Front Page: Winter Meetings Bring a Dose of Cold Reality for Twins

[USAFChief]

It’s not that people think it’s a terrible place to live. It’s that it’s not a major city, and a lot of people not from the Midwest either 1) don’t realize it’s in the United States (sounds crazy, but it’s true), 2) have pre-conceived notions that it’s a dinky little ice sheet populated by hicks (I guess in their minds this would make it an unpleasant place to live), and/or 3) equate it with Omaha, Topeka, and other small midwestern cities of the sort.

a lot of people dont realize Minneapolis is in the US??

 

I call shenanigans.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Atlanta and Houston’s largest FA signings back to 2012 are below.  (from Spotrac) Houston’s biggest contract was Josh Reddick 4/52M. He produced 3.4 WAR in his first year and 1WAR each of the last 2 seasons. Brantley was quite productive last year but that deal is actually a much better example of getting production without signing the 5+ year deals.

 

Will smith at 3/40 is Atlanta’s biggest contract in the past 5 years. Their largest was for BJ Upton 5/72.5M which was an absolutely horrible signing. So, holding up Atlanta as an example of building through high profile free agents also lacks substance.

 

Houston

2020 – Dustin Garneau – 650K

2019 – Michael Brantley – 2/32

2018 – Joe Smith 2/15

2017 – Josh Reddick – 4/52M

2016 – Tony Sipp  – 3/18M

2015 – Jed Lowrie – 3/23

2014 – Scott Feldman – 3/30M

2013 – Carlos Pena – 2.9M

2012 – Chris Snyder – 1/750K

 

Atlanta

2020 – Will Smith - 3/40M

2019 – Josh Donaldson - 1/23M

2018 – Peter Burjos – 1/1M

2017 – Bortolo Colon – 1/12.5M

2016 – Mike Minor – 2/7.5M

2015 – Nick Markakis – 4/44M

2014 – Ervin Santana – 1/14/1M

2013 – BJ Upton – 5/72.5M Upton produced 1.9 WAR total over the 5 years.

2012 – Jack Wilson 1/1M

 

BTW … The Atlanta area is quite nice with a very nice climate.

Did you ever respond to the St. Louis Cardinals list of spending?

[prouster]

a lot of people dont realize Minneapolis is in the US??

 

I call shenanigans.

Anecdotally, you’d be surprised.

[laloesch]

 

I think it is adorable that people think we will keep Sano, Buxton or Berrios.  there will be some reason or excuse to get rid of them.  I think money might be second to playing on a contending team or in WS.  Some of them already have more money than most of us will see.  

I would even go a step further. Why would they (Sano, Buxton or Berrios) want to stay with the Twins upon reaching free agency? There's zero reason to do it. Nobody wants to move to Minnesota, deal with the awful weather, pay the sky high income taxes and play for a franchise that never takes any risks or goes for it. Some of that could be overcome by a team that occasionally goes for it all and signs big name free agents. The Vikings Organization for all it's faults really does try, but no the Twins.  They've haven't been trying since 1992.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Anecdotally, you’d be surprised.

Once when I was visiting a town in Texas, south of Dallas, someone heard my accent and asked me where I was from.

 

“Minnesota,” I said.

 

“That near Dallas?” they said.

[whitsbrain]

 

This is a baseball problem. They won't fix the team payroll problem because they want the Yankees to be one of the best teams in the MLB every year.

 

Can't wait until the next Yankees vs Red Sox ESPN TV series. Gosh it's fun. I hope Costas is doing the games. Gosh he sucks.

 

You nailed it.  Yankees vs Red Sox...it's what MLB wants.  I'm surprised they haven't moved Boston to the NL so they can have that potential World Series matchup every year.

[Bomba2026]

The Twins have always been very "Thrifty" with their money...I wish my friend owned the Twins because her motto is "You gotta spend money to make money"! Although most of that thought comes from football pools and pull tabs....anyway Did anyone here ever think this team was gonna spend money to get a Superstar Pitcher? The Twins have always shopped at the Goodwill hoping to find a priceless antique...Their best bet is homegrown talent and our farm teams again....

