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Astros Being Investigated for Using Tech to Steal Pitching Signs

Vanimal46

By Vanimal46
in Other Baseball

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Mike Sixel Cooperstown

Mike Sixel

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I guess it depends on what type of cheating, as many still want Pineda resigned, and many don't seem to care anymore about the PED cheating by Polanco and Cruz, and again, love pitch framing. Not the same thing. I know, I know...... but the fans are still loving the game.  

 

And my sympathies to Vegas.... who never ever stack the deck.

 

Personally, I feel stealing signs is stealing signs. Period. It is up to the players to figure out a way that they can't be figured out, or even fool the other team with them, and have them constantly changing. Once they put it out there, it is in the public domain, and the signs are fair game, however they get communicated and used by whoever wants to use them. 

 

Sports leagues care what Vegas thinks.....100%. You might not.....

 

Fans don't like fixed sports. They don't like cheating. If fans think that the games aren't fair, they will lose interest. It's one of the reasons these rules exist.

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h2oface Cedar Rapids Kernels

h2oface

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Sports leagues care what Vegas thinks.....100%. You might not.....

 

Fans don't like fixed sports. They don't like cheating. If fans think that the games aren't fair, they will lose interest. It's one of the reasons these rules exist.

 

I respect your opinion, and acknowledge that is what this is. Your opinion. I think that boxing (and other types of fighting", which in my opinion, has been one of, if not the most "fixed" sport there is or ever has been, still gets a lot of action, and while the interest has shifted from the heavyweights, it generate$ a ton of intere$t. Baseball, with it's "unwritten rules", is curious indeed. I don't like "cheating" at all, hence, my disdain for pitch framing. But when it comes to sign stealing, I feel it either is, or it isn't cheating, and there are not degrees of it that make it different. Sign stealing is sign stealing. At present, there is no rule against it, but the directive of quailifying it with penalties. Perhaps there should be a concise, well developed rule in the future. 

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Mike Sixel Cooperstown

Mike Sixel

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I respect your opinion, and acknowledge that is what this is. Your opinion. I think that boxing (and other types of fighting", which in my opinion, has been one of, if not the most "fixed" sport there is or ever has been, still gets a lot of action, and while the interest has shifted from the heavyweights, it generate$ a ton of intere$t. Baseball, with it's "unwritten rules", is curious indeed. I don't like "cheating" at all, hence, my disdain for pitch framing. But when it comes to sign stealing, I feel it either is, or it isn't cheating, and there are not degrees of it that make it different. Sign stealing is sign stealing. At present, there is no rule against it, but the directive of quailifying it with penalties. Perhaps there should be a concise, well developed rule in the future. 

 

there are fan bases considering suing the Astros and MLB for the cheating. It isn't really my opinion, but what you see on line from what national writers are seeing and hearing the team's and fans say.

 

pitch framing is part of the play, and isn't the same thing at all. Not even close. 

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h2oface Cedar Rapids Kernels

h2oface

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there are fan bases considering suing the Astros and MLB for the cheating. It isn't really my opinion, but what you see on line from what national writers are seeing and hearing the team's and fans say.

 

pitch framing is part of the play, and isn't the same thing at all. Not even close. 

 

Do you then, consider that sign stealing is not a part of the play, even though it happens in real time (and with no video sometimes from second base by the runner), the same as trying to fool the umpire by moving the glove happens in real time? Certainly they are both efforts to affect the game, in real time, no? I will always feel that it is up to the defense to figure out a way to communicate, and if the opposition figures out a way to uncode that, it is up to the defense to come up with a better, more fool proof plan. I may be in the minority, but I was in the minority calling for robots to call balls and strikes many years ago, too. Passing secret signs is a talent I can get behind. 

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Mike Sixel Cooperstown

Mike Sixel

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Do you then, consider that sign stealing is not a part of the play, even though it happens in real time (and with no video sometimes from second base by the runner), the same as trying to fool the umpire by moving the glove happens in real time? Certainly they are both efforts to affect the game, in real time, no? I will always feel that it is up to the defense to figure out a way to communicate, and if the opposition figures out a way to uncode that, it is up to the defense to come up with a better, more fool proof plan. I may be in the minority, but I was in the minority calling for robots to call balls and strikes many years ago, too. Passing secret signs is a talent I can get behind. 

 

You realize pitch framing is about getting strikes called strikes too, it is not just about "fooling" someone. And no, those two are not the same as people not on the field signaling onto the field. It isn't even comparable.

 

You can certainly have your opinion on sign stealing by players (which I still don't like, but at least it is the players doing all the work), but that is not the same as people not on the field participating at all.

