Front Page: Official Twins Winter Meetings Day 2 Thread

[Seth Stohs]

Day 1 of the Winter Meetings came and went. There was a major signing. Stephen Strasburg returned to the Nationals. But for the Twins and their fans, Day 1 was incredibly quiet. Maybe Day 2 will bring more rumors for discussion. Here is the place to discuss any Twins rumors throughout the day.It was a pretty quiet day, but here are some of the Day 1 Discussions:

 

Madison Bumgarner and Hyun-Jin Ryu

 

Shock and Awe were felt by most around baseball when new broke that Stephen Strasburg had an agreement to return to the Washington Nationals for seven years and $245 million. That was believed to be what the Yankees were going to offer Gerrit Cole. Now, we can only imagine what Cole (and Scott Boras) will command for his services .

 

But does the Strasburg contract affect what Bumgarner and Ryu will get? In my opinion, it shouldn't, though their agents certainly will try to tie it together. In reality, Bumgarner and Ryu are still more closely connected with Zack Wheeler's five-year, $118 million contract.

 

Bumgarner's side let it be known that they are now expecting five years and at least $100 million. That's understandable. The Phillies paid for what they hope Wheeler might become, but certainly hasn't been to this point. Bumgarner has every right to point out that he has actually been an ace in the past, and while that was a few years ago, he's earned a contract similar in length and dollars.

 

The Twins are one of about eight to ten teams to express interest in Bumgarner. The White Sox and Reds and Cardinals are among interested teams, and Bumgarner will meet with the Giants this week too.

 

It would seem that the Twins are interested in both, but maybe even slightly more interested in Ryu over Bumgarner, potentially because he might command fewer years due to his age.

 

 

But, What About...

 

While the teams appear to be focusing on Bumgarner and Ryu, Dallas Keuchel is again a free agent. He's about a year younger than Ryu.

 

Would the Twins consider jumping to Dallas Keuchel in an attempt to add a veteran starter of nearly the same ilk? Would Keuchel consider a one-year, $18 million deal (like Hamels did), or could he be available for two-years at $36 million, or even three years and $51 million? After his free agent experience a year ago, could he be interested in signing quickly this offseason?

 

As a side advantage to this, Keuchel would not cost the Twins a draft pick.

Just a thought...

 

 

The Twins could leave one rotation spot for one of their young starters, or they could fill in while Michael Pineda finishes his suspension.

 

 

 

First Base Internal Options

 

When Derek Falvey met with Twin Cities reporters, he said that Brent Rooker and Luke Raley could be first base options in spring training. And Alex Kirilloff is just a step behind them.

 

 

 

Isn't He Handsome?

 

The recently-engaged Rocco Baldelli ranked #1 in the Most Handsome Manager list, via Craig Calcaterra. So he's got that going for him.

 

 

A Romo Return?

 

 

There are several teams interested in Sergio Romo. He really helped stabilize the Twins bullpen after he was acquired from the Marlins at the July deadline. His slider generally proved really good. He won't cost much, so I don't think that it would be spendy to add him. The only concern is the 87 mph fastball and the home run ball. He's been successful, but he can be nerve-wracking.

 

Seems Romo is the only reliever that the Twins have been linked to in any way. One would think they might have interest in at adding at least one more veteran type. Then again, there have not been a lot of free agent reliever rumors to this point either. We haven't heard rumors regarding the likes of Will Harris or Daniel Hudson or Dellin Betances.

 

 

The Return of Wilfredo

 

According to reports, the Twins have signed infielder Wilfredo Tovar. He played nine games for the Mets in 2013-14 and returned to the big leagues for 31 games with the Angels in 2019. The 28-year-old played in 125 games for the Rochester Red Wings in 2016.

 

 

So there are some topics to get the Day 2 conversation started. Will there be more Twins rumors? Will there be any signings by the Twins? Will Tuesday be the day Gerrit Cole picks a team?

 

Click here to view the article

[diehardtwinsfan]

Please say no to Keuchel. That one scares me. 

