Front Page: Official Twins Winter Meetings Day 4 Thread

[RaoulDuke]

 

With Rendon and Simmons in the IF, Keuchel makes a lot of sense. He won't cost as much either. While Bumgarner and Ryu would be nice. They already have Pujols, Trout, and now Rendon on the books for close to 100 million. That makes me think Tehran would be the 2nd pitcher they prefer, or someone in that range who can pitch 180 innings

This is an overlooked factor to why the Twins pitching has suffered so much.  If you aren't going to have Cole/ Strasburg/ Ace dominating hitters, you can at least try to make contact pitchers better with a good defense.

 

The Twins have been long without a real ace, but have also been long without a good fielding right side of the infield to help the pitchers.  Hardy was good for a year or so otherwise they have been bereft of a +defender (that could hit his way out of a wet paper bag) at short or 3rd since Koskie???  (Credit to Escobar if he had been played at 3rd instead of short/ maybe Guzman I don't remember him being a great defender.)

 

I think Donaldson/ Rendon(rip)/ Chapman/ Arenado (fantasy)  would be an incredible boost to this team. 

 

Polanco hits his way into being a SS but he would be so much more valuable at 2nd.  Sano can play an ok 3rd for awhile but despite his ++arm is a 1b/ dh in truth, Arraez is a 2nd baseman, even Lewis/ Gordon prospects are red flag can they stick guys.

 

Adding a legit defender at 3rd is massive gain to this team and makes up some for an offense first SS.  

 

Donaldson/ Polanco/ Arraez/ Sano

 

 

[Aerodeliria]

Can't sign him until we modify the TD censor policy, apparently.

[Aerodeliria]

LOL...it's the "s" word if anyone was curious...

[Aerodeliria]

 

Another thought: do we really want Bert Blyleven pronouncing this name?

...not only the first name but he'll take a meat cleaver to the family name. The 'tsu' sound is tough on American tongues anyway, but double 'tsu-tsu' will cause pandemonium in the booth. (It will at least be amusing fodder for Twins Daily, though.)

[Doctor Wu]

The Red Sox went out and signed Martin Perez. No great loss, but at least they did something. Still waiting for that BIG Twins trade or signing. I'm starting to get the feeling it's going to be dumpster diving time again.

[prouster]

Um, the FO left themselves in position to have Berrios y nada entering the off season.

 

Um, We are now essentially sitting with the same team that got absolutely steam rolled in the playoffs minus Gibson with an at best even swap at backup catcher.

 

Uh, A chief rival added an absolute stud to their rotation.

 

Um, they misread the market early and failed to sign a second level pitcher before all the losers of the first level entered the competition to drive up prices.

 

So, um, uh, yeah, based on the goal of winning a WS, this off season is is a failure to date so far, albeit with a little time left on the clock for a hail marry signing.

 

If the goal is a 90 +/- 5 win team that gets pantsed in the 1st round of the playoffs.... then they are absolutely crushing it!

The Twins won 101 games last season. They got swept mainly because their bats went ice cold in the playoffs.

 

And, um, a little less mockery would, um, be nice. It’s only baseball.

[Tomj14]

 

. If he had been on, say, Atlanta last year and Falvey signed him, I’m guessing people would be a little more enthusiastic about him.
 

I don't believe that is true at all. If they signed his twin brother who was just as good as him from Atlanta to join him in the rotation people would be enthusiastic. I also think people are enthusiastic they brought him back.

But this isn't about Odo, this is about filling 5 spots in the rotation plus back up plans when pitchers are needed and it this point the pitchers that should be part of the back up plan are slated to be part of the solution and people are upset and rightfully so.

As it stand right now on 12/13/2019 the 2020 Twins starting rotation is Berrios, Odo, and 3 rookie pitchers and the back up plan for those are more minor league prospects for a team that won 101 games and its division. And that is frickin embarrassing.
 

[Tomj14]

 

The Twins won 101 games last season. They got swept mainly because their bats went ice cold in the playoffs.

And, um, a little less mockery would, um, be nice. It’s only baseball.

The Twins gave up 10 and 8 in the first two games and 5 in the third. I do agree there bats were not good, but expecting any team to score 11,9 and 6 to win is asking a lot.

[Major League Ready]

 

Remember, signing free agents to big contracts it stupid.....just look at the Nationals, Red Sox, Astros, Cubs, Giants, Yankees, or Phillies. They have only won 12 of the last 15 World Series titles. Morons (right, Phil Mackey?).

 

Could there be another reason besides competence that these teams spend more than the Twins. Just spitballing here but could the difference in landing the highest price free agents be that in 2018 these teams averaged $180M more in revenue than the Twins. I mean collectively these teams had over a billion dollars more revenue than the Twins for a single season. $1,260,000 actually. I going to go out on a limb and say that had something to do with it.

