Go get Dallas Keuchel

[Twodogs]

I haven't been a big fan of Keuchel, however, after looking at the Twins situation they really can't go the first 40 games with 2 guys. Yeah Keuchel is not that sexy frontline starter, and yeah he isn't the guy who is going to match up with Cole and the Yankees in the ALCS or anything like that. However, he is the guy who has proven can toss 200 innings up without an issue and really that is what the Twins need desperately right now. They need a dude that can slot into the 3rd or 4th spot in the rotation who can eat innings during the season. He has proven that he can throw a lot of innings, yeah he is not a fireballer who will rack up a ton of K's. But, he will go out there and throw innings which will save on our bullpen a little. Right now the only pitcher on the staff that has really proven he can toss 200 innings is Berrios. Beyond that, I mean Odorizzi was an All star, but he threw like 150 innings.

 

Also Keuchel is at least as good as Gibson was, maybe better especially after he got sick, so it is an upgrade for sure. I get it, the Twins needed a stud to get to the World Series. They didn't get him, and they won't during this off season. So go get a horse that can log innings, won't kill you and can help get you to the finish line.

 

I mean they will have to use a few of the other options anyway, such as the Dobnak's and the Smeltzer's but you don't know how many times those guys will have to get pulled after 2 or 3 innings and will put a lot of stress on the bullpen. They will also throw some 7 inning gems because they are capable of that too. But just like Odorizzi, there are going to be some games where they are pitching ok and they will pull them after 5 and then the bullpen will be responsible for almost half the game, this was a struggle last year too. At least with Keuchel, even if he's given up a few hits, 3 - 4 runs they can keep him out there knowing he won't implode, he can average 6 - 7 innings per start and that will be one day where the bullpen can relax a bit. Because those guys need to be fresh if they are going to have any shot at the post season.

 

Also, Keuchel only pitched half a season last year, so he should be a little extra rested as he didn't have to put in a full season last year. I think Keuchel is a Twins type of guy, he is a Twins type of signing and he will get us to the post season.

 

Now if the Twins want to compete in the post season they will need to get that Ace or strong #2 guy at the trade deadline, now that is a whole nother issue, obviously, since the fearless leaders seem to be a little apprehensive at pulling the trigger when they need to. But since the big game is gone at this point, go and get a Keuchel to strengthen the rotation so we can get to the trade deadline in the hunt. At that point, some team with a stud will be out of it. Go and get that guy to put you over the top. Just can't wait around for something to fall in our laps, because I don't think it's going to this year.

[Brock Beauchamp]

LIke Bumgarner, I don't care much for Keuchel but the Twins *have* to get either Keuchel or Ryu.

 

Which one? I don't think I care at this point. Both were near the bottom of my list of acceptable (or better) options, albeit for very different reasons.

[Battle ur tail off]

Not against it, but I would see this as kind of a "meh? move. A #3-4 starter candidate. If he is signed, plus another move is made, I would be happy. I still think it's imperative to get a starter that profiles as better than Odorizzi and can be slotted in behind Berrios if the Twins want to have a true chance at competing. Probably gonna have to come in trade or an overapay for RYU and hope he stays healthy. 

[Richie the Rally Goat]

I'm not sure Keuchel is an innings eater on this Twins Roster. The infield isn't very good, and will limit his ability to get get outs. With that in mind, Ryu is my preference, higher K rate, higher flyball rate, lower ground ball rate seems to follow more of the Odorizzi mold and fits really well with Buxton and Kepler patrolling the outfield.

[jud6312]

I'm not big on Keuchel or Ryu either, but like Brock said - they have to get one of them.

 

If they roll into opening day with a rotation of Berrios, Odo, Dobnak, Smeltzer and Thorpe, there is a chance that they'd be behind the 8-ball by the time Pineda got back from his suspension.

 

It's not that I love or trust either of those veterans, but I trust them all more than the other three options I mentioned. You could argue, and I wouldn't disagree, that Thorpe has a higher ceiling than either, but I'm not sure you can say the same thing about the other two, but their floor is also higher than all three.

 

Maybe we'll be surprised and they've been targeting their impact arms through trades all along and they were sending out FA smoke signals to throw everyone off their trail. (I know, wishful thinking.)

