Heyman: Twins "Heavy on Bumgarner"

[howeda7]

 

OK, they are signed. 

 

Time to make that offer. I don't see them bidding him up. I see him signing for 5/110. Twins will offer 5/100 or 5/90. 

 

They have to realize their only leverage is offering more money. 5/120 and he's a Twin right now without question. 

If he's your guy, you can't let an extra $2-4 million/year stand in your way. Yes, it's too much for him. Yes, his contract will likely be dead weight in 2023/24. This is about winning in 2020 and 2021. Period.

[alphanumeric]

 

MLB players spend 7 months doing nothing but traveling and playing baseball. I don't get why it matters where they play, other than taxes. Plus, he won't even need to be in MN during the winter of he doesn't want to... but I'd be down to take him ice fishing and it might change his mind about Minnesota in the winter.

 Yeah I really don't understand it either or how much of a factor it really is..  Then you got the flip side of the argument where in July-September in Minn it's a beautiful 80-85 degrees compared to mid 90's and worse in a lot of other parts of the country.

[Mr. Brooks]

Giving the wives some credit, though, I think even they realize that their husband is only spending ~93 days a year in their home team's city, and 81 of those are "working days" where their husband is at the ballpark for considerable time (and often until 11 PM or later). So really, the difference is ~12 days a year, spread out over 6 months. Even that might overstate it -- the biggest stretch is the 3-4 days of the all-star break, and that can easily be spent anywhere. And even if his "home games" are elsewhere, the player may have road games / off days near his home too, even if he can't fly home for every off day.

 

Outside of extreme cases like, say, Stephen Piscotty, it's probably not a huge factor, even for families. I'm sure it's definitely a preference, but I suspect it often gets exaggerated as a factor in cases like Wheeler's. (Especially in Wheeler's case, as there are no kids in his family yet -- not even a wife, technically, as she's still his fiancé, although I won't quibble too much about that distinction! )

Even if they're at the park until 11 PM, I'm guessing being able to sleep in the same bed those 93 nights is preferential to not.

 

Then again, I don't know why anyone wouldn't want to live in Minnesota in the Summer, and these guys can easily afford homes in both locations.

[SmellEm]

 

I don’t understand those two tweets. Bumgarner is a bit cold on Minnesota (pun!) but people close to him are saying no, Minnesota is a really cool place (I did it again!)

But seriously, someone make sense of that for me, I’m lost.

 

The tweets saying he wouldn't like to come to Minnesota are from the FO leaking to local reporters as an excuse to why they're not going to sign him. His agents are leaking info to national reporters telling them that sure, he'd love to play here because the more teams in on him, the more money he gets.  

[nicksaviking]

 

Even if they're at the park until 11 PM, I'm guessing being able to sleep in the same bed those 93 nights is preferential to not.

Then again, I don't know why anyone wouldn't want to live in Minnesota in the Summer, and these guys can easily afford homes in both locations.

 

Yeah, I can promise that telling my wife that since it's a workday I'm not going to watch the kids, run errands, do yard work, chores, fix anything or pay any attention to the family whatsoever after work isn't going to fly at my house. My day neither starts or ends at work.

 

Also, I'm guessing not many baseball wives are fine living apart from their husbands for five months while he chills with his bachelor teammates all summer.

[sweetmusicviola16]

 

 Yeah I really don't understand it either or how much of a factor it really is..  Then you got the flip side of the argument where in July-September in Minn it's a beautiful 80-85 degrees compared to mid 90's and worse in a lot of other parts of the country.

Actually May and June are pretty nice here too. I more prefer that time of year since the weather is nice and we don't have much for bugs yet.

[prouster]

The tweets saying he wouldn't like to come to Minnesota are from the FO leaking to local reporters as an excuse to why they're not going to sign him. His agents are leaking info to national reporters telling them that sure, he'd love to play here because the more teams in on him, the more money he gets.

If both reports are deceptions, then I guess they cancel each other out and nothing can be true. The other possibility is that he has never heard of Minnesota and has no preference one way or the other. He’s exactly neutral.

[nicksaviking]

 

The tweets saying he wouldn't like to come to Minnesota are from the FO leaking to local reporters as an excuse to why they're not going to sign him. His agents are leaking info to national reporters telling them that sure, he'd love to play here because the more teams in on him, the more money he gets.  