[SomeGuy]

 

The Twins gave up 10 and 8 in the first two games and 5 in the third. I do agree there bats were not good, but expecting any team to score 11,9 and 6 to win is asking a lot.

But we got nice starts from the returning Berrios and Odorizzi in games 1 and 3.  Combined 3 earned runs against the best offense.

 

And our hottest starting pitcher was serving a suspension.

[Tomj14]

 

But we got nice starts from the returning Berrios and Odorizzi in games 1 and 3.  Combined 3 earned runs against the best offense.

 

And our hottest starting pitcher was serving a suspension.

If nice is 7 base runners in 4 innings and a 5 innings start, then yes they got two nice starts. Basically both teams got the same results in those games.

[USAFChief]

The Twins won 101 games last season. They got swept mainly because their bats went ice cold in the playoffs.

 

And, um, a little less mockery would, um, be nice. It’s only baseball.

The Twins gave up 23 runs in 3 games to the Yankees. I think it's fair to say the pitching was the primary culprit. They started something called Randy Dobnak in game 2 in Yankee Stadium, ferpetesake.

[prouster]

The Twins gave up 23 runs in 3 games to the Yankees. I think it's fair to say the pitching was the primary culprit. They started something called Randy Dobnak in game 2 in Yankee Stadium, ferpetesake.

Dobnak definitely had a rough start. Game 1 wasn’t Berrios’ best effort, but it was the bullpen that let it get out of hand, largely because Baldelli made some questionable decisions as to who should pitch (no one seems to be worrying over the relievers, interestingly).

 

But the pitchers had virtually no wiggle room in games 2 and 3, when the Twins scored a combined three runs.

 

I’m not saying the they don’t need to add a starter. My point is that the rotation turned into an abomination the day the season ended. The front office hasn’t made any splashy moves, but they’ve done a lot to fill in most of a gaping pit. My secondary point is that it’s the middle of December, and there is plenty of time to sign someone and/or work the trade market. I’m pretty confident they aren’t finished.

[prouster]

The Twins gave up 10 and 8 in the first two games and 5 in the third. I do agree there bats were not good, but expecting any team to score 11,9 and 6 to win is asking a lot.

And expecting pitchers to give the team a chance when they score three runs over two games is also a lot. I agree the pitching wasn’t good, but Odorizzi and Berrios both kept the team in the game. It was Gibson and Stashak that blew it game one. May and Romo let it slip away in game three (the ten million stranded runners certainly didn’t help anything).

 

It was a shame Dobnak was the game two starter.

 

Edit: I forgot about Littell in game one.

[USAFChief]

Dobnak definitely had a rough start. Game 1 wasn’t Berrios’ best effort, but it was the bullpen that let it get out of hand, largely because Baldelli made some questionable decisions as to who should pitch (no one seems to be worrying over the relievers, interestingly).

 

But the pitchers had virtually no wiggle room in games 2 and 3, when the Twins scored a combined three runs.

 

I’m not saying the they don’t need to add a starter. My point is that the rotation turned into an abomination the day the season ended. The front office hasn’t made any splashy moves, but they’ve done a lot to fill in most of a gaping pit. My secondary point is that it’s the middle of December, and there is plenty of time to sign someone and/or work the trade market. I’m pretty confident they aren’t finished.

For the record, I'm worried about the relievers.

[prouster]

I don't believe that is true at all. If they signed his twin brother who was just as good as him from Atlanta to join him in the rotation people would be enthusiastic. I also think people are enthusiastic they brought him back.

But this isn't about Odo, this is about filling 5 spots in the rotation plus back up plans when pitchers are needed and it this point the pitchers that should be part of the back up plan are slated to be part of the solution and people are upset and rightfully so.

As it stand right now on 12/13/2019 the 2020 Twins starting rotation is Berrios, Odo, and 3 rookie pitchers and the back up plan for those are more minor league prospects for a team that won 101 games and its division. And that is frickin embarrassing.

 

You forgot about Pineda. And you’re right, this wouldn’t be a good rotation come late March. Good thing it’s only the middle of December.

[Major League Ready]

Are we blaming the FO for Pineada's suspension now?

[SpicyGarvSauce]

 

The Twins gave up 23 runs in 3 games to the Yankees. I think it's fair to say the pitching was the primary culprit. They started something called Randy Dobnak in game 2 in Yankee Stadium, ferpetesake.

But Dobnak is better than we think! Just look at his minor league numbers, and incredibly SSS at the major league level.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

The Twins won 101 games last season. They got swept mainly because their bats went ice cold in the playoffs.