[nicksaviking]

 

LIke Bumgarner, I don't care much for Keuchel but the Twins *have* to get either Keuchel or Ryu.

 

Which one? I don't think I care at this point. Both were near the bottom of my list of acceptable (or better) options, albeit for very different reasons.

 

I don't want them to get one of those two just to save face. I'd take Ryu if he's not going to stay in California, but I'd much prefer to make a trade or two.

 

I'd honestly rather have Homer Bailey, Julio Teheran or Taijuan Walker than Keuchel. This team has to limit the number of chances Sano and Polanco get.

[SpicyGarvSauce]

A soft tossing, contact oriented lefty with this infield defense...yeah, that will change the Twins postseason chances!

[darin617]

Only problem is that Boras is the agent for both Ryu & Keuchel.  Ryu is clearly the better of the 2 so most likely that means Boras will be pushing for a Keuchel deal first to get him the best deal for both.

 

Not sure I would want to go 4 years on Ryu or much more than 2 on Keuchel. It would be nice to add a lefty to the rotation, but not if the years were too long.

 

Either explore the trade route or rather focus on Julio Teheran or dumpster dive for a pitcher like Ivan Nova.

[Dantes929]

You guys might be right but it still baffles me how a guy's most recent season includes 187 innings and runner up in Cy Young does not rate highly and a guy (Wheeler) that didn't finish and has never finished in the top 11 was one of baseballs most highly sought guys.   Does actual run prevention or recent history count at all?

[Cody Pirkl]

Groundball specialists aren't great fits for this team. Even if we move Sano off 3B, our middle infield is brutal. I also don't think Keuchel is better than Gibson, at least first half Gibson. His walk rate is slowly climbing, his home run rate spiked last year, and he's another year older. I'd guess his price also rises to a pretty unreasonable amount after Ryu comes off the board.

 

I'd much rather see the White Sox sign the soft tossing lefty for way too much and watch him try to pitch to our lineup for the next few years. I think a savvier move the front office could make is to trade for a Marco Gonzales type from the Mariners who has a suppressed salary, controllable contract, and wouldn't command any top prospects either in my opinion. Similar profile to Keuchel with less likelihood of turning into a pumpkin next season.

[Cody Pirkl]

 

You guys might be right but it still baffles me how a guy's most recent season includes 187 innings and runner up in Cy Young does not rate highly and a guy (Wheeler) that didn't finish and has never finished in the top 11 was one of baseballs most highly sought guys.   Does actual run prevention or recent history count at all?

Keuchel's Cy Young was 5 years ago and he's had several injuries and not so great seasons since that one fantastic outlier. I think he's serviceable but he has the kind of pitching style/profile where any given year at the age of 31 he could plunge into mediocrity. The control/groundball type of pitcher profile has a ceiling that only goes so high because it takes perfection on every single pitch to succeed. The floor is a pitcher you don't want to put out there every 5th day.

 

You could dream of the possibilities of Wheeler's future just by watching him, and he's been more valuable than Keuchel in each of the last two seasons by a considerable amount. Teams probably had their own ideas of tweaks they could make that would turn him into the next Gerrit Cole, which is why his price was so much higher than anticipated.

[Dantes929]

 

Keuchel's Cy Young was 5 years ago and he's had several injuries and not so great seasons since that one fantastic outlier. I think he's serviceable but he has the kind of pitching style/profile where any given year at the age of 31 he could plunge into mediocrity. The control/groundball type of pitcher profile has a ceiling that only goes so high because it takes perfection on every single pitch to succeed. The floor is a pitcher you don't want to put out there every 5th day.

 

You could dream of the possibilities of Wheeler's future just by watching him, and he's been more valuable than Keuchel in each of the last two seasons by a considerable amount. Teams probably had their own ideas of tweaks they could make that would turn him into the next Gerrit Cole, which is why his price was so much higher than anticipated.

Sorry.   I know this is the Kuechel thread but Ryu's name was lumped with his in terms of similar desirability.    I was talking about Ryu when talking about runner up in the most recent Cy Young, not Kuechel.

[lukeduke1980]

If a Dobnak sprains and ankle, and a Smeltzer gets hit around a little, then Keuchel would be feel like a nice veteran option.  

[lukeduke1980]

 

Either explore the trade route or rather focus on Julio Teheran or dumpster dive for a pitcher like Ivan Nova.

