Astros Being Investigated for Using Tech to Steal Pitching Signs

[Vanimal46]

  On 1/29/2020 at 10:31 PM, nicksaviking said:

Ha, will Fangraphs adopt these stats? How was all of this data accumulated? Did someone go back through the audio of each game?

Whoever put in the effort has way too much time on their hands! Or they’re a Dodgers fan...

[Mike Sixel]

It appears the commissioner covered up the front office's involvement in teh Astro's cheating. I'm not sure he's going to get away with this like maybe someone else does.....

 

The integrity of the games kind of matters.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Per same report, the Astros used the sign stealing scheme in both home and road games.

[Vanimal46]

 

This is stunning. Wow.

 

“Just alternate your signs!” Teams changed them a dozen times a game. Except the struggling teams like Oakland and Toronto who didn’t seem to care.

 

Manfred has no cojones. Luhnow and his colleagues should have been banned for life.

[Vanimal46]

  On 2/8/2020 at 2:32 AM, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

Per same report, the Astros used the sign stealing scheme in both home and road games.

So much for closing this case. As more reports come out I have more questions than before. No one from baseball has taken accountability for this scandal. And fans deserve some answers if the game they’re watching is rigged.

[cmoss84]

%&$#.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Wait..

 

I was under the impression that players could not be punished for this.

 

But the comments below seem to be more ambiguous?

 

“I’m hopeful that I can get Boston done before the camps open,” Manfred told reporters after an owners’ meeting Thursday in Orlando, Fla., adding that no Red Sox players will be sanctioned.

 

Astros players had been granted immunity in exchange for truthful testimonies.

 

“We have the right to discipline players right now. I’m absolutely convinced of that fact,” Manfred said. “We made a decision in the Houston investigation that in order for us to get the facts that we needed, somebody had to get immunity.”

 

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/redsox/2020/02/06/rob-manfred-red-sox-players-will-punished/7jGTeeS661tAL7lFHOgeJL/story.html?outputType=amp&__twitter_impression=true

[Mr. Brooks]

  On 2/9/2020 at 4:35 AM, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

Wait..

 

I was under the impression that players could not be punished for this.

 

But the comments below seem to be more ambiguous?

 

“I’m hopeful that I can get Boston done before the camps open,” Manfred told reporters after an owners’ meeting Thursday in Orlando, Fla., adding that no Red Sox players will be sanctioned.

 

Astros players had been granted immunity in exchange for truthful testimonies.

 

“We have the right to discipline players right now. I’m absolutely convinced of that fact,” Manfred said. “We made a decision in the Houston investigation that in order for us to get the facts that we needed, somebody had to get immunity.”

 

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/redsox/2020/02/06/rob-manfred-red-sox-players-will-punished/7jGTeeS661tAL7lFHOgeJL/story.html?outputType=amp&__twitter_impression=true

Reading between the lines, if Manfred believes he can punish the Houston players, then I'd guess he has reason to believe they weren't entirely truthful in their testimony, which is always a caveat of immunity.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

  On 2/9/2020 at 6:50 AM, Mr. Brooks said:

Reading between the lines, if Manfred believes he can punish the Houston players, then I'd guess he has reason to believe they weren't entirely truthful in their testimony, which is always a caveat of immunity.

Ah, right.

[jkcarew]

 

  On 2/8/2020 at 2:32 AM, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

Per same report, the Astros used the sign stealing scheme in both home and road games.

What report? Does it say how? Where did they put the cameras in opposing stadiums? How did they get access? (I could see the visiting bullpen working in a minority of stadiums.)