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

a lot of people dont realize Minneapolis is in the US??

I call shenanigans.

 

 

Anecdotally, you’d be surprised.

 

To be fair, a lot of those same people would also provide some pretty wild info about Philadelphia, or Phoenix.

[Major League Ready]

 

Did you ever respond to the St. Louis Cardinals list of spending?

 

I looked it up but did not respond. Partially because it does not make sense to expect the same practices from a team that was 7th in revenue with 356M in revenue as a team that was 22nd at 269M.

However, I think the Twins compare quite well in terms of productivity of FAs. I have listed STLs transactions below. They did sign two 5 year deals. Dexter Fowler for $5/82.5M and Mike Leake for 5/80. Their FA transactions or perhaps I should say their largest FA contracts have had little impact on the team’s success. Fowler has produced 1.9 WAR total over his first 3 seasons. Leake had .4 bWAR in 2016 and was traded in 2017 and was not very good the remainder of the contract.

 

Specifically where pitching is concerned. They did fairly well with Lohse on a modest contract. More recently, they signed to deals for high end RPs (Miller / Holland) that have been a complete bust. So, if the goal was total dollars spent, STL wins. If it’s productivity or impact we are measuring, I will take the Twins compare just fine.

 

2019 – Largest contract was Andrew Miller 2/25M. He produced -.4 bWAR

2018 – The biggest deal was actually Greg Holland for 1/14.  

2017 – Dexter Fowler 5/82.5M. 
2016 – Mike Leake. 5/80 
2015 – There biggest deal was Pat Neishek 2/12.5M

2014 – Johnny Peralta for 4/53. He was very good the 1st year. Last 2 years were replacement level.
2014 – Carlos Beltran 3/34. Very good the 1st year / replacement level the last year

2013 -  Kyle Lohse 3/33

2012 – Beltran 2/26

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Atlanta and Houston’s largest FA signings back to 2012 are below.

I agree Atlanta and Houston haven't been big FA spenders lately, but "do what it takes to contend" would imply trades as well, and both clubs have shown more aggressiveness than the Twins in that regard. Also in-house extensions too?

 

Plus both franchises have advantages of reputation -- Atlanta dating back to signing Maddux, Houston back to the Randy Johnson trade perhaps?

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I looked it up but did not respond. Partially because it does not make sense to expect the same practices from a team that was 7th in revenue with 356M in revenue as a team that was 22nd at 269M.

However, I think the Twins compare quite well in terms of productivity of FAs. I have listed STLs transactions below. They did sign two 5 year deals. Dexter Fowler for $5/82.5M and Mike Leake for 5/80. Their FA transactions or perhaps I should say their largest FA contracts have had little impact on the team’s success. Fowler has produced 1.9 WAR total over his first 3 seasons. Leake had .4 bWAR in 2016 and was traded in 2017 and was not very good the remainder of the contract.

 

Specifically where pitching is concerned. They did fairly well with Lohse on a modest contract. More recently, they signed to deals for high end RPs (Miller / Holland) that have been a complete bust. So, if the goal was total dollars spent, STL wins. If it’s productivity or impact we are measuring, I will take the Twins compare just fine.

 

2019 – Largest contract was Andrew Miller 2/25M. He produced -.4 bWAR

2018 – The biggest deal was actually Greg Holland for 1/14.  

