Front Page: Twins High Impact Pitching Options Dwindling as Wheeler and Hamels Reach Agreements

[Dman]

I think Odo misread the market as he could have gotten 20 Mil pr year for at least 3 years if not more in this market.  He must think he can command even more next year.  Glad the Twins have at least one pitcher.  Looks like all these guys will be over pays this year.  I hope we get one and it is the right one.

[beckmt]

What I am seeing on multiple websites is that Baumgartner may get more than Wheeler, just overpay Cole or Strasburg

[Wax off]

OP had $5M difference and I have 2.

The OP is known to hold a very low opinion of Strasburg. I wouldn't pay much heed.

You have to consider the entire makeup of the roster and contracts when thinking about it.

Think about the WS rotation. If Berrios is the #1, we should be looking for a new #1. Strasburg (2019 WSMVP) checks that, idk about Bumgarner (post dirt bike accident).

[Thrylos]

 

Again, maybe switch Rosario with Buxton and maybe the Mets will pick up the phone. Buxton and Balazovic and Trevor Larnach would be close. But that would hurt. 

 

Why would that hurt?   None of the three was a factor in the postseason when the Twins went belly up (again). Syndergaard would have helped them more than any of them did...

[sftwinsfan]

What drives me crazy about this front office is the apparent lack of urgency. They screwed up when they put themselves in a position going into the offseason with only 1 returning starting pitcher. Now they're sitting at 2 and seemingly letting the market play out. According to Darren Wolfson's twitter as of yesterday they hadn't even met with a free agent in person yet. While they had interest in Josh Donaldson they had not yet spoken directly to him. It kind of seems like the trade deadline all over again. They seem to sit back and wait for things to play out and get left in the dust. 

 

I'm kind of imagining an agent speaking to his client saying Chicago is at 4/$60M, Angels are at 4/$55M.  Player asks what about Minnesota, heard they were interested. Agent replies well, umm, Minnesota liked your Facebook page and they sent a text with a winking emoji earlier this morning, so yeah take that for what its worth.

[sweetmusicviola16]

Strasburg is going to get 6/180 from Nyy or the Nat's. I'd love him on our team, but we'd likely have to offer between 190-200 mil to get his attention. imo Jimmy won't sign off on it.

[Jham]

What drives me crazy about this front office is the apparent lack of urgency. They screwed up when they put themselves in a position going into the offseason with only 1 returning starting pitcher. Now they're sitting at 2 and seemingly letting the market play out. According to Darren Wolfson's twitter as of yesterday they hadn't even met with a free agent in person yet. While they had interest in Josh Donaldson they had not yet spoken directly to him. It kind of seems like the trade deadline all over again. They seem to sit back and wait for things to play out and get left in the dust. 

 

I'm kind of imagining an agent speaking to his client saying Chicago is at 4/$60M, Angels are at 4/$55M.  Player asks what about Minnesota, heard they were interested. Agent replies well, umm, Minnesota liked your Facebook page and they sent a text with a winking emoji earlier this morning, so yeah take that for what its worth.

Yeah wait til we panic pay Kuechel and trade for Boyd paying more for both when we could have gotten them last year when we needed them. Also, when did the FO learn of Pineda's positive test?

[D.C Twins]

"We are in on everyone! We just missed!"

 

Yaaaaawwwwwwwn.....(click)......I've seen this movie before too many times (it's too predictable and the payoff at the end isn't great)....I'm going to bed.

[D.C Twins]

......with visions of SP rotations packed with #3/4 starters, 90 win seasons, and 1st round playoff losses dancing through my head

[Twodogs]

Nobody seems to be talking about Strasburg. What would it take to get him? I'm good with 4/90 on Madbum but why not make a run at Strasburg at the same time and see who bites. Something like 130/5 on him?

How much did he turn down to stay in Washington?

[Seansy]

I would rather the Twins focus on Ryu and then Pineda. Not a fan of MadBum given his road numbers and his post injury numbers overall.

[Twodogs]

They need to sign an impact starter, the easiest thing to do is to just do it. Quit diddledadling around and just do it. Then bring back Pineda, and you got something for the stretch run. Use the mixture of arms to fill out the #5 guy, and Pineda's spot for his time off.

[FlauerPauer]

I wonder what it would take to get Jon Gray from the Rockies or Luis Castillo from the Reds or Robbie Ray from the D'Backs. I feel like a trade for a frontline starter is probably more in play than a signing. Try to go after the elite bullpeners out there and trade for two starters. Try to sign Pineda. You can even sign a trial and error guy like Alex Wood or Porcello for the 5th spot. Personally, I like Gray and Ray and signing 

 

MLB:

Gray (Blazovich/Rooker/Miranda/Jax)

Berrios (5.5 mil)
Odorizzi (18 mil)

Ray (Lanarch/Gordon/Alcala)

Pineda/Wood (10 mil)

 

AAA:

Graterol

Dobnak

Smeltzer

Poppen

Thorpe

 

Not terrible. Not terribly unrealistic either. What packages do you think would bring Ray and Gray to the Twin Cities?

