Front Page: Getting an “Ace” Easier Said Than Done

[bustedstuff88]

Mauer's contract also was a great example of why these protracted mega deals ALWAYS look dumb in the end....

 

The same will be true of Trout, Harper, Cole, Strasburg, Rendon in years 5,6,7 and beyond....just as it did with Joe Mauer. 

 

Point being, you sometimes need to sign the "stupid contract" to move the needle. 

 

Now we need to show we are willing to do it more than once in a lifetime for a hometown slam dunk allstar at a premium position.  

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

The FO works in a milieu with 29 other organizations and FAs who have their own desires. This isn't as simple as "offer more money!" I'm a teacher in Michigan. You couldn't pay me enough to move my family to Louisiana to teach. Or California. Or a lot of places. Geography, culture, perception, etc. These things matter to ball players as much as they do to us. 

I fully admit that ballplayers are human, and as such can have similar concerns and preferences as the rest of us. (How humane of me to recognize that! )

 

But it's also important to keep in mind that pro athletes are essentially entertainers, like movie stars or music stars, who usually have different life goals and objectives than the rest of the population, often dating back to childhood. Even the most devoted-to-family entertainers will compromise their commitments to family and location for a few months at a time to go shoot a film on location, or go on tour, etc. All in pursuit of their craft, the competition and respect of their peers, etc. -- and yes, even in pursuit of money as well (which is sometimes how the less tangible goals are measured, in part). That kind of mindset and drive predates the 8-figure salaries, and often lasts beyond them too.

 

That's not to say some entertainers can't be different, or have different priorities. But I'd caution against reading about Wheeler's and Bumgarner's choices this winter and drawing too many parallels to our non-entertainer lives -- as both Philly and Arizona were the high or near-high bidder, I suspect those might be more happy coincidences of the market rather than driving factors behind it.

 

If ballplayers were more truly "like us" in this regard, I suspect we'd see some really wacky contracts -- like someone taking dramatically less to go to a non-contender in a desired location, or to play for their hometown team, etc. But we don't really see that. (The areas where we do sometimes see it, much more than in FA contracts, are in retirement/surgery decisions -- the final transition out of the driven athlete/entertainer lifestyle, for many of these guys. Gil Meche, Brad Radke, etc.)

[Litdus]

 

Ryu is not even close to an ace. He was a # 3 on the Dodgers. I don’t mind the Twins signing him, but he won’t solve our rotation problems.

 

I think the NL Cy Young runner-up and ERA leader can be considered an Ace

[Michigan Twins Fan]

 

 

 

That's not to say some entertainers can't be different, or have different priorities. But I'd caution against reading about Wheeler's and Bumgarner's choices this winter and drawing too many parallels to our non-entertainer lives -- as both Philly and Arizona were the high or near-high bidder, I suspect those might be more happy coincidences of the market rather than driving factors behind it.

 

If ballplayers were more truly "like us" in this regard, I suspect we'd see some really wacky contracts -- like someone taking dramatically less to go to a non-contender in a desired location, or to play for their hometown team, etc. But we don't really see that. (The areas where we do sometimes see it, much more than in FA contracts, are in retirement/surgery decisions -- the final transition out of the driven athlete/entertainer lifestyle, for many of these guys. Gil Meche, Brad Radke, etc.)

 

Rendon and Wheeler have both cited location as a primary concern. (In Rendon's case, the "LA lifestyle" was a legitimate concern for not signing with the Dodgers.) Wheeler turned down more money in Chicago to live in Philly, listing his in-law's home in NJ as a determining factor. Cliff Lee famously spurned a sweet deal from the Yankees because he wanted nothing to do with New York. For guys like Keuchel, whose market is a bit more depressed, money talks. For guys who have options, these personal concerns take center stage.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Rendon and Wheeler have both cited location as a primary concern. (In Rendon's case, the "LA lifestyle" was a legitimate concern for not signing with the Dodgers.) Wheeler turned down more money in Chicago to live in Philly, listing his in-law's home in NJ as a determining factor. Cliff Lee famously spurned a sweet deal from the Yankees because he wanted nothing to do with New York. For guys like Keuchel, whose market is a bit more depressed, money talks. For guys who have options, these personal concerns take center stage.

The Rendon example is pretty weak, in my opinion. Did anyone even match the Angels offer? I don't doubt he likes the "LA lifestyle" but saying something good about your new city/employer after signing is standard operating procedure -- even if it's true, it doesn't really offer any insight into the player's decision making process. If the Twins had thrown $250 mil at Rendon and signed him, I'm sure he would have said something nice about the midwest too, like he enjoyed the TV show "Fargo" or something. I bet even Ricky Nolasco withheld his contempt for the state when he first signed here!

 

Wheeler has a bit better case than that, although I'll remind that he signed with the better team, well above projections for his contract, and for only 2-3% off the high offer. He may really value game night with his future in-laws in New Jersey every Friday night, but the market certainly did not test his commitment to that principle above simply money and playing for the better team.

 

Yankee fans apparently spit on Cliff Lee's wife in the 2010 postseason, so that certainly didn't help their bargaining position that offseason! FWIW, both the Phillies and Rangers offered a higher AAV than the Yankees too, so it's not like Lee had zero financial incentive to spurn NY.