 

I have a complete lack of understanding why people absolutely feel the need to blame somebody. Sometimes things just suck, the upper midwest being the butt of national jokes and inaccurate perceptions is one of those things. 

[Riverbrian]

The only thing I can do is try to imagine how I would react to similar circumstances.

 

If I was Madison Bumgarner... This is my first chance to control my fate... choose my team. I'm not giving that up and I'm taking it very seriously. 

 

Yes Money would have to be a factor (to a point) for me. And it would probably be the first filter to run teams through. I'm not signing for 20 million if I have 100 million on the table but 90 million with 100 million on the table wouldn't matter that much to me.  

 

I imagine that once I filter the money through and get a list of teams willing to go to certain area of compensation. 

 

My tiebreakers in order would then be:

 

1. Who am I working with? The manager, the GM, the coaching staff, the players. What will my work environment be like? Is the GM signing me because he is on the hot seat. Is the manager on the hot seat? Does the pitching coach have a good track record, does he call you at 4 in the morning? Do the players produce a fun environment. I don't want to go to a library to play baseball because it's a few million more. 

 

2. Will the team be competitive for the long haul? I don't want to lock into 5 years with a club that is about to fall off a cliff. Again... Is the GM or Manager on the hot seat? 

 

3. Location, Do I like the bright lights of New York City or the relatively quiet of Minnesota or San Diego. 

 

Once I run the process through those 3 filters and pick out a favorite destination. Then I can circle back to that preferred team and talk about the 90 million they are offering and tell them that all they have to do is take that 90 million and raise it to 100 million and I'm signing. If the team won't budge... I'll have to ask myself if that 10 million matters? 

 

I imagine with me... I would need to be recruited... it would require salesmanship from the baseball team. I'd want to meet with the pitching coach and the manager and the front office. I would like to interview them.  

 

I would want to be comfortable with the people who will I be placing my trust in. 

 

This is the first time I will be allowed to make this type of decision. When I sign with someone, I give that freedom up again. To give that up... it will require trust in who I'm giving it to. 

[howeda7]

 

There were insider predictions that Bumgarner would sign before the winter meetings.

That was their chance.

Now with Wheeler and the big two signed, Bumgarner holds all the cards.

Yep. When you have weather, geography etc. against you, you have to be aggressive. Even if it means striking early and over-paying. Favline is good at a lot of things. Being aggressive at the trade deadline and in FA do not appear to be among them.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Even if they're at the park until 11 PM, I'm guessing being able to sleep in the same bed those 93 nights is preferential to not.

Then again, I don't know why anyone wouldn't want to live in Minnesota in the Summer, and these guys can easily afford homes in both locations.

True, although the post to which I was responding seemed to lean heavily on kids/parenting duties. But there are certainly other factors to a relationship!

 

Good point on the multiple homes -- with these kinds of incomes, having a second home in your team's city is probably nearly universal. Might not help the family during school months if they have kids, but during the non-school summer months the whole family could be together there quite often.

[goulik]

For all those that don’t put credence to family having an impact, why is it that players tend to buy a home and move their families at least seasonally to the home town of the team they play for in all the major sports even when it is only a 3 year contract?

 

If we get a big name free agent, there will be a home bought or built here and the family will live here at least part of the year. Could they do it differently? I suppose but I’ve never heard of any athletes core family not living at least part time in the home teams City.

[Lasorda_This_Out]

Agree with comments about location and league....it's the Dodgers to lose.

And ditto about Ryu..only he will probably leave the Dodgers..?

[DocBauer]

The only thing I can do is try to imagine how I would react to similar circumstances.

 

If I was Madison Bumgarner... This is my first chance to control my fate... choose my team. I'm not giving that up and I'm taking it very seriously.

 

Yes Money would have to be a factor (to a point) for me. And it would probably be the first filter to run teams through. I'm not signing for 20 million if I have 100 million on the table but 90 million with 100 million on the table wouldn't matter that much to me.

 

I imagine that once I filter the money through and get a list of teams willing to go to certain area of compensation.

 

My tiebreakers in order would then be:

 

1. Who am I working with? The manager, the GM, the coaching staff, the players. What will my work environment be like? Is the GM signing me because he is on the hot seat. Is the manager on the hot seat? Does the pitching coach have a good track record, does he call you at 4 in the morning? Do the players produce a fun environment. I don't want to go to a library to play baseball because it's a few million more.