2017 – Dexter Fowler 5/82.5M. 
2016 – Mike Leake. 5/80 
2015 – There biggest deal was Pat Neishek 2/12.5M

2014 – Johnny Peralta for 4/53. He was very good the 1st year. Last 2 years were replacement level.
2014 – Carlos Beltran 3/34. Very good the 1st year / replacement level the last year

2013 -  Kyle Lohse 3/33

2012 – Beltran 2/26

I don't think you read the list:

 

http://twinsdaily.com/topic/35827-front-page-twins-front-office-playing-with-patience-this-winter/?p=942388

 

You need to address Goldschmidt, Holliday, and Rolen. I don't think anyone cares how the Twins compare to St. Louis in free agent signings that ignores examples like those 3 just because they weren't *technically* free agent signings. Each one was an aggressive trade and contract for a player outside their organization, for which the Twins to my knowledge have zero comparables.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I looked it up but did not respond. Partially because it does not make sense to expect the same practices from a team that was 7th in revenue with 356M in revenue as a team that was 22nd at 269M.

However, I think the Twins compare quite well in terms of productivity of FAs. I have listed STLs transactions below. They did sign two 5 year deals. Dexter Fowler for $5/82.5M and Mike Leake for 5/80. Their FA transactions or perhaps I should say their largest FA contracts have had little impact on the team’s success. Fowler has produced 1.9 WAR total over his first 3 seasons. Leake had .4 bWAR in 2016 and was traded in 2017 and was not very good the remainder of the contract.

 

Specifically where pitching is concerned. They did fairly well with Lohse on a modest contract. More recently, they signed to deals for high end RPs (Miller / Holland) that have been a complete bust. So, if the goal was total dollars spent, STL wins. If it’s productivity or impact we are measuring, I will take the Twins compare just fine.

 

2019 – Largest contract was Andrew Miller 2/25M. He produced -.4 bWAR

2018 – The biggest deal was actually Greg Holland for 1/14.  

2017 – Dexter Fowler 5/82.5M. 

2016 – Mike Leake. 5/80 

2015 – There biggest deal was Pat Neishek 2/12.5M

2014 – Johnny Peralta for 4/53. He was very good the 1st year. Last 2 years were replacement level.

2014 – Carlos Beltran 3/34. Very good the 1st year / replacement level the last year

2013 -  Kyle Lohse 3/33

2012 – Beltran 2/26

The problem I see with your list is that it looks like you are hiding the high-dollar contract extension agreements these teams are making with their current players.

 

Someone looking at your list of St. Louis Cardinals won’t see last year’s Goldschmidt extension, or the $97 million Wainwright extension, or the $130 million dollars Yadier Molina has earned. Not to mention the big Matt Holliday contract which falls just outside the date range.

 

Someone looking at your list of Houston Astros won’t know that Verlander and Springer signed huge extensions too.

[rdehring]

Great article, Nick.  Thanks, Thanks, Thanks!

[KirbyDome89]

Money. It's the sole focal point for some fans, which has become draining. Yes, the Twins (and many other suitors) were outbid for Wheeler. They never could've even dreamed of approaching the contracts handed out to Gerrit Cole, Stephen Strasburg, or Anthony Rendon. While this will inevitably invoke utterances of "Cheap Pohlads" from a certain crowd, those folks need to face facts: The Twins are never going to have the uninhibited spending flexibility of a Philadelphia, New York, Washington, or Los Angeles.

 

The Rendon-Cole argument is a strawman. Nobody had expectations of landing Cole, despite what his addition could do for this team. The bar was lowered to Ruy, Wheeler, and Bumgarner from the onset, and now 2 of them are already off the table. The Twins could've beaten either the Wheeler or Bumgarner deals without pushing beyond reasonable payroll expectations. They chose not to do so.

 

Minny. Look, I know most Minnesotans hate this shorthand but I needed it for the wordplay so please let it slide. As much as I love Minneapolis, I recognize that we're not the most appealing destination for high-profile free agents and their families. Money talks, but it's narrow-minded to believe that's the overriding factor in every decision, especially for the most in-demand players. All four of the aforementioned free agents – Wheeler, Cole, Strasburg, Rendon – went from famed big-market cities to other famed big-market cities. Wheeler, from what I've heard, notified the Twins more or less that he wasn't interested.

