Front Page: So Now What? Here's Twins Daily's Offseason Primer

[toosweet64]

I'll throw up my two cents because the wife won't listen...I'd talk contract with Odo but wouldn't do anything more than 3 years and the price would have to be right. I'd talk with Pineda as well but also wouldn't go longer than a few years. Offer MadBum 2 years at good money. Please do not even talk to Gibson. I think it's clear by now that Berrios isn't a #1. But he's a good #2. The Twins need to go out and find a #1. There isn't one in the system unless Graterol can prove he's a starter and not a future power reliever. They have the prospect depth to deal from and need to at least explore it. We're not paying Cole. The window is open now with Detroit, KC, and Chicago down and Cleveland showing signs of decline.Take advance of the weak division while you can and take your chances in the playoffs. 

 

Castro is gone (unless he's back on a cheaper deal). Tortuga as the back up. I'd consider letting Cron go and moving Sano to first. Let's be honest people, he's not a good third baseman. Marwin plays third. Polanco, Arreaz as your middle IFs, Ehire as back up. Trade Rosario (plus prospects) for pitching - Buxton, Kepler, and Kirilloff/Rooker, as the core OFs + 4th OF guy not named Jake Cave.  

 

Castro, Cron, Schoop, and Pineda off the books opens up money. Use it in the rotation and/or bullpen. I'd consider bringing Romo back, But go get a trusted veteran reliever as well. 

 

C: Garver, Turtle

1st: Sano

2nd: Arreaz

SS: Jorge

3rd: Marwin

OF: Kepler/Bux + Kirilloff/Rooker + 4th guy

DH: Cruz

 

Rotation: Berrios, Odo/MadBum, Graterol + FA + FA/Dobnak

 

Bullpen: Rodgers, May, Duffy, Romo, Littel, plus filler. Find a good LH reliever

[Monkeypaws]

Hey John, gonna pick a nit

 

"Freedom’s just another word for nothing left to lose"

 

Kristoferson, Foster

[Taildragger8791]

 

We have a disgusting amount of time now to discuss Rosario's trade value. To get a start on it, I don't think we're going to like it.

MLB player swaps rarely happen. What do we expect for a 1 WAR player on his last year of control? I doubt it's anything more than a Fernando Romero type... Someone who may have been a top prospect but struggling to live up to it.

 

I don't expect to get a haul for Rosario, but I don't want to extend him either. This lineup could use some steadier bats/defense to compliment the boom/bust, so rather than let him walk I'd rather get something and at the same time see if they can replace one of their most volatile & impatient hitters. I like Rosario and his aggressiveness, he's definitely a gamer and gets big hits, but there just isn't enough upside in his bat at his position to accept the boom/bust outcomes.

[Battle ur tail off]

 

We have a disgusting amount of time now to discuss Rosario's trade value. To get a start on it, I don't think we're going to like it.

MLB player swaps rarely happen. What do we expect for a 1 WAR player on his last year of control? I doubt it's anything more than a Fernando Romero type... Someone who may have been a top prospect but struggling to live up to it.

 

Then just keep him. 

 

He's arbitration eligible, you don't know what to expect from the vaunted prospect gang. My guess is none of them can produce as well as Rosario has until they are 25-26. 

 

 

[Battle ur tail off]

 

I don't expect to get a haul for Rosario, but I don't want to extend him either. This lineup could use some steadier bats/defense to compliment the boom/bust, so rather than let him walk I'd rather get something and at the same time see if they can replace one of their most volatile & impatient hitters. I like Rosario and his aggressiveness, he's definitely a gamer and gets big hits, but there just isn't enough upside in his bat at his position to accept the boom/bust outcomes.

 

He can't just "walk" unless we want him to. I don't hand the keys to some prospect when I have the heart and soul of our team under my control. 

 

Keep Rosario. Bring up your other boys and give them a starting spot, expect about a .200/.300/.350 line. They aren't ready and will take a few years to acclimate either way. 

[Taildragger8791]

 

He can't just "walk" unless we want him to. I don't hand the keys to some prospect when I have the heart and soul of our team under my control. 

 

Keep Rosario. Bring up your other boys and give them a starting spot, expect about a .200/.300/.350 line. They aren't ready and will take a few years to acclimate either way. 