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Mike Sixel Cooperstown

Mike Sixel

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Punishments have just been issued...



Harsh, but at the same time, not harsh enough? I don’t know, I’d sacrifice a year of Baldelli, Falvey, and $5 million for a World Series title.

 

Ha, well, I hope they never actively cheat......

 

It's more about deterring future leaders from doing this. Taking the WS title away does nothing. We all know who won.

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Vanimal46 MVP

Vanimal46

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These suspensions are genuinely good news. Harsh enough? idk. What more can they do? Put an asterisk by the WS title?

The fans have already put an asterisk on the 2017 title but it probably wouldn’t hurt to officially do it as time marches on.

 

I kind of think the suspensions are light... Even though Hinch has the 2nd longest suspension ever for a manager (Pete Rose is #1) and Luhnow has the 6th longest suspension for an executive.

 

If the goal is to truly put a stop to this now and in the future, I think they should have received lifetime bans.

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nicksaviking All-Star

nicksaviking

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Wow, the details of this are astounding to me. The Astros have the perception of being analytically detailed and organized down to the minutia, but this report sounds like the inmates were actually running the asylum. I almost feel bad for Hinch if he actually did try to stop this by breaking the monitors. I agree with the suspension as he should have reported it instead, but that this was basically all Alex Cora and Carlos Beltran setting it up with the video team is just bonkers. The fact that the manager went so far as to break the monitors to stop them from cheating, and they still continued to do it really has me second guessing how tight of a ship Houston is actually running.

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Mike Sixel Cooperstown

Mike Sixel

Old-Timey Member
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Wow, the details of this are astounding to me. The Astros have the perception of being analytically detailed and organized down to the minutia, but this report sounds like the inmates were actually running the asylum. I almost feel bad for Hinch if he actually did try to stop this by breaking the monitors. I agree with the suspension as he should have reported it instead, but that this was basically all Alex Cora and Carlos Beltran setting it up with the video team is just bonkers. The fact that the manager went so far as to break the monitors to stop them from cheating, and they still continued to do it really has me second guessing how tight of a ship Houston is actually running.

 

As usual, the cover up is often worse than the original crime........just report it, get it to stop, and fire the players and anyone else involved. 

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nicksaviking All-Star

nicksaviking

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Man, it would also be great if these suspensions and the organizational turmoil make the Astros struggle the next year or so despite all of their talent, and that struggle would result in draft picks that actually would have been worth a damn.

 

I don't expect the Astros to actively look to trade any players, but it might be a nice time to call up some of the top players' agents to see if those guys are interested in make a stink to influence the team to part with them.

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nicksaviking All-Star

nicksaviking

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And now the Astros have fired both Luhnow and Hinch.

 

And Cora is looking at the same level of punishment for his role.

 

Good for MLB.

 

Wow, they almost had to do it though I guess. How could you have an interim GM making moves without everyone wondering if Luhnow was still actually pulling the strings.

 

Now which team has the the questionable morals to hire these two this time next year? My money is on the Padres hiring both as a package deal. Will they be able to be rehired after the 2020 season? Or will they still be exiled until January 13, 2020.

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Vanimal46 MVP

Vanimal46

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And now the Astros have fired both Luhnow and Hinch.

 

And Cora is looking at the same level of punishment for his role.

 

Good for MLB.

I give the Astros owner some credit here. He’s made swift decisions to get rid of the cheaters in his organization.

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Vanimal46 MVP

Vanimal46

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And now the Astros have fired both Luhnow and Hinch.

 

And Cora is looking at the same level of punishment for his role.

 

Good for MLB.

Forgot to mention, Alex Cora should probably resign right now before the suspension is issued. He personally helped 2 teams win a WA by cheating. He should be banned for life.

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nicksaviking All-Star

nicksaviking

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Forgot to mention, Alex Cora should probably resign right now before the suspension is issued. He personally helped 2 teams win a WA by cheating. He should be banned for life.

 

The fact that they decided on Luhnow's and Hinch's fate and Cora is still dangling makes me think he's going to get hit harder. Maybe Pete Rosing him isn't off of the table.

 

It kind of sounded like MLB had an investigation going and the Mike Fiers statements only ramped things up. I wonder if the Red Sox dumped Dumbrowski early knowing that something might be coming and if they got out in front of it they might avoid harsher punishments. Manfred had already promised the forfeiture of draft picks if teams were busted doing this kind of theing.

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Hrbowski Ft Myers Mighty Mussels

Hrbowski

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This whole punishment is a sham. The Dodgers, Yankees, Brewers, and Nationals also cheat, but get nothing. I suspect the Dodgers and Yankees will never be punished by the league, since they are the favorites.

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