 

2. Will the team be competitive for the long haul? I don't want to lock into 5 years with a club that is about to fall off a cliff. Again... Is the GM or Manager on the hot seat?

 

3. Location, Do I like the bright lights of New York City or the relatively quiet of Minnesota or San Diego.

 

Once I run the process through those 3 filters and pick out a favorite destination. Then I can circle back to that preferred team and talk about the 90 million they are offering and tell them that all they have to do is take that 90 million and raise it to 100 million and I'm signing. If the team won't budge... I'll have to ask myself if that 10 million matters?

 

I imagine with me... I would need to be recruited... it would require salesmanship from the baseball team. I'd want to meet with the pitching coach and the manager and the front office. I would like to interview them.

 

I would want to be comfortable with the people who will I be placing my trust in.

 

This is the first time I will be allowed to make this type of decision. When I sign with someone, I give that freedom up again. To give that up... it will require trust in who I'm giving it to.

Outstanding!!

 

And that is exactly how these guys SHOULD approach their decision. And if they do, consider the following:

 

1] Twins are coming off 101 win season.

 

2] They have a FO that is progressive and locked in for the next 5 years.

 

3] The core of this 101 win team isn't going anywhere soon and the milb system is one of the best and deepest in MLB.

 

4] The manager is young, progressive, a players manager and the current MOY. The pitching coach is the same and well respected.

 

5] Target Field is one of the most beautiful ballparks around.

 

Really, what's not positive here?

 

If a ballplayer is really drawn by family proximity, or is simply drawn to a huge city like NY, LA, Chicago, Boston, etc, fine. Their preference and decision.

 

But if they hold some belief that the Twin Cities is a backwater town without culture and diversity set amidst cornfields somewhere, then shame on them.

 

And unless the plan is to live there year round, weather really shouldn't be an issue. With little exception, the weather here in the midwest is pretty nice from late April through the first couple weeks of October. Is it sunny and 85 every single day? No. But to believe weather is poor is just not accurate.

[DocBauer]

For all those that don’t put credence to family having an impact, why is it that players tend to buy a home and move their families at least seasonally to the home town of the team they play for in all the major sports even when it is only a 3 year contract?

 

If we get a big name free agent, there will be a home bought or built here and the family will live here at least part of the year. Could they do it differently? I suppose but I’ve never heard of any athletes core family not living at least part time in the home teams City.

Forgive me if it sounds as though I'm arguing with you, because that is not the point I'm trying to make. Many athletes do enjoy two homes, if not more. You always sort of hope players on your team fall in love with their city and remain there for events, charity work, etc. But most upper to top echelon players enjoy various residences to be sure. Joe Mauer, midwest born and raised, has a home in Florida and has for some time I believe.

 

But as I stated above, it is naive and shortsighted if a player, and his family, consider living in the midwest from April to October some sort of cold, barren burden. Pretty sure it gets cold and nast in Chicago, NY and Boston. If they really want California and Florida weather year round, for example, nothing you can do to change that. Proximity to family and just wanting to live in a huge metropolitan environment is a different matter. But IMO, weather shouldn't be an issue.

[Riverbrian]

 

I see a scenario actually. The Dodgers have been loathe to offer long term deals lately. Say they will max out at three years but a higher AAV, but Bumgarner still prefers the security of a five year deal with the Twins, maybe.

But I’m not very high on Bumgarner to begin with. If he only comes for the money and resents a preferred destination didn't give him what he wanted, I’d be completely out.

 

I could be wrong but I think Friedman is too disciplined to outbid others just because he can. 

 

[goulik]

Forgive me if it sounds as though I'm arguing with you, because that is not the point I'm trying to make. Many athletes do enjoy two homes, if not more. You always sort of hope players on your team fall in love with their city and remain there for events, charity work, etc. But most upper to top echelon players enjoy various residences to be sure. Joe Mauer, midwest born and raised, has a home in Florida and has for some time I believe.

But as I stated above, it is naive and shortsighted if a player, and his family, consider living in the midwest from April to October some sort of cold, barren burden. Pretty sure it gets cold and nast in Chicago, NY and Boston. If they really want California and Florida weather year round, for example, nothing you can do to change that. Proximity to family and just wanting to live in a huge metropolitan environment is a different matter. But IMO, weather shouldn't be an issue.