 

 

The Twins gave up 10 and 8 in the first two games and 5 in the third. I do agree there bats were not good, but expecting any team to score 11,9 and 6 to win is asking a lot.

 

Let's stop the fussin' an' a-feudin' -- there is plenty of blame to go around for the Twins playoff losses! Arraez's defense and Baldelli's pen management demand a seat at the table too!

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Are we blaming the FO for Pineada's suspension now?

Obviously not.

 

But a modern playoff team needs 4 starters anyway, and the Twins didn't have that -- because in July, the FO bet on Berrios, Odorizzi, Pineda, and Gibson all being active, healthy, and good come October. (Or they bet on Dobnak or Smeltzer being ready to start a playoff game? That didn't turn out much better.)

[Battle ur tail off]

 

Dobnak definitely had a rough start. Game 1 wasn’t Berrios’ best effort, but it was the bullpen that let it get out of hand, largely because Baldelli made some questionable decisions as to who should pitch (no one seems to be worrying over the relievers, interestingly).

But the pitchers had virtually no wiggle room in games 2 and 3, when the Twins scored a combined three runs.
 

Almost every playoff game your pitching doesn't have much wiggle room. It is nip and tuck all through October. I agree, their bats weren't great, but the pitching just flat out wasn't competitive save for a handful of innings from Berrios and Ordorizi. Even in their starts, there was this feel that the Yankees were just waiting for them to make mistakes and pounce. Eventually it happened when they couldn't execute "pitchers" pitches and had to groove. 

[Tomj14]

 

You forgot about Pineda. And you’re right, this wouldn’t be a good rotation come late March. Good thing it’s only the middle of December.

I didn't forget about Pineda he is out for 39 games, which is a 1/4 of the season. They could be 12 -28 and out of it, or not. But the odds say they will be worse than better with 3 rookie pitchers.

[Tomj14]

 

 

And expecting pitchers to give the team a chance when they score three runs over two games is also a lot. I agree the pitching wasn’t good, but Odorizzi and Berrios both kept the team in the game. It was Gibson and Stashak that blew it game one. May and Romo let it slip away in game three (the ten million stranded runners certainly didn’t help anything).

It was a shame Dobnak was the game two starter.

Edit: I forgot about Littell in game one.

Berrios kept them in the game for 4 innings, less than half the game, Odo for 5 innings just barely over half of the game.

But I agree with spycake, there is blame to be placed everywhere from the owner down to the players.

[prouster]

Berrios kept them in the game for 4 innings, less than half the game, Odo for 5 innings just barely over half of the game.

But I agree with spycake, there is blame to be placed everywhere from the owner down to the players.

I agree that seems to be the takeaway. We could maybe call it a total system failure?

[prouster]

Let's stop the fussin' an' a-feudin' -- there is plenty of blame to go around for the Twins playoff losses! Arraez's defense and Baldelli's pen management demand a seat at the table too!

Don’t forget about Cron missing a routine throw that ruined an important double play.

[nicksaviking]

 

Uh, A chief rival added an absolute stud to their rotation.

 

Um, they misread the market early and failed to sign a second level pitcher before all the losers of the first level entered the competition to drive up prices.

 

 

Well I want some action, and if the rotation doesn't improve I'm not going to be happy, but I don't want to counter the Yankees adding a stud with 2nd level pitchers. This team has tried that most of the last decade. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Don’t forget about Cron missing a routine throw that ruined an important double play.

It was really a team effort, and we can all be proud of that.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I just saw on NHK News here in Japan that posted player Yo****omo Tsutsugo of the DeNa Baystars is interested in four teams: the Blue Jay's, the Pale Hose, the Tigers and the Twins. They usually get this info directly from the player, so I'm sure this is correct. (He's a left-handed power hitter, who hits to all fields. He hit .272 last year. He strikes out but also takes his share of BBs. He's quite strong and a better fielder than Cron.

And Yo****omo Tsutsugo ("he who shall not be named"?) is off the board -- 2/12 deal with Tampa (plus a $2.4 mil posting/release fee):

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/12/rays-sign-yo****omo-tsutsugo-japanese-slugger-npb.html

[Danchat]

The Red Sox went out and signed Martin Perez. No great loss, but at least they did something. Still waiting for that BIG Twins trade or signing. I'm starting to get the feeling it's going to be dumpster diving time again.

I’ll bet Red Sox fans are accusing management of dumpster diving for Perez and Peraza! I’d rather sign nobody over below replacement level guys.

[SomeGuy]

 

If nice is 7 base runners in 4 innings and a 5 innings start, then yes they got two nice starts. Basically both teams got the same results in those games.

The starting pitchers did their part. Odorizzi left at 82 pitches by the way, being pulled in that situation is out of his control. 

 

Saying that we can't win with those results from our starters is false.