Front Page: Ryu To Sign with Toronto. Now What?

[kdag23]

I will concede that it has not been a complete disaster. But of the 4 pitchers that were signed, 3 of them were on the team last year. Plus Gibson has not been replaced, so from a pitching perspective we're worse than last season. The FO said that they would target impact pitching, but they whiffed. Maybe the operative word is "target" which implies that you take a shot, not necessarily hit that target. It's like trying...there's no such thing, right? You either do something or you don't. The impression I get from this team is that they don't want to pay market value for anyone. So now we look at trade scenarios, but I won't hold my breath because that will likely involve giving up prospects, which they seem unwilling to do.

[Musk21]

Hoping that the FO can uncover another Odorizzi or two out there. His numbers were decent, serviceable in Tampa Bay and it only took something called Jermaine Palacios to obtain him.

 

[howeda7]

If I spend any $ going to Twins games this year, they will be road games.

[IndianaTwin]

I think they will trade Jermaine Palacios for Jake Odorizzi. 

 

In other words, we've been exploring as trade targets all the guys who are supposedly "on the market" and who we think teams might be interested in dumping. But given this front office's penchant for value, I doubt that's who they are exploring and who we'll get.

 

From what I remember, very few if any of us had Odorizzi on our radar, when suddenly we opened Twins Daily on February 17 (yes, FEBRUARY) and found that we'd gotten an under-the-radar starter for the cost of a Class A shortstop (and I don't remember how highly regarded he was at the time). I think that trade's worked out pretty well.

 

Point being, there's lots of time left, and there's way more guys out there than have been named to date. I'd much rather have this year's Jake Odorizzi than guys who are going 30-40 percent more than what MLBTR had projected (not that they are gospel, but their projections seemed generally on target at the time).

 

 

[IndianaTwin]

 

Hoping that the FO can uncover another Odorizzi or two out there. His numbers were decent, serviceable in Tampa Bay and it only took something called Jermaine Palacios to obtain him.

 

Great minds thinking alike, apparently. Your post popped up as I was finishing mine. Brevity, you see, has never been a virtue of mine. 

 

(In fact, I could tell you about some of the long posts I've written. They started when I said something like...)

[howeda7]

The three biggest FO flops of the last 30 years are:

 

-Not acquiring a starter at the deadline last year

 

-Not acquiring a bat at the deadline in 2006.

 

-Not addressing the 2020 rotation.

 

Congrats, Falvey, you've outdone Terry Ryan in only 3 years.

[SwainZag]

 

I will concede that it has not been a complete disaster. But of the 4 pitchers that were signed, 3 of them were on the team last year. Plus Gibson has not been replaced, so from a pitching perspective we're worse than last season. The FO said that they would target impact pitching, but they whiffed. Maybe the operative word is "target" which implies that you take a shot, not necessarily hit that target. It's like trying...there's no such thing, right? You either do something or you don't. The impression I get from this team is that they don't want to pay market value for anyone. So now we look at trade scenarios, but I won't hold my breath because that will likely involve giving up prospects, which they seem unwilling to do.

 

Or target means the trade market as well.  The season doesn't start for 3 months.  Target pitching does not mean "we will for sure sign a veteran free agent to multi-year massive contract." 

 

I want to come on here to discuss the Twins and this thread in general, what are the next options.  We can discuss what happens next or drown out every thread with "the front office failed" "the front office lied" "fire everyone."  The offseason isn't over, there is a lot of time to acquire a couple of players.

[sweetmusicviola16]

 

I love the irony of being so reluctant to pay for the last couple years of a major contract, and advocate trading for the last 3 terrible years of David Price.

Yes unbelievable. Price is shot. The least of Dobnak, Thorpe, Smeltzer, Graterol and Romero are better than Price at this point. At most I'd be willing to take on 10mil per season of his contract and no prospect of significance going to Boston in return.

 

4/80 for Ryu bad. 3/96 for Price good. smh

[Battle ur tail off]

 

The three biggest FO flops of the last 30 years are:

 

-Not acquiring a starter at the deadline last year

 

-Not acquiring a bat at the deadline in 2006.

 

-Not addressing the 2020 rotation.

 

Congrats, Falvey, you've outdone Terry Ryan in only 3 years.

 

Haha. Missing on Cliff Lee was a big one in 2010 too...

[Battle ur tail off]

 

Or target means the trade market as well.  The season doesn't start for 3 months.  Target pitching does not mean "we will for sure sign a veteran free agent to multi-year massive contract." 

 

I want to come on here to discuss the Twins and this thread in general, what are the next options.  We can discuss what happens next or drown out every thread with "the front office failed" "the front office lied" "fire everyone."  The offseason isn't over, there is a lot of time to acquire a couple of players.