[Richie the Rally Goat]

What I am seeing on multiple websites is that Baumgartner may get more than Wheeler, just overpay Cole or Strasburg

agreed, alotta miles on that shoulder. if Bumgarner is getting more than Wheeler, then you might as well go big. Your in the neighborhood already

[beckmt]

 

I wonder what it would take to get Jon Gray from the Rockies or Luis Castillo from the Reds or Robbie Ray from the D'Backs. I feel like a trade for a frontline starter is probably more in play than a signing. Try to go after the elite bullpeners out there and trade for two starters. Try to sign Pineda. You can even sign a trial and error guy like Alex Wood or Porcello for the 5th spot. Personally, I like Gray and Ray and signing 

 

MLB:

Gray (Blazovich/Rooker/Miranda/Jax)

Berrios (5.5 mil)
Odorizzi (18 mil)

Ray (Lanarch/Gordon/Alcala)

Pineda/Wood (10 mil)

 

AAA:

Graterol

Dobnak

Smeltzer

Poppen

Thorpe

 

Not terrible. Not terribly unrealistic either. What packages do you think would bring Ray and Gray to the Twin Cities?

Too much for either, and I bet both clubs would jump at those offers.

[AZTwin]

I wonder what it would take to get Jon Gray from the Rockies or Luis Castillo from the Reds or Robbie Ray from the D'Backs. I feel like a trade for a frontline starter is probably more in play than a signing. Try to go after the elite bullpeners out there and trade for two starters. Try to sign Pineda. You can even sign a trial and error guy like Alex Wood or Porcello for the 5th spot. Personally, I like Gray and Ray and signing

 

MLB:

Gray (Blazovich/Rooker/Miranda/Jax)

Berrios (5.5 mil)

Odorizzi (18 mil)

Ray (Lanarch/Gordon/Alcala)

Pineda/Wood (10 mil)

 

AAA:

Graterol

Dobnak

Smeltzer

Poppen

Thorpe

 

Not terrible. Not terribly unrealistic either. What packages do you think would bring Ray and Gray to the Twin Cities?

Here is how I would value these players and trades that I think would be mutually beneficial.

 

Gray - Celestino (or Baddoo), Rooker, Luis Rijo, and perhaps Javier

 

Ray - Nick Gordon, Ben Rortvedt, Lewis Thorpe

 

Castillo - Eddie Rosario, Alex Kirilloff, Nick Gordon, and Blayne Enlow. May even need to throw in another guy like Cole Sands

[tony&rodney]

The Twins still have options if they are committed to adding free agents to their core. Both Ryu and Bumgarner are available and the money is too. For that matter, so too is Cole - he is available. 

Re: trades - Wow, does anyone really think the Reds would trade Castillo? I love watching Rosario and am hoping Kirilloff is a masher, but I do the trade noted above (with Sands) if I am the Twins.

[Dantes929]

 

But this is what they do to us every off season it seems. Have us be happy to not have improvements. Without Cole or Wheeler, etc this is not a better rotation. Berrios, Odo, Pineda is not a WS rotation.

I don't feel like they do anything to us every off season.   Morris, Tapani and Erickson were not a WS rotation, until they were.    Wheeler had a 3.96 National League ERA.   What makes you think he is better than any of our three you have named?  His WHIP isn't better.  His SO/9 isn't better.    You don't get better just by getting different guys.  You can also get better by having guys play better.    There is some upside to Graterol, Dobnak, etc.    I'm not saying I wouldn't like Wheeler but Koufax he ain't.

 

[terrydactyls]

I'd take that with a big grain of salt. "Higher offer" could mean 6/120, or 4/100 (higher AAV), or even 5/125 but with a bunch of deferred money. Or of course it could also just be incorrect or a PR exaggeration -- makes the White Sox look better, makes Wheeler look better, it's a win-win all around, so no one would bother setting the record straight if it was incorrect or misleading.

Or it could be a true statement.

[ScooterDance]

......with visions of SP rotations packed with #3/4 starters, 90 win seasons, and 1st round playoff losses dancing through my head

 

I needed a good chuckle, thanks.

 

Where in DC you at? Just moved to Calvert County MD from Clay County MN. Work downtown near the farragut station.

[3balls2strikes]

 

What drives me crazy about this front office is the apparent lack of urgency. They screwed up when they put themselves in a position going into the offseason with only 1 returning starting pitcher. Now they're sitting at 2 and seemingly letting the market play out. According to Darren Wolfson's twitter as of yesterday they hadn't even met with a free agent in person yet. While they had interest in Josh Donaldson they had not yet spoken directly to him. It kind of seems like the trade deadline all over again. They seem to sit back and wait for things to play out and get left in the dust. 

 

I'm kind of imagining an agent speaking to his client saying Chicago is at 4/$60M, Angels are at 4/$55M.  Player asks what about Minnesota, heard they were interested. Agent replies well, umm, Minnesota liked your Facebook page and they sent a text with a winking emoji earlier this morning, so yeah take that for what its worth.

^^^^^THIS!^^^^^

[Badsmerf]

Unfortunately Bumgarner hits right handed.

The Twins don't know that! Shhhhhh.

