ... poor. Plus given his injury history I'm not sure about him.

 

Which of those top 5 were realistic signings for the Twins?

 

Would have been nice, but I'm not so sure we had much control over it.

 

Moving on...

[Mike Sixel]

 

So much panic.

 

• Cole - too expensive and not coming here.
• Strasburg - too expensive and not coming here.
• Wheeler - turned down more money in order to sign with Philadelphia (near his wife's home town) and stay in the NL East.
• Bumgarner - turned down more money in order to sign with Arizona and stay in NL West.
• Ryu - moved to Toronto where there's a much larger Asian population than Minneapolis. Plus our history with Asian players is limited and ... poor. Plus given his injury history I'm not sure about him.

 

Which of those top 5 were realistic signings for the Twins?

 

Would have been nice, but I'm not so sure we had much control over it.

 

Moving on...

 

24 of Fangraphs top 30 starting pitchers are off the market. This isn't only about the top end, but passing on the next tier, and the next tier. 

[Major League Ready]

 

24 of Fangraphs top 30 starting pitchers are off the market. This isn't only about the top end, but passing on the next tier, and the next tier. 

 

I could have swore we signed two of them.

 

There is also a very good possibility they felt they had all of the next tier we needed and were sticking it out trying to sign Ryu. Anyone ranking below Pineda is not exactly the difference maker we need.

[Mr. Brooks]

I could have swore we signed two of them.

 

There is also a very good possibility they felt they had all of the next tier we needed and were sticking it out trying to sign Ryu. Anyone ranking below Pineda is not exactly the difference maker we need.

If they tried to sign Ryu, then it's clear they just aren't willing to play in that end of the pool, as IMO the price tag ended up being very reasonable.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I could have swore we signed two of them.

 

There is also a very good possibility they felt they had all of the next tier we needed and were sticking it out trying to sign Ryu. Anyone ranking below Pineda is not exactly the difference maker we need.

 

They haven't added any of them that weren't already on the team, which is the point. But you know that.

 

anyone ranked below Pineda is still likely to be better than three rookies.

 

What would you have done? Not sign Ryu to 4 years, or any to 4 years or more. So, what would you have done, or do now? 

[Squirrel]

They haven't added any of them that weren't already on the team, which is the point. But you know that.

 

anyone ranked below Pineda is still likely to be better than three rookies.

 

What would you have done? Not sign Ryu to 4 years, or any to 4 years or more. So, what would you have done, or do now?

 

This thread isn’t about ‘would have’. That ship has sailed, for whatever real or imagined reasons, those ‘would have’ options are off the table. So ... what does Mike Sixel do now? What is your plan moving forward? What options do the Twins have next and what do you want them to do now?

[Five minute major]

The fact that there is the possiblity that the Twins may end up with a LOWER payroll than last year is extremely disturbing to say the least.   It is an absolute shame that the one team in this market that is not constrained by a salary cap are owned by the absolutely cheapest owners in major sports.   Any of the other ownership groups in this market would have signed one of those pitchers. 

[Squirrel]

The fact that there is the possiblity that the Twins may end up with a LOWER payroll than last year is extremely disturbing to say the least.   It is an absolute shame that the one team in this market that is not constrained by a salary cap are owned by the absolutely cheapest owners in major sports.   Any of the other ownership groups in this market would have signed one of those pitchers.

 

Okay, I’ll say to you what I just said above ... the should’ve, would’ve, could’ve options are gone. This isn’t a thread about bemoaning all things owners and salary caps, etc. what’s next in this off season? What is your plan to move forward? What are the next steps for the Twins?

[kenbuddha]

 

anyone ranked below Pineda is still likely to be better than three rookies.

 

What would you have done? Not sign Ryu to 4 years, or any to 4 years or more. So, what would you have done, or do now? 

Okay, let's go beyond the top 5, who would you have signed Mike from FG's top 30? I'm sorry if you've already posted this but given 12 pages of comments it's a bit hard to wade through them all. I see lots of names on there that probably aren't possibilities (Wainwright will die a Cardinal for instance), but who realistically would we truly want because we think they're going to be better than our rookies?

[Vanimal46]

This thread isn’t about ‘would have’. That ship has sailed, for whatever real or imagined reasons, those ‘would have’ options are off the table. So ... what does Mike Sixel do now? What is your plan moving forward? What options do the Twins have next and what do you want them to do now?