[Mr. Brooks]

The Rendon example is pretty weak, in my opinion. Did anyone even match the Angels offer? I don't doubt he likes the "LA lifestyle" but saying something good about your new city/employer after signing is standard operating procedure -- even if it's true, it doesn't really offer any insight into the player's decision making process. If the Twins had thrown $250 mil at Rendon and signed him, I'm sure he would have said something nice about the midwest too, like he enjoyed the TV show "Fargo" or something. I bet even Ricky Nolasco withheld his contempt for the state when he first signed here!

 

Wheeler has a bit better case than that, although I'll remind that he signed with the better team, well above projections for his contract, and for only 2-3% off the high offer. He may really value game night with his future in-laws in New Jersey every Friday night, but the market certainly did not test his commitment to that principle above simply money and playing for the better team.

 

Yankee fans apparently spit on Cliff Lee's wife in the 2010 postseason, so that certainly didn't help their bargaining position that offseason! FWIW, both the Phillies and Rangers offered a higher AAV than the Yankees too, so it's not like Lee had zero financial incentive to spurn NY.

Rendon wasn't complimenting his new city/team. The sources were saying that he DOESN'T like the LA lifestyle, and therefore wasn't interested in signing with the Dodgers.

 

And yes, I realize that Anaheim is just a short drive from LA, I'm just the messenger, maybe Rendon didn't know that!

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Rendon wasn't complimenting his new city/team. The sources were saying that he DOESN'T like the LA lifestyle, and therefore wasn't interested in signing with the Dodgers.

And yes, I realize that Anaheim is just a short drive from LA, I'm just the messenger, maybe Rendon didn't know that!

Ah got it. I misread.

 

Still, yeah, it seems 29 teams would have equal claim to not being LA -- most more than Anaheim!

 

I kinda doubt the Dodgers would have offered that kind of money either, which would make the point moot -- they do have the capacity to spend, but 3B seems like more of a want than a need for them at the moment, and they haven't been super-aggressive in FA lately.

[laloesch]

 

Berrios still can become an ace. They need to pay up and extend him.

Doesn't matter. The fact that he's turned down two extension offers so far and has not entered extended negotiations yet means he has no intention of staying in Minnesota. Might as well trade him now along with Sano and Buxton and start rebuilding again.

[Michigan Twins Fan]

 

The Rendon example is pretty weak, in my opinion. Did anyone even match the Angels offer? I don't doubt he likes the "LA lifestyle" but saying something good about your new city/employer after signing is standard operating procedure -- even if it's true, it doesn't really offer any insight into the player's decision making process. If the Twins had thrown $250 mil at Rendon and signed him, I'm sure he would have said something nice about the midwest too, like he enjoyed the TV show "Fargo" or something. I bet even Ricky Nolasco withheld his contempt for the state when he first signed here!

 

Wheeler has a bit better case than that, although I'll remind that he signed with the better team, well above projections for his contract, and for only 2-3% off the high offer. He may really value game night with his future in-laws in New Jersey every Friday night, but the market certainly did not test his commitment to that principle above simply money and playing for the better team.

 

Yankee fans apparently spit on Cliff Lee's wife in the 2010 postseason, so that certainly didn't help their bargaining position that offseason! FWIW, both the Phillies and Rangers offered a higher AAV than the Yankees too, so it's not like Lee had zero financial incentive to spurn NY.

I'm not sure that abrogating every example as an anomaly is the right tack. Garret Cole took the money. It was money that was never within the realm of possibility for the Twins. Some players are in it just for the money, but, like actors, if they are in demand, then they can be particular. Andrew Luck walked away because there is more to life for him than entertaining. Calvin Johnson, took. For that matter, Mauer had a few serviceable years ahead of him, but chose to call it quits. These people aren't automata. I think we do them a disservice assuming that they'll chase money. Would Wheeler have come to Minny if he were offered 150,000,000? Maybe. I doubt it, though. At the end of the day, you and are just talking past each other. I've seen enough demonstrable growth by this FO to assume goodwill, and there have been enough articles from "those who got away" for me to think that, for whatever reason, destination was an important factor in them not coming to Minneapolis. It sucks because it seems like we have a good thing going right now. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I'm not sure that abrogating every example as an anomaly is the right tack. Garret Cole took the money. It was money that was never within the realm of possibility for the Twins. Some players are in it just for the money, but, like actors, if they are in demand, then they can be particular. Andrew Luck walked away because there is more to life for him than entertaining. Calvin Johnson, took. For that matter, Mauer had a few serviceable years ahead of him, but chose to call it quits. These people aren't automata. I think we do them a disservice assuming that they'll chase money. Would Wheeler have come to Minny if he were offered 150,000,000? Maybe. I doubt it, though. At the end of the day, you and are just talking past each other. I've seen enough demonstrable growth by this FO to assume goodwill, and there have been enough articles from "those who got away" for me to think that, for whatever reason, destination was an important factor in them not coming to Minneapolis. It sucks because it seems like we have a good thing going right now. 

We are talking past each other a bit, and I apologize for that.

 

I'll just conclude this tangent by saying I'm not picking on the FO here at all -- I suspect that Bumgarner and Wheeler probably weren't worth 20% more than what they signed for (pending future Twins pitching moves, I hope!). I'm just commenting on players and contracts in general.