[Zachary]

Was having some fun looking at some offensive statistics from various Astros hitters from 2013 to 2019. Found some interesting things that I thought I'd share...I apologize in advance for how strenuous it might be to look at these thin convoluted lines... I'd recommend looking at one at a time

 

 

OPS

• 7/10 hitters saw their OPS spike up and then fall back down in 2018 (Josh Reddick joined Houston in the 2017 season. In 2016-2017-2018 with LAD-HOU-HOU his OPS went .643 - .847 - .718 and has a career .753 OPS)
• Bregman's OPS and White's OPS shot up in 2017 and then continued to rise in 2018
• Evan Gattis' OPS dropped in 2017 and 2018

 

Swinging %

• 8/10 hitters saw their Swinging % drop in 2017 (Josh Reddick, without a huge change, went from 44.2% in 2016 to 43.7% in 2017 then back up to 44.4% in 2018)
• Evan Gattis and Tyler White's Swinging % both shot up in 2017

 

Hard Hit %

• 8/10 hitters increased their Hard Hit % in 2017 (95 mph+ exit velocity)
• Take a look at 2018 --> 2019...

 

Batting Average

• Everybody increased their Average in 2017...

Thanks for reading.

[Vanimal46]

 

Finally a player speaks out about this. Glad Marwin is taking the heat now. Better than pretending like it never happened *cough* Bergman and Altuve *cough*

[USAFChief]

 

  On 2/11/2020 at 4:02 AM, Zachary said:

Was having some fun looking at some offensive statistics from various Astros hitters from 2013 to 2019. Found some interesting things that I thought I'd share...I apologize in advance for how strenuous it might be to look at these thin convoluted lines... I'd recommend looking at one at a time

 

 

 

OPS

• 7/10 hitters saw their OPS spike up and then fall back down in 2018 (Josh Reddick joined Houston in the 2017 season. In 2016-2017-2018 with LAD-HOU-HOU his OPS went .643 - .847 - .718 and has a career .753 OPS)
• Bregman's OPS and White's OPS shot up in 2017 and then continued to rise in 2018
• Evan Gattis' OPS dropped in 2017 and 2018

 

 

Swinging %

• 8/10 hitters saw their Swinging % drop in 2017 (Josh Reddick, without a huge change, went from 44.2% in 2016 to 43.7% in 2017 then back up to 44.4% in 2018)
• Evan Gattis and Tyler White's Swinging % both shot up in 2017

 

 

Hard Hit %

• 8/10 hitters increased their Hard Hit % in 2017 (95 mph+ exit velocity)
• Take a look at 2018 --> 2019...

 

 

Batting Average

• Everybody increased their Average in 2017...

Thanks for reading.

 

[bird]

 

  On 2/11/2020 at 4:02 AM, Zachary said:

Was having some fun looking at some offensive statistics from various Astros hitters from 2013 to 2019. Found some interesting things that I thought I'd share...I apologize in advance for how strenuous it might be to look at these thin convoluted lines... I'd recommend looking at one at a time

 

 

 

OPS

• 7/10 hitters saw their OPS spike up and then fall back down in 2018 (Josh Reddick joined Houston in the 2017 season. In 2016-2017-2018 with LAD-HOU-HOU his OPS went .643 - .847 - .718 and has a career .753 OPS)
• Bregman's OPS and White's OPS shot up in 2017 and then continued to rise in 2018
• Evan Gattis' OPS dropped in 2017 and 2018

 

 

Swinging %

• 8/10 hitters saw their Swinging % drop in 2017 (Josh Reddick, without a huge change, went from 44.2% in 2016 to 43.7% in 2017 then back up to 44.4% in 2018)
• Evan Gattis and Tyler White's Swinging % both shot up in 2017

 

 

Hard Hit %

• 8/10 hitters increased their Hard Hit % in 2017 (95 mph+ exit velocity)
• Take a look at 2018 --> 2019...

 

 

Batting Average

• Everybody increased their Average in 2017...

Thanks for reading.

 

This is SO impressive. Thank you Zachary.

 

Could anyone argue that this is not extremely conclusive evidence of the overall positive impact the Asterisk players enjoyed? Quantifying it just makes the enormity of this scam leap out at you.

 

It would be even MORE damning to attempt a rough quantification of the damage it caused to individual opponents, specifically pitchers.

 

 

[jimbo92107]

The reason Berrios should remain upset with Gonzo is that Berrios depends on his sweeping curve to get a lot of outs. That pitch starts off right down the middle, then bends far out of the zone. That magical illusion is part of what makes Berrios a great pitcher. Take that away with cheating, you're cheating Berrios out of all the time and effort it took him to learn and perfect that amazing pitch. Gonzo literally helped take millions of dollars away from Jose Berrios. That is money he uses to buy his family a nice house, send to his parents, etc. 