I agree and my post about the wife and player talking was partially tongue in cheek but as others have said, there is a lot of ignorance on the coasts about the Midwest.

[Otto von Ballpark]

For all those that don’t put credence to family having an impact, why is it that players tend to buy a home and move their families at least seasonally to the home town of the team they play for in all the major sports even when it is only a 3 year contract?

 

If we get a big name free agent, there will be a home bought or built here and the family will live here at least part of the year. Could they do it differently? I suppose but I’ve never heard of any athletes core family not living at least part time in the home teams City.

Don't multiple seasonal homes suggest that it's *not* as big of a deal as it's made out to be? That the family will still live together, mostly the same, regardless of where the player signs?

[sweetmusicviola16]

Look for Anthony Rendon to be an LA Angel very soon.

[goulik]

Don't multiple seasonal homes suggest that it's *not* as big of a deal as it's made out to be? That the family will still live together, mostly the same, regardless of where the player signs?

Fair enough on the surface but if you had all that dough, would you not choose where you and your wife wanted to be? It may not be the only factor but for some players it is the biggest factor. Why are people even arguing about this? We all do it. We live where we want to live and usually we find jobs where we want to live!

 

We’re the 16th biggest metropolitan area in the US or something like that? Isn’t that because all those other people prefer those 15 other bigger cities over Minnesota? I chose here. Most people dont

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Fair enough on the surface but if you had all that dough, would you not choose where you and your wife wanted to be? It may not be the only factor but for some players it is the biggest factor. Why are people even arguing about this? We all do it. We live where we want to live and usually we find jobs where we want to live!

We’re the 16th biggest metropolitan area in the US or something like that? Isn’t that because all those other people prefer those 15 other bigger cities over Minnesota? I chose here. Most people dont

I'm sure it's a factor, but I simply think it gets exaggerated in most cases. (Especially in a case like Wheeler's where no kids are involved.)

 

And to the claim that "we all do it", that's true, you and I likely do it -- but you and I also haven't chosen pro sports as our life's ambition. These guys have basically been training for this vocation since childhood, and pursuing their dream in far-flung college and minor league destinations for years. Why would we assume that suddenly around age 30 their priorities would align with ours? And before you say "because they finally have a ton of money" -- remember, these guys are still conveniently almost always signing with the high bidder regardless (Wheeler signed for maybe 2% less than the high bid, to go to a clearly better team to boot), *and* that same money allows them to live a lifestyle where they don't need to "work" close to home to stay close with family.

 

There certainly don't seem to be examples of players taking even, say, 5/100, while spurning offers of 5/120, to go to a preferred destination. When the difference is $2 mil, I'd say it's more of a convenience than a primary factor.

[dex8425]

I can't imagine Madison Bumgarner pitching for the Dodgers. On the same staff as Kershaw. The Dodgers even play the Giants opening day. 

Doesn't Madbum hate the Dodgers? I can't imagine the Giant fans appreciating Madbum pitching for the Dodgers against the Giants either. No way the Giants let Madbum go to the Dodgers. 

 

This would be like Brett Favre playing for the...wait, nevermind. 

[USAFChief]

MLBTradeRumors: "Mutual Interest Between Dodgers And Bumgarner."

 

Cross him off the list.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Maybe we were too "heavy" on him?

[jctwins]

 

MLBTradeRumors: "Mutual Interest Between Dodgers And Bumgarner."

Cross him off the list.

 

Sigh.

 

 

[gil4]

 

Yeah, I can promise that telling my wife that since it's a workday I'm not going to watch the kids, run errands, do yard work, chores, fix anything or pay any attention to the family whatsoever after work isn't going to fly at my house. 

I'm sure if you could write a few checks that amount to a rounding error on your paycheck to cover most of that stuff there wouldn't be a lot of pushback. 

[Battle ur tail off]

 

MLBTradeRumors: "Mutual Interest Between Dodgers And Bumgarner."

Cross him off the list.

 

If we have not signed him and or any of the guys left that are worth a snort by now, it is surely because they are out fishing for higher money deals from the bigger clubs. 

 

I will go ahead and act as if I know something like half our Twins covered media does and tell you my sources say the Twins are "OUT" on Madbum, Ryu, Donaldson, and Keuchel.