Front Page: Every Team Wants Zack Wheeler

[LewFordLives]

I would do 6/200 for Cole in a heartbeat, but there's no way that gets it done.

[cmoss84]

 

I would do 6/200 for Cole in a heartbeat, but there's no way that gets it done.

https://www.mlb.com/news/largest-contracts-in-mlb-history-c300060780

 

 

I think you are right in that it will be a bit higher...but it is in the same ballpark as the highest paid pitchers of all time. 

[cmoss84]

 

For those questioning Wheeler's worth, it appears that you are in the minority.

 

From an ESPN article polling 15 team execs/insiders:

 

"6. Of the second-tier guys, which of these free-agent starting pitchers would you most want your team to sign this winter: Madison Bumgarner, Zack Wheeler or Dallas Keuchel?

 

Survey says: Wheeler 8; Bumgarner 4; Keuchel 2; Three-way tie 1"

 

Here's a link to the entire story:

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28160749/hot-stove-survey-mookie-betts-block-gerrit-cole-crack-300m-mlb-gms-insiders-weigh-in

 

Edit:

Okay, so in reading the entire article, there are some detractors.

 

"8. Who is the one player most likely to be overpaid on a big contract this winter?

 

Survey says: Wheeler 4; Grandal 2 (Grandal signed with the White Sox after our survey was complete); Nicholas Castellanos 1; Daniel Hudson 1; 7 respondents declined to answer."

Sorry to get a bit off topic. Castellanos is one of the best hitters in the game and is still 27. He's going to get overpaid? 

[LewFordLives]

I wonder if all these rumors about the White Sox interest in Wheeler is part of an effort to extract more money from the Twins.

[Vanimal46]

 

No Twins on the list

[Diesel]

 

No Twins on the list

If the twins can get Bumgarner or Ryu, I think we will all be content. I don’t think Wheeler is worth 110 million. I think he’s slightly better than odorizzi. Can easily find a trade too with all of the prospects in the system.

[HawksNest]

Both Olney and Rosenthal do NOT have Twins listed among finalists for Wheeler in tweets/stories from this morning.

 

I'm becoming more and more convinced that "impact" pitching will have to come via trade. Just really don't see this team changing 60+ years of doing things one way to just completely transform into an organization that drops $100+ million on free agents.

 

Hope I'm wrong, but how could you possibly think any other way? Until proven otherwise, this seems to be the default position for 99.9% of fans.

 

 

[sweetmusicviola16]

 

Both Olney and Rosenthal do NOT have Twins listed among finalists for Wheeler in tweets/stories from this morning.

 

I'm becoming more and more convinced that "impact" pitching will have to come via trade. Just really don't see this team changing 60+ years of doing things one way to just completely transform into an organization that drops $100+ million on free agents.

 

Hope I'm wrong, but how could you possibly think any other way? Until proven otherwise, this seems to be the default position for 99.9% of fans.

The problem with this strategy is that every team that has good pitching is looking for more and not looking to trade what they have. The teams that might be looking to trade away pitching don't have much to trade away, certainly not much in the way of impact players. Very likely the only way to get better in this market is to shell out the money.Wheeler is the 3rd best SP available this season and we only have 2 SP on board. If we won't shell out with the team we have and the needs we have then we never will.

[akmanak]

Lol, The Twins will never sign Wheeler or any pitcher close to Wheeler unless they only request 6 million a year or less.

 

Time and time again we hear the same song and dance regarding this organization being so close to signing a big name player only to fall short .

 

Until they are sold they will continue to seek pitchers through their farm system and hope for the best.

[nicksaviking]

 

https://www.mlb.com/news/largest-contracts-in-mlb-history-c300060780

 

 

I think you are right in that it will be a bit higher...but it is in the same ballpark as the highest paid pitchers of all time. 

 

The problem is, if you pass on all the other pitchers waiting around for Cole and A ) his offer ends up being something crazy like 275M or B ) he doesn't have interest in coming here, the team is screwed.