I'm sure Nova is still  going to be looking for 8 or 9 per, 2 years.  I guess I'd rather have Keuchel for 3/39 than Nova 2/18?  

[Litdus]

 

Keuchel's Cy Young was 5 years ago and he's had several injuries and not so great seasons since that one fantastic outlier. I think he's serviceable but he has the kind of pitching style/profile where any given year at the age of 31 he could plunge into mediocrity. The control/groundball type of pitcher profile has a ceiling that only goes so high because it takes perfection on every single pitch to succeed. The floor is a pitcher you don't want to put out there every 5th day.

 

You could dream of the possibilities of Wheeler's future just by watching him, and he's been more valuable than Keuchel in each of the last two seasons by a considerable amount. Teams probably had their own ideas of tweaks they could make that would turn him into the next Gerrit Cole, which is why his price was so much higher than anticipated.

Pretty sure he's talking about Ryu here not Kuechel... I get the obvious negatives but it is still amazing how few people mention that he was one of the top 5 pitchers in all of baseball last year

[cmoss84]

Somebody on here awhile back talked about how Arraez wasn't a bad fielding 3B. So another option might be:

 

1B: Sano

2B: Polanco

SS: Jose Iglesias

3B: Arraez

 

This would supplement a Keuchel signing...and help our defense overall. We have enough thump in our lineup to sacrifice power for defense. 

[jud6312]

 

Only problem is that Boras is the agent for both Ryu & Keuchel.  Ryu is clearly the better of the 2 so most likely that means Boras will be pushing for a Keuchel deal first to get him the best deal for both.

 

Not sure I would want to go 4 years on Ryu or much more than 2 on Keuchel. It would be nice to add a lefty to the rotation, but not if the years were too long.

 

Either explore the trade route or rather focus on Julio Teheran or dumpster dive for a pitcher like Ivan Nova.

 

Hopefully that's as low as they dig in the dumpster. I keep seeing Homer Bailey floated around and that's gotta be the bottom of the barrel, doesn't it?

[tarheeltwinsfan]

 

Somebody on here awhile back talked about how Arraez wasn't a bad fielding 3B. So another option might be:

 

1B: Sano

2B: Polanco

SS: Jose Iglesias

3B: Arraez

 

This would supplement a Keuchel signing...and help our defense overall. We have enough thump in our lineup to sacrifice power for defense. 

I  was just about to post this exact thing.. In fact, I think I did in a previous post on another topic..

[nicksaviking]

 

You guys might be right but it still baffles me how a guy's most recent season includes 187 innings and runner up in Cy Young does not rate highly and a guy (Wheeler) that didn't finish and has never finished in the top 11 was one of baseballs most highly sought guys.   Does actual run prevention or recent history count at all?

 

Honestly, I might be alone, but when it comes to players switching teams/coaches/ballparks/cities, I'm more inclined to buy into the constants, like velocity and movement, than I am in the numbers the player put up under completely different environment the previous year.

[crapforks]

Somebody on here awhile back talked about how Arraez wasn't a bad fielding 3B. So another option might be:

 

1B: Sano

2B: Polanco

SS: Jose Iglesias

3B: Arraez

 

This would supplement a Keuchel signing...and help our defense overall. We have enough thump in our lineup to sacrifice power for defense.

It’s just so difficult to imagine all 4 infield positions belonging to different players than those who filled them in a 100 win season. Yes, Sano played a little 1b and Arraez played a little 3b. No reason to think Polanco can’t handle 2b. Even if the shortstop was already signed, I can’t imagine that drastic a realignment.

[KirbyDome89]

 

LIke Bumgarner, I don't care much for Keuchel but the Twins *have* to get either Keuchel or Ryu.

 

Which one? I don't think I care at this point. Both were near the bottom of my list of acceptable (or better) options, albeit for very different reasons.

I'm fine with pushing for Ryu. I think if it's Keuchel vs. a trade I'd rather this club explore trade options and spend prospects. I guess the question is how confident are you that the FO will pull the trigger (pay what it takes) to bring in an "impact," arm. It isn't a desirable situation, and I'd be anxious that anything would get done if they whiff on both but I just don't see Keuchel being a significant upgrade in any way for this roster. I suppose he stabilizes the back end of the rotation, and signing him doesn't preclude MN from making a trade, but the chances of both happening are even more remote. 