 

I thought he only had a year of arbitration left, my mistake. I wouldn't drop him just to count on a prospect to replace him, since I think pretty much all prospects are suspects until they prove otherwise in the majors. If they find a stopgap free agent for a year or two that would be ideal. Use his $5-$6 million he'll get in arbitration towards a hitter that provides a steady presence in the heart of the order rather than his swing-from-the-heels-on-a-ball-thrown-at-his-eyes boom/bust style.

[Channing1964]

I havent had a lot of time to think about it. Im not going to say what everuone prolly thinks I'll say(and thats to fire the Falvines). For all the griping we all did, the pitching was a big reason why we won 101 games. A lot of those home runs did not come in clutch situations. When i think back to some of the best offenses i have ever seen in my life the '75-77 Red Sox and the 88-90 A's come to mind. I get it that statistically there were better ones but those two stick in my mind. I think they have one championship total. We all know we need some pitchers. Aside from getting Cole....who would get us over the hump? A year ago we were waiting for a window. Now I feel like we have a one year window. Things will never be the same once Nellie retires. We should have the same offense. Maybe Kiriloff can beat out Cron. Buxton we hope will be back healthy. I do not see a reason to do anything but leave the offense alone. $o say we have 70 million we can spend ....what would you do? I for one would want Odorizzi and Pineda back(yes Pineda). You cant sign Polanco to an extension then shun big Mike for the same thing. Minnesotans are never, ever hypocrites. How can we improve on 101 wins? Berrios will be back. Can we take a chance on Gibson? I would. in a reduced role. Cole would be a great ace. Other ones are available too. If we wanna take the next step it ses obvious that we need 1 (or2) top flight starters and maybe another lights out left handed reliever. We have the money. Please? Let's not do some dumb newsmaking trade for Mookie Betts bull$hit. it really isnt broken....lets just upgrade it.

[Mike Sixel]

I see all of the talk of trading Rosario and don't like it. To me he is more of a core guy than Miguel Sano. Sano is still young enough and talented enough that you should be able to use him to trade for starting pitching. Buxton is a trade chip too.

Rosario is a slightly below average corner outfielder with two years of control left. They also have two top 75 corner outfield prospects. Rosario is also more expensive than Buxton or Sano. That matters to a team with a budget.

[Channing1964]

RIP 2019 Twins...thanks for the great memories!

[Channing1964]

Rosario is a slightly below average corner outfielder with two years of control left. They also have two top 75 corner outfield prospects. Rosario is also more expensive than Buxton or Sano. That matters to a team with a budget.

I dont want to start an argument. i just want to remind everyone that Rosario is one of us now. Nobody was trying to trade him in September of 2017, or at all last year. He has shown he can become an elite player. Consistency will be the key. As it is with any 22-26 year old player.

[Monkeypaws]

 

 They also have two top 75 corner outfield prospects. 

Neither of whom is proven at the MLB level. Classic bird in hand is with two in the bush scenario.

[Mike Sixel]

Neither of whom is proven at the MLB level. Classic bird in hand is with two in the bush scenario.

I never said they were. I was replying to the thought that somehow a below average, expensive, corner OF was more valuable than Buxton or Sano....

[jrod23]

My hatred for the Yankees right now is blinding my emotions.

[labcrazy]

So thinking to next year. Tell me where I am wrong with the Twins moves.

Pick up the option on Nelson (no brainer)
Decline options on Perez (7MM) and Dyson. Do not re-sign Schoop or Cron (Move Sano to 1st).  Only re-sign Castro if price is right to be back-up catcher for 1 year. Otherwise find a decent left handed hitting backup catcher. Many of them around to be had. Bring back Romo for 1 year. He’s a great team guy and very experienced. His “spinners” work with our other power arms from right side.

Put the qualifying offer on Odorizzi. Pretty much confirms he would be back for at least 1 year when a draft pick gets hooked to him.

Do not bring back Pineda. Misses first 40 games of next year to suspension. That’s ¼ of a season. No thanks.

Consider trading Sano or Rosario along with a couple decent prospects for a good young front line starter. Not sure yet who that might be but must be one somewhere? (Maybe Thor?) I would prefer Sano be the one as he just doesn’t make enough contact for me and isn’t much for defense at 3rd. If you keep him he needs to play first and make a little better contact. He will always strike out a lot but 8 times in 12 at bats in playoffs is not acceptable. If Rosario would be traded find a decent outfielder to plug in. Pirates might want to move Starling Marte as he is due a larger salary than they like to carry. They would likely trade him quite willingly.