 

As much as I want Cole, the Twins have to make sure they secure pitching help, and gambling that they can get the best pitcher in the game when he's ready to negotiate in February risks securing nothing.

[nicksaviking]

 

Lol, The Twins will never sign Wheeler or any pitcher close to Wheeler unless they only request 6 million a year or less.
 

 

Ervin Santana, Phil Hughes, Ricky Nolasco and Lance Lynn might disagree.

[nicksaviking]

Wheeler has reportedly told the Rangers they are out of the running:

 

https://www.dallasnews.com/sports/rangers/2019/12/04/source-free-agent-zack-wheeler-has-eliminated-the-rangers-from-consideration/

 

I'm only interested in this because it sounds like Wheeler told them they are out, not the other way around. I'd really like to hear what the impetus for Wheeler's rejection is. Though getting that info is probably a pipe dream.

 

Also, I'm really surprised none of the Yankees, Astros, Angels or Dodgers are in on this. Less so with the Dodgers I guess as they've made it clear the past several years that they don't want to do long term deals. They aren't all going to get Cole and Strasburg.

[purplesoldier4u]

I think teams are driving up the price. 5/120 would be paying way too much, but it seems as though a number of team are past the 5/100 mark.

[Battle ur tail off]

 

A cursory look back at the Twins offer was that it was for around $100M, but only five years.  The AAV was pretty similar and in the same ballpark as others.  It appears the Cubs won out because they gave him 6 years.  I would hardly call it a token offer unless you know that they offered it after the Cubs offered 6 years. 

 

Didn't get it done as per usual with Twins in FA negotiations for players in the top 1/3 or so of the list. Token. 

[Battle ur tail off]

 

Ervin Santana, Phil Hughes, Ricky Nolasco and Lance Lynn might disagree.

 

Boy, what a lineup of studs there. A gaggle of #4 starters in the third tier of free agents. 

 

Bargain shopping. Yes, they overpaid for Nolasco, but at best he was a #3 starter. This doesn't do anything to make me confident they will go after someone real. 

[bird]

 

Didn't get it done as per usual with Twins in FA negotiations for players in the top 1/3 or so of the list. Token. 

 

 

If you hop on out to any one of a half dozen fan sites for other teams who are or have been in contention for Wheeler, you can practically find your sentences uttered verbatim by fans from those cities.

 

I saw a poster deride the Wilpons for being cheap. I see some CWS fans despairing at not being mentioned exclusively as the top bidder. After all, a couple of the CWS beat writers have been very adamant that Wheeler, specifically, is THE priority for their team. I've seen various tweets listing I believe 7 clubs as being "engaged": NYM, NYY, MIN, CIN, CWS, PHI, TEX.

 

Six of these clubs will "lose out" in the bidding. I'm willing to bet my entire net worth that, at the end of the ordeal, I can find a fan comment from each and every one of the "losers" that calls out the ownership for being cheap, and calls out the FO for putting in an insincere "token" bid. In fact, I've already got three checked off, and the guy hasn't signed a contract. Amusing stuff.

[Danchat]

I read Darren Woodson was reporting that the Twins offered Wheeler a 5 year deal, but according to Ken Rosenthal, doesn’t sound like the Twins are a finalist.

 

I would up my offer to Bumgarner at this point. Sounds like Wheeler is going to get more than expected.

[nicksaviking]

Boy, what a lineup of studs there. A gaggle of #4 starters in the third tier of free agents.

 

Bargain shopping. Yes, they overpaid for Nolasco, but at best he was a #3 starter. This doesn't do anything to make me confident they will go after someone real.

 

They weren’t at the time though. Those guys were all considered 2nd tier starters in their free agent class and now look terrible in hindsight.

 

I want free agent pitchers, but there’s certainly some cautionary tails right in our own backyard.

 

But pretending the Twins haven’t used the free agent market to acquire free agent pitchers that were top 10-20ish overall free agents is quite inaccurate.