[Darius]

I see many people prefer to see Dobnak and/or Smeltzer get clobbered for 150 innings this year.

 

I just don’t understand why someone would be against signing Keuchel, given the teams current circumstances. Makes no sense to care about a midding contract for a middling starting pitcher (which, grant you, puts you near the top of the pecking order in the Twins system). That’s just how brainwashed the local media has people right now. It’s wild.

[cmoss84]

 

It’s just so difficult to imagine all 4 infield positions belonging to different players than those who filled them in a 100 win season. Yes, Sano played a little 1b and Arraez played a little 3b. No reason to think Polanco can’t handle 2b. Even if the shortstop was already signed, I can’t imagine that drastic a realignment.

point taken-totally get it. But ultimately, would it be an improved defense? That's what matters...

[Darius]

I don't want them to get one of those two just to save face. I'd take Ryu if he's not going to stay in California, but I'd much prefer to make a trade or two.

 

I'd honestly rather have Homer Bailey, Julio Teheran or Taijuan Walker than Keuchel. This team has to limit the number of chances Sano and Polanco get.

You honestly think any of those three are better pitchers than Keuchel, and give the Twins a better chance to win a playoff game? Why?

 

Not picking an argument here, legitimate question. Keuchel is 4-2 with a 3.47 career ERA in 60 postseason innings. I just don’t see how bringing that in would hurt this team on the field in any way.

[nicksaviking]

 

You honestly think any of those three are better pitchers than Keuchel, and give the Twins a better chance to win a playoff game? Why?

Not picking an argument here, legitimate question. Keuchel is 4-2 with a 3.47 career ERA in 60 postseason innings. I just don’t see how bringing that in would hurt this team on the field in any way.

 

And what would his ERA be if it took into account all of the runs scored on errors that the Twins very poor infield defense gives up? Because those runs count too. He's an extreme groundball pitcher on a team constructed to avoid ground balls and chase down fly balls. He's just not a fit.

[Dave The Dastardly]

So far in this thread I've seen last year's Twins infield described as "brutal" and "very poor". Does anybody have any stats that ranks all teams infields?

 

Just curious.

[Mike Sixel]

They backed themselves into this corner over the last three years, not acquiring assets in trade that were closer to the majors, and not signing any SPs to long term deals. Both of those might have been good decisions, but now they need to fix their problem.

 

Keuchel would be better served going to a team with a good infield defense, but I'm not sure the Twins can afford to miss on both Keuchel and Ryu, and expect to be serious contenders for the post season. There is probably another player that will step up, but is anyone confident they can predict which one that is? I mean, this FO chose Perez as the step up candidate last year......

[nicksaviking]

 

So far in this thread I've seen last year's Twins infield described as "brutal" and "very poor". Does anybody have any stats that ranks all teams infields?

 

Just curious.

 

If you got to Fangraphs and sort by Team and Fielding by UZR at each infield position, last year the Twins were 5th worst at 3B, dead last at SS, 2nd worst at 2B and 9th worst at 1B.

 

Honestly until I checked now, I kind of thought we were harder on Polanco than he deserved. Guess not.

[tarheeltwinsfan]

 

It’s just so difficult to imagine all 4 infield positions belonging to different players than those who filled them in a 100 win season. Yes, Sano played a little 1b and Arraez played a little 3b. No reason to think Polanco can’t handle 2b. Even if the shortstop was already signed, I can’t imagine that drastic a realignment.

Could you imagine this realignment if somehow the Twins signed Lindor to play SS? If so, then your issue probably is not the realignment, but rather inserting Iglesias at SS as justification to move the whole infield around.

[USAFChief]

 

LIke Bumgarner, I don't care much for Keuchel but the Twins *have* to get either Keuchel or Ryu.

 

Which one? I don't think I care at this point. Both were near the bottom of my list of acceptable (or better) options, albeit for very different reasons.

I think it's Ryu or bust at this point. If he's healthy--big if--he meets the "impact" qualifier that came not from us, but from the front office.

 

Very hard to consider Keuchel an "impact" pitcher at this point. Better than all but 2 opening day options, to be sure, but that's not a difficult bar to leap.