Since Sano has now moved to 1st and Arizona is rebuilding you check with them to see what it would cost to make a trade and bring Eduardo Escobar back to play 3rd. We could use a LH power bat and I love Eduardo!

Sign a very good  reliever to pair with Rogers. Not sure who yet but they will be available.

Would love to have Garret Cole. Not going to happen. Strasburg might be available. Not going to happen. That’s why we need to find really good young arm and probably over pay a bit. This person has to be someone we can keep for 2-3 years at a minimum.

Sign Zack Wheeler for the rotation. Good arm to add to rotation. Sign a lefty for rotation. Cole Hamels maybe??

Rotation would than be Berrios, Odo, Wheeler, Lefty starter (Hamels?) and Graterol.  Have Smeltzer, Thorpe and Doubnek at AAA as needed to step into rotation in case of injuries.

Edited October 8, 2019 by labcrazy

[Chachi]

The only way the Twins add a front line pitcher will be if they build yet another new bar at Target Field and name it "Front Line Pitcher"

[deebs1976]

Top tier FA SPs:

Cole, Strasburg

 

Second-tier FA SPs:

Bumgarner, Ryu, Wheeler

 

Third-tier FA SPs:

Odorizzi, Keuchel, Hamels, Pineda

 

Fourth-tier FA SPs: 

Bailey, Smyly, Wainwright, Miley, Roark, Vargas, Teheran, Wood, Chacin

 

Trade candidate SPs:

Syndegaard, Ray, Minor, Boyd, Urena, Samardzija, Scherzer (probably wishful thinking)

 

Get 1-2 guys from tiers 1-3. Trade a Rosario package for another SP. Sign 1-2 more SPs from the fourth tier or scrap heap to fill out the rotation. Give Smeltzer/Thorpe/Graterol a shot to win a rotation job. Be ready to trade for a rental SP at the deadline if things look shaky. Their failure to pick up a starter at the deadline this year was a huge part of their downfall.

[USAFChief]

 

I dont want to start an argument. i just want to remind everyone that Rosario is one of us now. Nobody was trying to trade him in September of 2017, or at all last year. He has shown he can become an elite player. Consistency will be the key. As it is with any 22-26 year old player.

I don't want to start an argument either, but Rosario is 28.

[Vanimal46]

Top tier FA SPs:

Cole, Strasburg

 

Second-tier FA SPs:

Bumgarner, Ryu, Wheeler

 

Third-tier FA SPs:

Odorizzi, Keuchel, Hamels, Pineda

 

Fourth-tier FA SPs:

Bailey, Smyly, Wainwright, Miley, Roark, Vargas, Teheran, Wood, Chacin

 

Trade candidate SPs:

Syndegaard, Ray, Minor, Boyd, Urena, Samardzija, Scherzer (probably wishful thinking)

 

Get 1-2 guys from tiers 1-3. Trade a Rosario package for another SP. Sign 1-2 more SPs from the fourth tier or scrap heap to fill out the rotation. Give Smeltzer/Thorpe/Graterol a shot to win a rotation job. Be ready to trade for a rental SP at the deadline if things look shaky. Their failure to pick up a starter at the deadline this year was a huge part of their downfall.

I like your tiers. I will argue Wheeler will be a top tier FA and get paid like one.

 

I get the feeling Odorizzi will be a target for the Astros... They love pitchers who live in the top of the zone and if he goes there, they'll find another level to unlock with him.

 

Rosario makes the most sense to trade but again, I don't think his trade value is very attractive. They would have to pony up a good value prospect along with him to get something decent in return.

 

Finally, I would prefer not having any internal option, no matter how many, fighting for the #5 spot in the rotation. Go out and fill all 5 spots with veterans they think will help win.

[mdawg888]

 

Yeah. It's time to go grab an ace (if he's really serious) or shut up as the saying goes. Quite frankly and honestly (again playing capt. obvious) this was the year they should have done it at the trade deadline and they did NOTHING on the starting pitching front.

 

We will never see a regular season outburst like this again from this franchise in our lifetimes. Next year (if they stick to the status quo of what they've got for players) i expect them to regress in wins by about 10-15 games. No way will the team have 8 players hitting 20+ homeruns.

I feel compelled to get back to commenting here after that mess of a series, as I basically read this site every day.