[jud6312]

I'm starting to get the feeling that any "meaningful" rotation upgrades are going to come through trade(s). Or, more likely, not at all.

 

At this point it wouldn't surprise me one bit if they didn't land any of the top 5, of which I'd have only been interested in 4 anyway.

[Battle ur tail off]

 

If you hop on out to any one of a half dozen fan sites for other teams who are or have been in contention for Wheeler, you can practically find your sentences uttered verbatim by fans from those cities.

 

I saw a poster deride the Wilpons for being cheap. I see some CWS fans despairing at not being mentioned exclusively as the top bidder. After all, a couple of the CWS beat writers have been very adamant that Wheeler, specifically, is THE priority for their team. I've seen various tweets listing I believe 7 clubs as being "engaged": NYM, NYY, MIN, CIN, CWS, PHI, TEX.

 

Six of these clubs will "lose out" in the bidding. I'm willing to bet my entire net worth that, at the end of the ordeal, I can find a fan comment from each and every one of the "losers" that calls out the ownership for being cheap, and calls out the FO for putting in an insincere "token" bid. In fact, I've already got three checked off, and the guy hasn't signed a contract. Amusing stuff.

 

I get where you are coming from, but don't the Twins, with the roster they have, owe it to their team and fans to get some high end pitching in here? We know it's going to be an overpay. But they have the money or prospects if needed. OVERPAY if you have to. 

Every ones of those teams you mention has, in their history went out and bought a stud. All of them. I'm not asking for the moon every season, but the position the Twins are in right now 100% warrants them spending big, or trading big to get over the hump. If not now, it will never happen. 

[jud6312]

I'm already planning on Berrios, Odo, and some combo of trash heap and rookies for the other 3 spots.

 

Coincidentally, I'm also planning to bet the under on whatever number Vegas gives them in March.

[sweetmusicviola16]

 

I read Darren Woodson was reporting that the Twins offered Wheeler a 5 year deal, but according to Ken Rosenthal, doesn’t sound like the Twins are a finalist.

I would up my offer to Bumgarner at this point. Sounds like Wheeler is going to get more than expected.

Problem is you will have the same teams that are in on Wheeler doing the same thing and maybe the Wheeler winner too. The Twins are not in a good position with having 3 open spots at once. My hunch has been all along that Odorizzi will be our biggest signing. I've been hoping to be wrong but I doubt it if we lose on Wheeler which sounds likely right now.

[Vanimal46]

 

I read Darren Woodson was reporting that the Twins offered Wheeler a 5 year deal, but according to Ken Rosenthal, doesn’t sound like the Twins are a finalist.

I would up my offer to Bumgarner at this point. Sounds like Wheeler is going to get more than expected.

 

Once again, the Twins are the low bid. Oh boy! 

[nicksaviking]

I'm starting to get the feeling that any "meaningful" rotation upgrades are going to come through trade(s). Or, more likely, not at all.

 

At this point it wouldn't surprise me one bit if they didn't land any of the top 5, of which I'd have only been interested in 4 anyway.

If it’s not Cole, Strasburg or Wheeler I’d probably prefer a trade. There are other free agent pitchers I’d take, but none I’d want to run out Gsme 1 vs the Yankees.

[nicksaviking]

Once again, the Twins are the low bid. Oh boy!

 

Where’d you see that?

[MMMordabito]

 

I get where you are coming from, but don't the Twins, with the roster they have, owe it to their team and fans to get some high end pitching in here? We know it's going to be an overpay. But they have the money or prospects if needed. OVERPAY if you have to. 

Every ones of those teams you mention has, in their history went out and bought a stud. All of them. I'm not asking for the moon every season, but the position the Twins are in right now 100% warrants them spending big, or trading big to get over the hump. If not now, it will never happen. 