 

So, is Gonzo just gonna say, "Sorry about that?"

[Squirrel]

  On 2/11/2020 at 8:26 PM, USAFChief said:

Lol ... I was going to say that, too ... at least it wasn’t linear algebra!

[Richie the Rally Goat]

  On 2/11/2020 at 4:02 AM, Zachary said:

Was having some fun looking at some offensive statistics from various Astros hitters from 2013 to 2019. Found some interesting things that I thought I'd share...I apologize in advance for how strenuous it might be to look at these thin convoluted lines... I'd recommend looking at one at a time

 

 

 

OPS

• 7/10 hitters saw their OPS spike up and then fall back down in 2018 (Josh Reddick joined Houston in the 2017 season. In 2016-2017-2018 with LAD-HOU-HOU his OPS went .643 - .847 - .718 and has a career .753 OPS)
• Bregman's OPS and White's OPS shot up in 2017 and then continued to rise in 2018
• Evan Gattis' OPS dropped in 2017 and 2018

 

Swinging %

• 8/10 hitters saw their Swinging % drop in 2017 (Josh Reddick, without a huge change, went from 44.2% in 2016 to 43.7% in 2017 then back up to 44.4% in 2018)
• Evan Gattis and Tyler White's Swinging % both shot up in 2017

 

Hard Hit %

• 8/10 hitters increased their Hard Hit % in 2017 (95 mph+ exit velocity)
• Take a look at 2018 --> 2019...

 

Batting Average

• Everybody increased their Average in 2017...

Thanks for reading.

Great visualizations! Very nice post!

[Monkeypaws]

How hard is it to void a WS championship?

 

From what I understand the players are immune, either through the union or some Manfred deal. 

 

But the organization? 

 

 

[Vanimal46]

 

  On 2/12/2020 at 5:03 AM, Monkeypaws said:

How hard is it to void a WS championship?

 

From what I understand the players are immune, either through the union or some Manfred deal. 

 

But the organization? 

 

 

All Manfred has to do is call up the NCAA... They vacate wins and championships all the time! 

[Zachary]

 

  On 2/11/2020 at 8:28 PM, birdwatcher said:

 

It would be even MORE damning to attempt a rough quantification of the damage it caused to individual opponents, specifically pitchers.

 

This would be really interesting to look at. We can start with Mike Bolsinger...

[cardsfan]

I'm wondering what their many fired scouts have to say. Also, would their 2018 hitting coach who was in the minors in 2017 not know about the electronic sign stealing?

[Vanimal46]

 

There’s 2 apologies so far. Is Altuve next?

[cmoss84]

 

  On 2/11/2020 at 8:41 PM, jimbo92107 said:

The reason Berrios should remain upset with Gonzo is that Berrios depends on his sweeping curve to get a lot of outs. That pitch starts off right down the middle, then bends far out of the zone. That magical illusion is part of what makes Berrios a great pitcher. Take that away with cheating, you're cheating Berrios out of all the time and effort it took him to learn and perfect that amazing pitch. Gonzo literally helped take millions of dollars away from Jose Berrios. That is money he uses to buy his family a nice house, send to his parents, etc. 

 

So, is Gonzo just gonna say, "Sorry about that?"

 

MAN I would be pissed if I was a pitcher who went against these guys.

 

And then hearing their BS apologies? 

 

I ruined your career? I am your teammate now and I messed you up good in the past? You missed out on some bonuses because of me? You would have had career numbers if it wasn't for our team? Oh...my bad. Sorry!

Bregman and Altuve. LOL. What a freakin mess. The bad blood between Marwin and Jose might merit a dropping of Marwin alone. Why mess with a good clubhouse environment? 

 

Please. Drop. Him. 

[nicksaviking]

I was in the minority in that I never believed Jim Crane actually knew anything about this. I've always been of the mind that good owners are hands off and don't really know squat about the onfield product. I don't think Jim Pohlad knows what FIP is let alone the intricacies of sign stealing.