I would put together that prospect package for Thor. He was on the block last July, and I’m not going to make any assumptions that other pitchers like Blake Snell are available.

[ewen21]

I was responding to the "he couldn't go 150 innings if his life depended on it" nonsense.

 

He just went 180.

Nonsense you say.

 

I’m talking about going forward. He is 33 years old, with time and injuries compounding so I bet against it. I’m going on historical performance. In the last five seasons he’s gone more than 130 innings ONCE. In the last five seasons he’s pitched more than 90 innings TWICE. No need to get chippy about that. Those are just facts.

 

You think that’s going to get better starting at age 33? I think that is a bad bet.

[Vanimal46]

Nonsense you say.

 

I’m talking about going forward. He is 33 years old, with time and injuries compounding so I bet against it. I’m going on historical performance. In the last five seasons he’s gone more than 130 innings ONCE. I’m the last five seasons he’s pitched more than 90 innings TWICE. No need to get chippy about that. Those are just facts.

 

You think that’s going to get better starting at age 33? I think that is a bad bet.

Why does his past matter when you’re just “looking forward”?

[Squirrel]

I would put together that prospect package for Thor. He was on the block last July, and I’m not going to make any assumptions that other pitchers like Blake Snell are available.

As I said in my first post in this thread, that’s my hope. What would it take to get him? Do we bankrupt the farm for him? Last summer it was never just Buxton, straight up, they wanted Lewis and/or Kirilloff, too, from my understanding. What do you think it will take and is it worth it? Do we give up how many of our top 10 prospects? I think we have enough to make it happen, and I think it’s worth it, but I don’t know what exactly the right combination would be.

[ewen21]

So much panic.

 

• Cole - too expensive and not coming here.
• Strasburg - too expensive and not coming here.
• Wheeler - turned down more money in order to sign with Philadelphia (near his wife's home town) and stay in the NL East.
• Bumgarner - turned down more money in order to sign with Arizona and stay in NL West.
• Ryu - moved to Toronto where there's a much larger Asian population than Minneapolis. Plus our history with Asian players is limited and ... poor. Plus given his injury history I'm not sure about him.

Which of those top 5 were realistic signings for the Twins?

 

Would have been nice, but I'm not so sure we had much control over it.

 

Moving on...

Well put.

 

I get the criticism, but what I don’t get is there seems to be more passion and emotion about this than actually losing games in October. For the life of me I will not get that people appear to be more up in arms over missing out on overpriced FAs we had very little chance of signing anyway.

 

Kind of reminds me of dogs chasing cars

[Vanimal46]

As I said in my first post in this thread, that’s my hope. What would it take to get him? Do we bankrupt the farm for him? Last summer it was never just Buxton, straight up, they wanted Lewis and/or Kirilloff, too, from my understanding. What do you think it will take and is it worth it? Do we give up how many of our top 10 prospects? I think we have enough to make it happen, and I think it’s worth it, but I don’t know what exactly the right combination would be.

I wanted to trade for him back in July and nothing has changed on that front. I would have paid the toll of Buxton + Kirilloff and whatever else. Still would today. That’s the team’s only chance to acquire a front of the rotation player under cost controlled terms. If it takes 3 or 4 of the top 5 prospects so be it. There will always be more prospects to hope for in the future.

[ewen21]

Why does his past matter when you’re just “looking forward”?

Sorry but you have to delve deeper than this. Are you trying to say the last five years mean nothing? I review his performance, injury history and age. What are you using? Please explain

[Vanimal46]

Sorry but you have to delve deeper than this. Are you trying to say the last five years mean nothing? I review his performance, injury history and age. What are you using? Please explain

I’m simply saying you can’t argue both ways. Your rebuttal when Chief said Ryu threw 180 innings just last year is I’m only looking forward. Then you use past results to justify a future projection. If you’re only looking forward, then none of his past performance matters.

[ewen21]

Bumgarner comes out and explicitly states money was left on the table in favor of going to ARI and people wave that off like it means nothing. Ryu goes more than 130 once in the last five years. More than 100 twice in the last five years. He turns 33 in a few months and this doesn’t matter.

 

What we doing here people?