 

They can't pigeon hole themselves into a {insert pitcher name (currently Wheeler)} or bust MO.  I don't think that's the smart way in the Twins market.  I can listen to the frustrations of cheapness around Cole or Strasburg.  They are definitely the high end pitching studs to be bought.  Buying an inflated Wheeler as his price starts to approach those two wouldn't be good business, IMO.

 

I'd rather get Hamels, Gausman and Bundy (I think they can produce at least what Gibson, Perez and Pineda produced).  Then I'd give a two year, get healthy deal to Sanchez.  If the Twins are where we hope they'll be  in July, then make a blockbuster deal for a stud on a team that had a year that didn't go quite right.  There will be less players to contend with and the the Twins should have the prospect depth to compete with those that do contend.

[Vanimal46]

 

Where’d you see that?

 

Putting pieces of the puzzle together. Doogie tweeted the Twins have offered Wheeler a contract, willing to go 5 years. Rosenthal and Ulney didn't have the Twins listed as a team in contention for Wheeler. Other Twins reporters on Twitter are saying the Twins are basically out of the running. 

 

What does that mean to you? 

[Battle ur tail off]

 

They can't pigeon hole themselves into a {insert pitcher name (currently Wheeler)} or bust MO.  I don't think that's the smart way in the Twins market.  I can listen to the frustrations of cheapness around Cole or Strasburg.  They are definitely the high end pitching studs to be bought.  Buying an inflated Wheeler as his price starts to approach those two wouldn't be good business, IMO.

 

I'd rather get Hamels, Gausman and Bundy (I think they can produce at least what Gibson, Perez and Pineda produced).  Then I'd give a two year, get healthy deal to Sanchez.  If the Twins are where we hope they'll be  in July, then make a blockbuster deal for a stud on a team that had a year that didn't go quite right.  There will be less players to contend with and the the Twins should have the prospect depth to compete with those that do contend.

 

Yep, just like last season. When asked for prospects for high end pitching, Twins turn tail and run. They are just as stingy with those guys as they are with their money. Don't count on a blockbuster. 

 

 

[SpicyGarvSauce]

Face the reality people - the Twins will never, EVER give a pitcher the type of contract that it takes to land a front end of the rotation starter. Nev-er.

[bird]

 

I get where you are coming from, but don't the Twins, with the roster they have, owe it to their team and fans to get some high end pitching in here? We know it's going to be an overpay. But they have the money or prospects if needed. OVERPAY if you have to. 

Every ones of those teams you mention has, in their history went out and bought a stud. All of them. I'm not asking for the moon every season, but the position the Twins are in right now 100% warrants them spending big, or trading big to get over the hump. If not now, it will never happen. 

 

This is the first off-season, under Falvey, in which the team has publicly declared that it intends to pursue "impact pitching". This, despite the fact that they had been finalists for Darvish (some want to think differently about this, I know). I fully expect, that if they lose out on this one guy, we'll have a Darvish deja vu, lots of lamenting, before the fact, that the cheap Twins, who don't care about winning, only about money, yada yada yada. It's likely that a few of the same folks who held the view that they didn't spend big enough last winter will hold the same view now.  Ignoring the fact that the team went from 78 to 101 wins without Darvish. Ignoring the fact that they explained the different in their own perception between prying the window open in 2019 and feeling a breeze here in 2020. 

 

They stand a good chance of being outbid for Wheeler. Some team is likely to give the guy stupid money. I get it that some people want Falvey to be the stupid one. 

 

Interestingly, every one of the teams mentioned has had a WS drought of at least a decade, the exceptions being NYM (2015) and TEX (2011). So, if what you're saying is true, and that all those teams have blown up their budget on stud free agents except the Twins, then why aren't those teams all sporting a 101 win record in 2019 or better? 

 

I'm gonna give Falvey the benefit of the doubt. He's as entitled to that as we are to a winning bid for Wheeler. He said they'd pursue impact pitching and he's true to that promise just by virtue of the fact that the Twins are clearly in the conversation here. Let's let it all play out.