 

 

[beckmt]

Please just sign Cole, whatever it takes.  It takes an ace to win a World Series these days and good pitching seems to always beat good hitting in the playoffs.  Have not seen a pitcher I would want to get from a bad club at this time.  And bad clubs are always looking for mistakes or overpays for their better talent.  

[bunsen82]

At this point I say sit back and wait.  We got done the 2 deals that needed to be done, in Pineda and Odorizzi.  I honestly thought the Odorizzi deal was a slight overpay for a year, but the way this free agency is going, that is looking like a very good contract.   The Pineda deal just befuddles me.  He should have gotten much more than 2 for 20.   I think really the way this market is going 2 for 27.5 (essentially 2.5 off for the suspension).  

 

The market could continue to be crazy which I think it will be for the top starters.  I think we will be happy that we were able to get Odorizzi and Pineda back by the end of the week.  Cole will go for crazy money, I think Bumgarner will go close to 96 million and Ryu at 84 for 4.  If there is a deal I would do its Ryu but that is a lot of money for a slightly unreliable arm. 

 

I think once we get to the middle tier there will be value again.  Right now I just don't think is ripe to pick off a top line starter.  An opportunity will come, likely through trade sometime this year (assuming we are still in contention) then we can use some assets to get the arm we want.  I would get incremental value on free agent signings with one more SP and 2 more RP.  I would do an infielder, but Falvey is playing coy and acting like we will fill that from within.  We will see.

 

[Seth Stohs]

 

Please say no to Keuchel. That one scares me. 

 

Out of curiosity, why would Keuchel scare you (or others) more than Ryu or Bumgarner?

[twinkiesfan11]

After seeing the Strasburg, Wheeler and Gibson contacts and Bumgarner's demands that were leaked yesterday I feel like the best course of action would be to pursue a trade with the fallback of not more than a 2 year contract for Keuchel if he'd agree to it. Bumgarner and Ryu are not worth overpaying for in AAV or Years so better to patch the rotation together with veteran mid rotation starters year to year until the prospects are ready or a better opportunity to sign or trade for an ace presents itself. 

 

Berrios, Odorizzi, Keuchel, Pineda and Dobnak would still be a very solid rotation. 

[Seth Stohs]

Such a great point... 

 

 

[nicksaviking]

 

Out of curiosity, why would Keuchel scare you (or others) more than Ryu or Bumgarner?

 

The left side of the Twins infield.

 

If I'm paying good money, I want starting pitchers who can get outs all on their own.

 

Which is why I'm starting to lean toward signing Rich Hill.

 

Please everybody, don't kill me, I have a family!

[nicksaviking]

 

I'd like to know if Falvey specifically mentioned those names, or if Park mentioned these guys and Falvey agreed they were possibilities.

 

I wonder because I don't like that Graterol isn't included in that list. 

[USAFChief]

 

Such a great point... 

 

Right...using Darvish, Ohtani, and Wheeler as examples of the Twins new willingness to sign free agents. The Cubs, Angels and Phillies concur.

[Monkeypaws]

 

Such a great point... 

 

 

Darn. Pulling the wool over people's eyes and half-truths are my speciality. (crumples up Twins resume and throws in trash.)

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Phil Mackey wishes to call me and other fans morons. Fine.

 

I just do not understand how so many media figures in this market have such contempt for their fans.

[Vanimal46]

Such a great point...

 

https://twitter.com/SKORNorth/status/1204413840022278144

Being “in” on a player does nothing for me. Maybe other fans think it’s neat to read reports that the Twins spoke to Zack Wheeler. I’m not that fan.

 

A perfect way to eliminate this perception that the Twins never sign big time free agents is to actually sign one! Just one is a really, really good start.

 

The regime is different, but the tactics remain the same for free agency. Will I also get a bunch of positive press for continuing to go to a car dealership and offer $10,000 below MSRP to the salesman?

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Out of curiosity, why would Keuchel scare you (or others) more than Ryu or Bumgarner?

 

He's a command/control guy without exceptional stuff... that goes, he goes, and at his age that's more likely than not.