OK, I can be with that. The thing is, who is realistically out there to target?

 

Everybody says they want another Jake Ordorizzi. Really? Because my sights are much higher than that. Has he been good, serviceable? Yes, he has, he's been a pretty darn good 3-4 starter. That said, this team needs more than that. They need THAT and another guy higher up the totem pole. I don't see where that comes from without giving up extreme prospect capital. 

[sweetmusicviola16]

 

I will concede that it has not been a complete disaster. But of the 4 pitchers that were signed, 3 of them were on the team last year. Plus Gibson has not been replaced, so from a pitching perspective we're worse than last season. The FO said that they would target impact pitching, but they whiffed. Maybe the operative word is "target" which implies that you take a shot, not necessarily hit that target. It's like trying...there's no such thing, right? You either do something or you don't. The impression I get from this team is that they don't want to pay market value for anyone. So now we look at trade scenarios, but I won't hold my breath because that will likely involve giving up prospects, which they seem unwilling to do.

That's why Jake Odorizzi will be gone soon too. These guys either get what they think is a deal or they don't budge. He should have been extended instead of

receiving a QO. Bye Jake.

 

Our starting rotation for opening day barring any injuries: 1. Berrios 2. Odorizzi 3. ? 4. ? 5. ?

[Danchat]

Not a lot of options left now... they absolutely need to pull off a trade. Maybe get Archer from the Pirates, or try to pry Jon Gray away from the Rockies. 

 

As for free agents... um... you hope Alex Wood rebounds, or perhaps you sign Rich Hill since his numbers have been really good when he's been healthy...

[SwainZag]

 

The three biggest FO flops of the last 30 years are:

 

-Not acquiring a starter at the deadline last year

 

-Not acquiring a bat at the deadline in 2006.

 

-Not addressing the 2020 rotation.

 

Congrats, Falvey, you've outdone Terry Ryan in only 3 years.

 

How would a starter at the deadline beat the Yankees in the playoffs when the best offense in baseball only scored 7 runs in 3 games? 

[twins_89]

Another consequence of the utter and complete failure on the free agent market is that it puts the Twins in a very poor bargaining position for trades. Other teams will look at the level of desperation and price their starting pitchers accordingly. I'm now waiting to see rumors of teams vastly inflating their asking price when the Twins call about potentially available starters.

[Danchat]

 

That's why Jake Odorizzi will be gone soon too. These guys either get what they think is a deal or they don't budge. He should have been extended instead of

receiving a QO. Bye Jake.

 

Our starting rotation for opening day barring any injuries: 1. Berrios 2. Odorizzi 3. ? 4. ? 5. ?

I think an extension for Odorizzi is certainly on the table. I wouldn't be surprised to see a few more extensions similarly timed to the Kepler/Polanco ones in February last year. If they're not going to spend their money on FAs, might as well spend it on locking up guys like Berrios & Odorizzi.

[puckstopper1]

The inability to sign one of the top free agent arms (besides Odorizzi and Pineda) does not surprise me at all.

 

After the Twins signed Odorizzi and Pineda, there was much chatter on these boards about getting TWO more "top of the rotation" arms.  My response to that was "if you expect that to happen, you have not been following the Twins for the past 50 years."

 

Can they trade for another solid starter?  I sure hope so, but if the do not, again, I'm not going to be surprised...

[tvagle]

 

...does a trade pursuit of Josh Bell or Starling Marte make sense? 

It did to me

[SwainZag]

 

I think an extension for Odorizzi is certainly on the table. I wouldn't be surprised to see a few more extensions similarly timed to the Kepler/Polanco ones in February last year. If they're not going to spend their money on FAs, might as well spend it on locking up guys like Berrios & Odorizzi.

 

I agree that's probably certainly on the table.  I'm sure it was discussed before he accepted the QO as well.  It wouldn't surprise me one bit for them to announce a 3 year or so deal tacked onto his 2020 QO salary.  I also think we see at least 1 or 2 extensions before the arbitration hearings similar to last season.

[kdag23]

Yes, Archer or Gray would be good additions but if given the choice why not Sale? The problem as pointed out here recently is desperation and what the Twins would likely have to give up to get someone decent. Ray is another one. But it's going to be a seller's market, so again, how much are you willing to give up to land anyone on the Berrios or Odo level?

[Mike Sixel]

 

I think an extension for Odorizzi is certainly on the table. I wouldn't be surprised to see a few more extensions similarly timed to the Kepler/Polanco ones in February last year. If they're not going to spend their money on FAs, might as well spend it on locking up guys like Berrios & Odorizzi.

 

Why would Odo sign here? We are told FAs don't want to come here....why would he want to stay?

[SwainZag]

 

Why would Odo sign here? We are told FAs don't want to come here....why would he want to stay?