 

Show me the FA contract offer this organization tenders, which beats every other team, and the FA that turns it down, and then we can start blaming geography. Narrow-minded is defaulting to the "they didn't want to come here," schtick while this organization continues to underbid. 

 

Money isn't an overwhelming encumbrance – ownership's willingness to spend was made clear by the apparent green-lighting of a massive offer to Wheeler, which healthily exceeds the amount Bumgarner got – but the Twins can't endlessly outbid competitors with deep pockets and built-in preference. I'm not sure why fans would yearn for it.

 

They did the same thing with the offer to Darvish. Is money not an encumbrance so long as FAs are willing to accept 20% less than market value, or is the FO entirely unwilling to pull the trigger? Either way, it doesn't bode well for this team moving forward. 

 

I believe the Twins are serious about doing everything within their power to strike a sensible deal with these players.

 

Sensible at this point has to be taken to mean "a steal," which runs counter to everything FA is. 

 

And this is the developing reality Twins fans may need to come to grips with: An offseason defined more by savvy than splash.

 

Disappointment. FTFY

 

This front office has shown a keen eye for pitching talent, and a special ability to develop arms.

 

Are we trying to speak this into existence? 

[bunsen82]

I think Twins management were hoping the market would be similar to the last couple years and they could get not only an elite starting pitcher, but also at a reasonable contract.  That is what has worked the last couple of years, but not this year so far.  The twins still have some levers they can pull, either sign Donaldson or as stated pick a pitcher they think they can rehabilitate.  You also have the trade market and the ability to take on a bloated contract.  Here are some options still on FA market

 

Josh Donaldson

Nick Castellanos

Ryu

Marcell Ozuna

Dallas Keuchel

Edwin Encarnacion

Will Harris

Teheran

Daniel Hudson

Avisail Garcia

Dellin Bettances

Rich Hill

Pedro Strop

 

There are some Outfielders, SP, RP (also a few not mentioned in the list), Donaldson who we are on but also a bit of a pipe dream.  The rest can be worked in, either through a trade to create an opening or building up our pitching through the bullpen and one more decent starter.  We are starting to get back into reasonable contract territory, shown by the bumgarner signing.  Ryu likely prefers the west coast, but I think the twins could lure with a significant contract bump over other competitors.  That could be a potential win for an elite pitcher , health though a major question.  There is still plenty of good players still available and on the trade market that we can set this team up for success with what we already have and what is in the minors.  I am honestly glad we don't have any of the contracts other than Bumgarner right now, because we wouldn't be able to compete with those contracts strangling us in future years. 

[Major League Ready]

 

The problem I see with your list is that it looks like you are hiding the high-dollar contract extension agreements these teams are making with their current players.

Someone looking at your list of St. Louis Cardinals won’t see last year’s Goldschmidt extension, or the $97 million Wainwright extension, or the $130 million dollars Yadier Molina has earned. Not to mention the big Matt Holliday contract which falls just outside the date range.

Someone looking at your list of Houston Astros won’t know that Verlander and Springer signed huge extensions too.

 

I thought we were talking about free agent acquisitions. You can't say the Twins largest contract is Santana If we are talking about extensions.

 

Also, while we were not specifically about SPs, that has been the focal point so if you want to hold up the Cardinals as an example, they have  gone their once in recent history and traded away the player the next year after he failed.

 

As I said, I was not inclined to compare the Cards because they have substantially higher revenue than the Twins. Why don't we compare STL to the Yankees. How hard is it to figure out the spent more because they have more? You really have to bury your head deep to ignore the revenue difference. 