 

I mentioned in another post that I'm not too excited about Ryu or Madbum either. I've soured more on MadBum especially due to Ted's recent piece. Ryu due to health. Right now, I'm probably on the Ryu bandwagon if Cole doesn't happen. 

[dex8425]

 

Such a great point... 

 

I will be absolutely floored if we sign Madbum, Kuechel or Ryu.

 

I don't think the predominant sentiment (at least on this site) is that the Twins are actively trying to make offers and get rejected to say "oh, we tried."  I think we are in the agreement that they are more concerned with overpaying or "getting a good value" than they are with winning in 2020.

 

Sometimes you have to overpay to chase a championship when the window is open. I think most serious Twins fans would be okay with overpaying to sign Cole. Or Madbum. The understanding is that you won't be getting your money's worth for the whole length of that contract, but you had to overpay to outbid other teams, and it's worth it if you really need elite SP in 2020-2021.  

[prouster]

Phil Mackey wishes to call me and other fans morons. Fine.

 

I just do not understand how so many media figures in this market have such contempt for their fans.

Well, a few fans probably make it pretty easy for him to feel this way.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I mean, look at how badly we needed a starting pitcher in the ALDS.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Well, a few fans probably make it pretty easy for him to feel this way.

Agree. But it’s Twitter and he needs to take it with a grain of salt.

[CharlieDee]

 

Such a great point... 

 

  Good enough... But Falvey is the one who said the Twins "will strike" when the window is open. The fans didn't say that, Falvey did.....So if the Twins sign no new starters, are you going to apologize?

[Alex Schieferdecker]

I understand the interest in Bumgarner from a standpoint of age and playoff success. I understand the worry about Ryu's injury history.

 

But over the past few years, Ryu has been one of the. most. effective. pitchers. in all of baseball. That's gotta count for something, right?

[HawksNest]

It's pretty simple really....If you want to play in Free Agency, you HAVE to wrap your head around the fact that you are going to be locking yourself into a "dumb" contract more than likely. Not sure if Falvine are there or ever will be.

 

That's just the way it is. You're going to have to overpay 9 times out of 10. Not a lot of "good" deals to be had in free agency with the upper echelon names.

 

Seems like this front office is obsessed with getting "good" deals and ensuring we have financial flexibility as opposed to just going for it, even if it means years 3, 4, and 5 of a five year deal may be rough. This is not a bad approach if you're not a contending team. 

 

We're constantly told to value short term deals and the financial flexibility it affords. I'm not really sure what the financial flexibility is good for if you never actually use the "flexibility".

[SmellEm]

 

Such a great point... 

 

My girlfriend will be happy to know that despite the fact I didn't get her anything for Christmas I actually made several unsuccessful Ebay bids for really nice gifts she would have loved!

[Dman]

 

Such a great point... 

 

 

I don't know if it is negativity as much as disappointment.  Like expecting or hoping to get an Iphone for Christmas for the last ten years and getting a flip phone every year instead.  The flip phone gets the job done but isn't elite like the I-phone.

 

 

I am not saying the FO is wrong not to take on some of these deals but I really thought given how the market worked out the last few years that we had a really good chance at a decent deal with one of the tier two starters.  Given the years and dollars or both plus teams with an inside track to resign those players things look grim for upgrading the rotation IMO. 

 

 

While our pitching might be good enough to win the division or manage a wild card berth it doesn't look capable of handling teams in the playoffs.  The window is open and we are close it would have been nice to find a pitcher to give us a chance to get over the hump.

[Brandon]

I'm not going to say anything he Twins never sign impact free agents. It's just rare. Nelson Cruz says hello by the way...

[watchdog]

 

Such a great point...

 

 

 

 

Great point? How much Twins’ Kool Aid have journalists/reporters drunk?

 

I would be happy to eat crow if the Twins sign a big name free agent but nothing in their track record indicates that fans should not be very skeptical.

 

What was the offer to Wheeler? I though I read it was reported to be 100M and he signed for 118M? Same type of situation with Darvish, right? I would guess the same would be true for Ohtani.

[dex8425]

 

 

 

But over the past few years, Ryu has been one of the. most. effective. pitchers. in all of baseball. That's gotta count for something, right?