[akmanak]

The reason they are dwindling is because the Twins have no plans on signing anyone noteworthy. I anticipate another weak winter meeting and assume they will attempt to pick up pitchers who are on the downward trend like they normally do.

[bighat]

 

Tough blow, but we all have to remember one thing; sometimes there are factors other than money that come into play and don't help the Twins. Wheeler's wife being from the Philadelphia area is one. Gerritt Cole being from SoCal is another. If the money is even reasonably close to the same or similar, these guys may prioritize being near family, pitching in a familiar division where they're comfortable, weather, all kinds of things.  

This type of thing about "regional ties" always bothers me. First of all, it's always going to work against the Twins because so few MLB players are actually from Minnesota. Everyone's from Latin America, California, Texas and Florida.

 

But frankly it's a poor excuse!  How many players want to play in Miami or Tampa because of "regional ties"?  Answer: zero. Tampa has a stadium problem and they're considered cheap, and Miami has a baseball culture problem.  It's never really about "regional ties", it's always about money and winning. It's a nice way of saying "it's not you, it's me". But as George Costanza knows, deep down it's ALWAYS about you.

 

Houston went from being one of those also-ran type teams into a team that has a reputation as big spenders and major competitors. The Twins haven't made that leap. Like it or not, agents and players see Minnesota as an MLB backwater whose only major contract went out to a hometown boy 12 years ago. The Twins are going to be swimming upstream with all of these free agents until they can somehow change their reputation. The series against the Yankees was another national embarrassment and nobody wants to come here to be a part of that show.

 

I think the Twins are a more attractive landing spot than they were 10 years ago. But we have a long way to go before this team even gets having the reputation of teams like Cleveland, Atlanta, and Philly in the eyes of free agents.

[Blackjack]

I wonder how the info 'leaks' out on the amount that that the Twins offered Wheeler?? Or how accurate the info really is??!

[beckmt]

 

I wonder how the info 'leaks' out on the amount that that the Twins offered Wheeler?? Or how accurate the info really is??!

That is the question as I saw on one website the Twins were the team that offered $100 million.  Geography and where the team is does play a factor, I also saw the White Sox offered $125 million, do not know if this was fact, but there were other factors in play here.

[beckmt]

Still feel the Twins should go big.  Price on all these impact starters is going up fast. So if Cole needs 7/260 just pay the money, it will go a long way to making the Twins a desired destination. 

[beckmt]

Just have a feeling that neither Bumgardner or Ryu will want to come here, that is one reason I want the Twins to go big.  Would rather overpay for the top of the heap, than Bumgardner or Ryu and I feel it will take a significant overpay to get either of these two here.

Twins please don't wait and be left without a chair.

Also feel if the Twins strike out in the signings, teams will significantly raise the price for their better starters knowing the Twins are in a corner.

[Doctor Wu]

 

I wonder what it would take to get Jon Gray from the Rockies or Luis Castillo from the Reds or Robbie Ray from the D'Backs. I feel like a trade for a frontline starter is probably more in play than a signing. Try to go after the elite bullpeners out there and trade for two starters. Try to sign Pineda. You can even sign a trial and error guy like Alex Wood or Porcello for the 5th spot. Personally, I like Gray and Ray and signing 

 

MLB:

Gray (Blazovich/Rooker/Miranda/Jax)

Berrios (5.5 mil)
Odorizzi (18 mil)

Ray (Lanarch/Gordon/Alcala)

Pineda/Wood (10 mil)

 

AAA:

Graterol

Dobnak

Smeltzer

Poppen

Thorpe

 

Not terrible. Not terribly unrealistic either. What packages do you think would bring Ray and Gray to the Twin Cities?

Gray would be a great pickup if we could do it. I don't know enough about the value of various prospects and how many it would take to interest the Rockies, but I think trading for Gray is actually a realistic idea.

[USAFChief]

By the front office's own declaration, the Twins will target "impact pitching" this winter.

 

There were 2 pretty sure thing "impact pitchers" on the free agent market to start the winter, Cole and Strassburg. Both are still there, but I'm pretty doubtful either end up in Minnesota.

 

There was one guy who has one season of what's probably "impact pitching" (2018), and the stuff to think he has a good chance of becoming consistently well above average. That's Wheeler, who's gone.

 

And there was one guy who certainly was an impact pitcher, but hasn't been recently. He possibly will be again...2019 was encouraging, from a peripheral standpoint, but there's a lot of miles on that arm, and he's no sure thing. That's Bumgarner. 

 

I don't consider Keuchel an impact pitcher. At all. And i don't think there's much reason to believe he'll become one in the coming years. He'd be no better than third on the current Twins staff, and the current Twins staff is two deep.

 

So Falvine are down to one candidate. One. By their own standards for offseason needs. 

 

There is a possibility a trade could occur, but I can't even think of any "impact pitching" that might be for sale. And if it is, there'll be a line of teams bidding for it, just like the free agents. Plan on spending 2 of the Twins top 4 prospects, minimum, including one of Graterol or Balazovic.

 

So the only realistic chance, at this point, is signing Bumgarner, and hoping he performs like he's 5 years younger.

 

I'm not optimistic.