[rv78]

After reading through all of these posts it is apparent that no one believes the Twins will ever sign a top Free Agent. EVER!! A Cole or Strasburg or Harper or Rendon or anyone that is considered to be "one of the best" is out of reach. If we can't do it now, why would we be able to do it next year? Or the year after that? or EVER? So with that thought in mind, why should we support this team? If the goal is to only be competitive, we are there and we can be disappointed every year, whether the Twins get into the playoffs or not. If the goal is to win another World Series then the mindset must change. Teams that invest in the best players adding them to their already competitive roster will be the winners, not the teams that play it safe and are satisfied with less than the best. Once you show that you will spend the money and sign the best then other Free Agents will start to come as well. Why, Because you have shown you are willing to try to win it all, not just to get there. Until then, the Twins will always be one of the last place destinations for any top free agent.

[Reptevia]

There needs to be a real hard cap in addition to profit sharing. Shelling out 25-30% of payroll to one guy isn’t wise or sustainable. How did that work out last time? The team is MUCH better now that they are out from under Mauer’s contract. Also, virtually EVERY FA they signed last year panned out. Let them do their work. Bottom line is, as a small market team, this is how it must be.

[Reptevia]

After reading through all of these posts it is apparent that no one believes the Twins will ever sign a top Free Agent. EVER!! A Cole or Strasburg or Harper or Rendon or anyone that is considered to be "one of the best" is out of reach. If we can't do it now, why would we be able to do it next year? Or the year after that? or EVER? So with that thought in mind, why should we support this team? If the goal is to only be competitive, we are there and we can be disappointed every year, whether the Twins get into the playoffs or not. If the goal is to win another World Series then the mindset must change. Teams that invest in the best players adding them to their already competitive roster will be the winners, not the teams that play it safe and are satisfied with less than the best. Once you show that you will spend the money and sign the best then other Free Agents will start to come as well. Why, Because you have shown you are willing to try to win it all, not just to get there. Until then, the Twins will always be one of the last place destinations for any top free agent.

 

Best case is $150m payroll. If we sign two top talents, that’s half the payroll for two of 26 players. We wouldn’t be able to field a competitive team. Why would any top talent want to be on that team? Why should we support this team? Because they are our team, and we support them or stop supporting baseball all together.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I thought we were talking about free agent acquisitions. You can't say the Twins largest contract is Santana If we are talking about extensions.

 

Also, while we were not specifically about SPs, that has been the focal point so if you want to hold up the Cardinals as an example, they have  gone their once in recent history and traded away the player the next year after he failed.

 

As I said, I was not inclined to compare the Cards because they have substantially higher revenue than the Twins. Why don't we compare STL to the Yankees. How hard is it to figure out the spent more because they have more? You really have to bury your head deep to ignore the revenue difference.

 

I’m just saying that you are presenting data in a way that makes it look like spending money isn’t effective. I’m also confused, because by your own estimates in other threads, a five-year Wheeler or Bumgarner contract would have been affordable with money left over. I don’t understand why you seem to be running from that.

 

Maybe individually, a Dobnak or Smeltzer provides more value dollar for dollar in 2020 than Bumgarner or Wheeler, but would you agree the calculus breaks down at some point, that a staff full of Dobnaks and Smeltzers isn’t as good as a staff with Dobnak, Smeltzer, and a Bumgarner or Wheeler in it?

[howeda7]

 

Maybe we should just share a team with Tampa Bay, like some have proposed for Montreal?

 

If we could merge the current Twins and Tampa rosters, I'd consider it!

Playing in -30 degrees half the year and in an ugly Dome the other half? Who would sign up for that? They'd have to pay MadBaum $60 million/year and give him a private jet for his horses.

[howeda7]

 

Anecdotally, you’d be surprised.

I've been accused of having a Canadian accent in the South. I've also encountered someone who thought Minnesota and Wisconsin were really just one state. But actually thinking Minnesota is part of Canada? No.

[howeda7]

 

I would even go a step further. Why would they (Sano, Buxton or Berrios) want to stay with the Twins upon reaching free agency? There's zero reason to do it. Nobody wants to move to Minnesota, deal with the awful weather, pay the sky high income taxes and play for a franchise that never takes any risks or goes for it. Some of that could be overcome by a team that occasionally goes for it all and signs big name free agents. The Vikings Organization for all it's faults really does try, but no the Twins.  They've haven't been trying since 1992.