I would say the statement about Ryu is incorrect, since he's only pitched 180 innings twice in the last seven years. Last year he was one of the most effective pitchers in all of baseball. He has had two good years. One was last year, and the other was his rookie season at age 26. The other years he either didn't pitch at all or missed a ton of starts. He was also not effective in the postseason in 2018 and 2019= one quality start in four starts. 

 

He has been pretty good, when healthy, in the regular season.  I'm convinced the FO is pursuing him because they're chasing a good deal. I hope he proves me wrong and stays healthy wherever he goes, but I'd rather have Madbum. 

[jhoffman]

"Strike when the window is open"... what if the best shortstop in baseball can be had for Arraez, Lewis, and Rooker? Who can offer the Indians a better prospect package that is expendable with Lindor fixing both short and second long term by moving Polanco to second? If Sano is the 1st baseman of the future, Rooker is certainly expendable also. Instead of spending foolish money on marginal free agent pitching, extend Lindor for 7 years at 35 million/year (and spend the 35 million all the experts expect the Twins to increase their payroll by) and Lindor gets the money now instead of in 2 years and he doesn't risk a career ending injury. Then trade Rosario for Jon Gray, extend him for 3 years at 15 million/ year and roll the dice with either Kirilloff or Larnach in left. Sign Thames for first and leave Sano at third. Twins have 6 candidates for a 5th starter until Pineda comes back with Grateral, Smeltzer, Littell, Thorpe, Dobnak, and Romero and back ups at AA or AAA with Balazovic and Duran which is why I wouldn't spend the money on free agent pitching. One of them is bound to be very good.

[dex8425]

 

"Strike when the window is open"... what if the best shortstop in baseball can be had for Arraez, Lewis, and Rooker? Who can offer the Indians a better prospect package that is expendable with Lindor fixing both short and second long term by moving Polanco to second? If Sano is the 1st baseman of the future, Rooker is certainly expendable also. Instead of spending foolish money on marginal free agent pitching, extend Lindor for 7 years at 35 million/year (and spend the 35 million all the experts expect the Twins to increase their payroll by) and Lindor gets the money now instead of in 2 years and he doesn't risk a career ending injury. Then trade Rosario for Jon Gray, extend him for 3 years at 15 million/ year and roll the dice with either Kirilloff or Larnach in left. Sign Thames for first and leave Sano at third. Twins have 6 candidates for a 5th starter until Pineda comes back with Grateral, Smeltzer, Littell, Thorpe, Dobnak, and Romero and back ups at AA or AAA with Balazovic and Duran which is why I wouldn't spend the money on free agent pitching. One of them is bound to be very good.

 

Few problems with this scenario. Assuming the Rockies would actually trade Jon Gray, you are way overvaluing Rosario. They might do Buxton for Gray. Or Gray for Arraez and Rosario.

 

Littell is not going back to a starting role. 

 

I highly doubt the Indians would trade Lindor to the team competing for their division title in 2020-2021. I think that offer is fair though, or maybe even a little high, for two years of Lindor. 

 

But mostly, I'm not sure that makes the Twins better. Primary need is starting pitching, preferably someone better than or equal to Odo and Berrios. Secondary need is someone at first better than 2019 CJ Cron. None of our AA or AAA guys are ready for a #3 rotation spot in 2020. 

[bird]

 

My girlfriend will be happy to know that despite the fact I didn't get her anything for Christmas I actually made several unsuccessful Ebay bids for really nice gifts she would have loved!

 

 

Can I see a pic and possibly get her number?

[prouster]

Great point? How much Twins’ Kool Aid have journalists/reporters drunk?

 

I would be happy to eat crow if the Twins sign a big name free agent but nothing in their track record indicates that fans should not be very skeptical.

 

What was the offer to Wheeler? I though I read it was reported to be 100M and he signed for 118M? Same type of situation with Darvish, right? I would guess the same would be true for Ohtani.

Ohtani signed a rookie contract. Any team would have paid him the exact same salary. He made his choice primarily on location. I think that’s a bigger deal for any player than most fans appreciate.