 

Why would he sign the QO then?  If he didn't want to be here he would have left.  

[Mike Sixel]

 

Why would he sign the QO then?  If he didn't want to be here he would have left.  

 

Because he misjudged teh market, I'd guess. He's got to be kicking himself for not taking a shot at 4-5 years at 18-22 million per. kicking himself.

[jorgenswest]

David Price is 34 years old and is owed 32M-32M-32M for the next 3 seasons and has missed heavy parts of the last 2 seasons.  Taking all of that contract seems like a huge risk.  I can't imagine they would take on Price unless Boston is covering at least a semi-decent portion of it.

I can’t either but I think paying him the 96 is a similar risk to paying what it would have taken to get Bumgarner or Ryu and a better bet than Keuchel. If I was advocating for Bumgarner or Ryu then I need to advocate for Price.

 

The cost of pitching has skyrocketed in salary and the cost in trade and prospects will rise accordingly. The Twins might have the best two deals of the winter in Odorizzi and Pineda but they need one more.

 

On the other hand the comments about Price are persuasive. It might be better to lock up Donaldson and get Walker.

[nicksaviking]

 

Why would Odo sign here? We are told FAs don't want to come here....why would he want to stay?

 

I don't think anyone is saying ALL free agents don't want to sign here. People who come here seem to like it here, that's why so many former players are still in the area after their playing days are over.  

 

And if some of these guys are choosing other locations for family/stability reasons, then the Twins should have a leg up on retaining current players on their roster. Which is another good reason to trade for players. Don't give them a choice where to play and then once they're here win them over with our charm and hot-dishes.

[DocBauer]

As a fan, of course I'm disappointed and frustrated. I was hoping for Wheeler and Bumgarner was my 2nd Choice. I've just never been sold on Ryu, though I would have cheered and hoped.

 

I'm not trying to sound smart, but I've said all along it was 50-50 the Twins would sign a FA vs making a trade. Except for Wheeler and Bumgarner, I didn't see a match that made sense.

 

Now, they still have to make a trade, and I believe they will. Who and what it will cost I don't know.

 

Lastly, there are still a couple guys like Wood and Walker who i think would be smart, inexpensive bounce back candidates to help fill up the rotation. I hope we go get one.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I can’t either but I think paying him the 96 is a similar risk to paying what it would have taken to get Bumgarner or Ryu and a better bet than Keuchel. If I was advocating for Bumgarner or Ryu then I need to advocate for Price.

The cost of pitching has skyrocketed in salary and the cost in trade and prospects will rise accordingly. The Twins might have the best two deals of the winter in Odorizzi and Pineda but they need one more.

On the other hand the comments about Price are persuasive. It might be better to lock up Donaldson and get Walker.

 

It's more than 10 million a year more, for a less healthy guy.....it's a way worse risk. Way worse. 

[howeda7]

 

How would a starter at the deadline beat the Yankees in the playoffs when the best offense in baseball only scored 7 runs in 3 games? 

It probably wouldn't have. But you still had a lead in the division and the best offense in team history. If you don't go for it then, you never will. They didn't know in July 2006 that Liriano's arm was about to fall off either. It doesn't justify clinging to Kevin Slowy and Scott Baker instead of adding Soriano and letting Jason Tyner DH.

[bustedstuff88]

 

Or target means the trade market as well.  The season doesn't start for 3 months.  Target pitching does not mean "we will for sure sign a veteran free agent to multi-year massive contract." 

 

I want to come on here to discuss the Twins and this thread in general, what are the next options.  We can discuss what happens next or drown out every thread with "the front office failed" "the front office lied" "fire everyone."  The offseason isn't over, there is a lot of time to acquire a couple of players.

 

 

Although I mostly agree with the sentiment, I think now we are fully within our rights to be beyond frustrated with how this offseason has been handled.

 

Yes, I know its not over. Yes, I know we can spin this in other directions. But the fact remains that as of right now, we are coming back with the same rotation in 20 as we did in 19 less a gibson, and the FA pitching market has now been tapped and we still have millions we could have (SHOULD HAVE) spent

[HawksNest]

 

I love the irony of being so reluctant to pay for the last couple years of a major contract, and advocate trading for the last 3 terrible years of David Price.

THIS.  1000 times this.

[bustedstuff88]

 

Another consequence of the utter and complete failure on the free agent market is that it puts the Twins in a very poor bargaining position for trades. Other teams will look at the level of desperation and price their starting pitchers accordingly. I'm now waiting to see rumors of teams vastly inflating their asking price when the Twins call about potentially available starters.

 

Yep this times 100.....We are one of the children left out in the cold looking into the store window as the Angels and Nats and Yankees play with their shiny new toys.

 

Im not holding out huge hopes for a trade either for this reason.