 

But I just read MLBTR's run down of the Houston interview. Wow, is Crane tone deaf. Making Dusty Baker be a spokes person for this? Continue to point fingers at the manager and GM only? I mean I get it, if Crane had nothing to do with this, and I really don't see why he would, I can see why he's mad that the people below him put a big stain on the team he owns, but he's crazy if he doesn't understand that everyone else wants to see HIM get down on his knees. No one cares if he didn't know, they don't feel bad for him and they don't feel like he got cheated like every other baseball fan did.

[laloesch]

 

  On 11/13/2019 at 3:24 PM, Mike Sixel said:

I hate sign stealing. It's not part of the play, but outside it. But there is virtually no way to eliminate it, alas.

i was about to say it sucks but really it is part of the game.  Player and organizations have been stealing signs forever.  Heck we used to steal signs in highschool games.

[Zachary]

https://twitter.com/MidwestDodger_/status/1227973833493221376?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

[Squirrel]

  On 2/13/2020 at 5:12 PM, cmoss84 said:

MAN I would be pissed if I was a pitcher who went against these guys.

 

And then hearing their BS apologies?

 

I ruined your career? I am your teammate now and I messed you up good in the past? You missed out on some bonuses because of me? You would have had career numbers if it wasn't for our team? Oh...my bad. Sorry!

Bregman and Altuve. LOL. What a freakin mess. The bad blood between Marwin and Jose might merit a dropping of Marwin alone. Why mess with a good clubhouse environment?

 

Please. Drop. Him.

 

Did I miss something reported? Is there an actual ‘bad blood’ situation between those two, or is it your supposition that there must be because of how you feel about it? I haven’t seen any reports of anything of the sort, at lest not yet. And I would understand if there were some hard feelings, but for the sake of the team moving forward, they will need to find a way to deal with it and move on if it becomes an obstacle. The team is not going to just drop Gonzalez, nor do I think they should, but then there are a few threads in the Twins Talk forum already discussing this.

[ashbury]

  On 2/13/2020 at 3:11 AM, Zachary said:

This would be really interesting to look at. We can start with Mike Bolsinger...

The guy who had one decent season at age 27, statistically aided by Dodger Stadium judging by his splits, then stunk the next year with an ERA of 6.84 in 6 starts at the major league level, then went on to Toronto and had an ERA of 5.61 in 5 starts, got sent down, came back up later that season and pitched 15.1 innings of 5.28 ERA baseball in relief, and then in one additional game got hammered by an Astros team who knew what was coming?

 

The guy who then actually landed on his feet and eked out a couple of seasons (and counting) playing in Japan instead of toiling in the minors for someone.

 

That guy?

 

People make it sound like he got his one cup of coffee and was cheated out of a chance when it came.

 

I'd love to sit in and listen to the case his lawyers make, were this ever to come to trial.

 

I have nothing against the guy but there are tons of other guys just like him, for the taking. He's the definition of replacement player. And he got replaced. One bad game didn't determine his future.

[cmoss84]

 

  On 2/13/2020 at 6:01 PM, SQUIRREL said:

Did I miss something reported? Is there an actual ‘bad blood’ situation between those two, or is it your supposition that there must be because of how you feel about it? I haven’t seen any reports of anything of the sort, at lest not yet. And I would understand if there were some hard feelings, but for the sake of the team moving forward, they will need to find a way to deal with it and move on if it becomes an obstacle. The team is not going to just drop Gonzalez, nor do I think they should, but then there are a few threads in the Twins Talk forum already discussing this.

My apologies-need to clarify!

 

IF Marwin cheated. IF this happened against the Twins. I would have bad blood with Marwin if I was one of the pitchers. I would not want him as a teammate, nor would I accept a half a$$ apology.

 

I would prioritize Berrios and the clubhouse culture before forgiving Marwin, IF I was the FO. That is all I meant to say. I do not think they will drop him. But I wish they would-IF he did what is out there.

[bird]

 

  On 2/13/2020 at 3:18 PM, Vanimal46 said:

There’s 2 apologies so far. Is Altuve next?

 

They planned on going alphabetically. But then they realized that would require one of them to learn the alphabet.