The top income tax rate in Minnesota is 9.85%, which it's been for years. That's only "sky high" compared the 6 states that have none. And this "Off-season of Twins excuses" is the first time I've ever heard anyone bring it up regarding MN teams and FA.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I thought we were talking about free agent acquisitions. You can't say the Twins largest contract is Santana If we are talking about extensions.

You made the subject exclusively about FA acquisitions. Here's the post to which your responded to begin this tangent:

 

http://twinsdaily.com/topic/35827-front-page-twins-front-office-playing-with-patience-this-winter/?p=942060

 

 

 

Falvey has proven to be a geeky stat-head version of Terry Ryan. Clinging to prospects like grim death and gravely afraid of signing a bad contract. That's not entirely a bad thing. But it's also not entirely good.

Once, just once, I'd like to see the Twins behave like the St. Louis Cardinals instead of the Tampa Rays. But I'm now pretty convinced it will never happen until there a new owner and a completely new FO and mindset. Until then, we'll be a plucky team that wins our division once in a while, and then gets our brains beat in by the Yankees.

I don't necessarily agree fully with that poster, but it seems to be talking about aggressiveness in general, and the Cards have been more aggressive than the Twins, and the trades/contracts for Rolen, Holliday, and Goldschmidt illustrate that.

[bighat]

 

 

 

Atlanta

2020 – Will Smith - 3/40M

2019 – Josh Donaldson - 1/23M

2018 – Peter Burjos – 1/1M

2017 – Bortolo Colon – 1/12.5M

2016 – Mike Minor – 2/7.5M

2015 – Nick Markakis – 4/44M

2014 – Ervin Santana – 1/14/1M

2013 – BJ Upton – 5/72.5M Upton produced 1.9 WAR total over the 5 years.
2012 – Jack Wilson 1/1M

 

BTW … The Atlanta area is quite nice with a very nice climate.

 

You left off two other signings in 2020, including Cole Hamels who just signed with the Braves along with highly-coveted reliever Chris Martin and catcher Travis D'Arnaud.

 

The Will Smith signing alone makes the Braves off-season a bigger splash than the Twins. Throw in the other 3 guys above and the organizations couldn't be any different.
 

[DocBauer]

Without knowing all the details, such as what the Twins fully offered, (heard they and others offered 4yrs, but not 5, but unsure of the $ details), it's hard for me to accurately comment on Bumgarner. It sure sounds like being so close to "home" was a big pull for him.

 

But the contract he signed sounded much more reasonable than what some reports stated he might be asking or signing for. Also, even if the Twins didn't want to go the 5yr, couldn't they have front loaded a 4yr offer?

 

I think I'm maybe more bummed losing out here as I really thought the details would make more sense. And it seems that is the case.

 

I really think he would have been a quality #2 quality SP for the next couple of years with experience and some bulldog edge to him. Maybe he just wouldn't have come no matter what unless the annual was considerably higher. And we may never know. But this one stinks a little bit.

[Nick Nelson]

 

Without knowing all the details, such as what the Twins fully offered, (heard they and others offered 4yrs, but not 5, but unsure of the $ details), it's hard for me to accurately comment on Bumgarner. It sure sounds like being so close to "home" was a big pull for him.

But the contract he signed sounded much more reasonable than what some reports stated he might be asking or signing for. Also, even if the Twins didn't want to go the 5yr, couldn't they have front loaded a 4yr offer?

I think I'm maybe more bummed losing out here as I really thought the details would make more sense. And it seems that is the case.

I really think he would have been a quality #2 quality SP for the next couple of years with experience and some bulldog edge to him. Maybe he just wouldn't have come no matter what unless the annual was considerably higher. And we may never know. But this one stinks a little bit.

Very reasoned and on-point take. I'd say this basically sums up my feelings.

 

I have to believe that if the Twins offered the contract I suggested here, he wouldn't have opted for AZ. It's $10 million higher in total value, and it gives Bumgarner the chance to make a ton more in the first few years, then potentially opt-out and go sign with the D-Backs or whoever. If the front office didn't attempt something creative along those lines to lure him, it's disappointing. 

 

But it also wouldn't totally shock me if they did and he still said no. Like you said, we don't know what they offered, and by all accounts Bumgarner had his heart set on Phoenix. 

[Mike Sixel]

Fifteen of Fangraphs top twenty free agent starting pitchers are signed, plus a few others. Two were brought back to Minnesota. They have not acquired any of the other top twenty.... Is anyone excited about the remaining guys at this point?

[DocBauer]

Very reasoned and on-point take. I'd say this basically sums up my feelings.

 

I have to believe that if the Twins offered the contract I suggested here, he would've opted for AZ. It's $10 million higher in total value, and it gives Bumgarner the chance to make a ton more in the first few years, then potentially opt-out and go sign with the D-Backs or whoever. If the front office didn't attempt something creative along those lines to lure him, it's disappointing. 

 

But it also wouldn't totally shock me if they did and he still said no. Like you said, we don't know what they offered, and by all accounts Bumgarner had his heart set on Phoenix.

 

Thanks Nick. I think we are both measured on thjs subject. But measured still doesn't put a SP of quality in our rotation. And I doubt we will ever knkw what the Twins best offer was, or if they were willing to go higher or offer any sort of opt out though I know they have previously stated they don't like those.

 

I don't want to offer up excuses, because this was the one guy who I really thought made some sense and could fit financially. Again, final numbers seem to say it might have been. But I have this naggjng feeling he would have only come here if the numbers were at least $10M more if not additional.

 

And that is a hard debate. I agree with the idea Ash and Brian brought up concerning the "stupidity tax" you sometimes have to pay. (May have gotten that wrong, forgive me). Frugal is not a bad word. It doesn't mean cheap. It means you are smart enough with finances not to go to deep at times where the ultimate payout doesn't warrant the investment. Again, a hard debate. IMO, I think Bumgarner..IF he was interested...would have been worth it for 2-3yrs, not worth the investment the final year or two. But the final balance sheet woukd have said yes. Time will tell and again, we will probably never knkw the interest from Bumgarner or the Twins best offer.

 

But I will say, as smart as I believe this FO is, as smart and as aggressive as they have been from top to bottom from everything they have done, I believe they miscalculated this FA class and opportunity based on the last 2 off-seasons. The question now is, how do they correct?

[DocBauer]

I've had a lot of laughs about Minnesota as a landing spot for players and FA and the such. As a Nebraskan and Omaha native, I've chuckled at having my home city mentioned a couple of times in context. And I am not equating thjs directly to the Twins and pursuit of FA. But it may apply, directly or indirectly.

 

The Big Red have recruited nationally since Bob Devaney built the program in the late 60's all the way through the glory days of Tom Osborne. Coaches since have done so. You kind of have to considering population. But reputation only takes you so far. (Sound a bit familiar?) But for several years now, as we re-build the Husker program, over and over again you hear about kids who absolutely love what they see when they get here. They felt Lincoln NE was a tiny bodunk town in the middle of cornfields with nothing to offer. And, of course, it snowed all the time and was always cold. This is no hyperbole. Now, nobody thought we were part of Canada, lol, but perception out of the Midwest is borderline nuts for some people born and raised out west or down south.

 

But what has always happened is, those who have come here ALWAYS think thjs is HOME to them whether they stay here permanently or not. How many Vikings and Twins players, through the years and now, have stated similar feelings? I get money talks when dealing with FA. There are always other mitigating factors. Thats reality. But maybe this new, aggressive and progressive FO need to not only think about $ but work on a different "recruiting pitch".