1. Totally agree, would love to see an ace or somebody close to or above Berrios-level. Would love to see Cole, but am expecting somebody like Wheeler. 

2. The thing that worries me about 2020 already is how all these injuries will affect these guys going into the offseason, and thus, their ability to get ready for the start of the spring training and the season. In the first month of the season we have 7 games against the A's, 3 vs. Cleveland, 3 vs. Boston and 2 vs. the LAD. Not the easiest out of the gate if you're missing key parts. 

[PDX Twin]

I'd part with Rosario in a trade if they could replace him with a high-OBP guy that has some speed. They have all the power that they need, even if the baseball comes back to earth next year and homeruns are down. What they need is one more guy like Arraez getting on base regularly so that the solo homers become 2-run homers. And having a guy who is a threat to run forces mistakes from the pitcher and defense. With Buxton out we had exactly zero of those down the stretch.

[nicksaviking]

 

Neither of whom is proven at the MLB level. Classic bird in hand is with two in the bush scenario.

 

True, but you can also pick up usable corner outfielders on the free agent market real cheap. If someone is willing to offer some pitching for one of ours, I'm more than fine picking up whomever next year's Avisail Garcia, Nick Markakis, Adam Jones, Cameron Maybin or Hunter Pence is and bide our time with them waiting to see if the prospects emerge.

[rv78]

Until MLB puts a stop to the big market teams outspending and gobbling up all the top talent available nothing will change.

 

They need to acquire a true ACE pitcher and a true #2 pitcher either thru Free Agency or trade or both. Will they be able to compete for them due to what I just posted above? I doubt it. 

I'd like to see an ACE and a #2 starter plus Berrios, Odorizzi and Pineda in the rotation next year. If it is anything different than that it'll be another short playoff run in 2020.

[Mike Sixel]

The only way the Twins add a front line pitcher will be if they build yet another new bar at Target Field and name it "Front Line Pitcher"

Thread!

[Bomba2026]

At least Eddie showed up last night with his bat.....I like Eddie and I think he will improve just like everyone should. Eddie needs to go back to left field, Bucky in Center and Kepler in Right. Hell maybe Eddie hates MN...I hope not. He is an exciting player and fans love him.

[diehardtwinsfan]

This might not be a bad place to post links to things like our rule V eligibility and projected salaries as well. I know we dumped a couple guys we'd have likely lost (Diaz, Holmes), but I still think they're going to have a roster crunch on teh 40 man to deal with as well.

 

The question is whether or not a top self starter is available via trade or not. Cole/Strassburg are obvious targets and landing one of them would be huge (and also highly unlikely)... 

 

Here's their current payroll situation.

 

Here's the 40 man. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

The only way the Twins add a front line pitcher will be if they build yet another new bar at Target Field and name it "Front Line Pitcher"

Now there's a dragon that Dave St. Peter can really slay!

[beckmt]

 

I love all the optimism, but the Twins will not be signing Cole, Strasburg, etc. It just won't happen. The Twins have never invested that type of money in a SP, and it won't start now.

There is always a first time

[beckmt]

 

So thinking to next year. Tell me where I am wrong with the Twins moves.

Pick up the option on Nelson (no brainer)
Decline options on Perez (7MM) and Dyson. Do not re-sign Schoop or Cron (Move Sano to 1st).  Only re-sign Castro if price is right to be back-up catcher for 1 year. Otherwise find a decent left handed hitting backup catcher. Many of them around to be had. Bring back Romo for 1 year. He’s a great team guy and very experienced. His “spinners” work with our other power arms from right side.

Put the qualifying offer on Odorizzi. Pretty much confirms he would be back for at least 1 year when a draft pick gets hooked to him.

Do not bring back Pineda. Misses first 40 games of next year to suspension. That’s ¼ of a season. No thanks.

Consider trading Sano or Rosario along with a couple decent prospects for a good young front line starter. Not sure yet who that might be but must be one somewhere? (Maybe Thor?) I would prefer Sano be the one as he just doesn’t make enough contact for me and isn’t much for defense at 3rd. If you keep him he needs to play first and make a little better contact. He will always strike out a lot but 8 times in 12 at bats in playoffs is not acceptable. If Rosario would be traded find a decent outfielder to plug in. Pirates might want to move Starling Marte as he is due a larger salary than they like to carry. They would likely trade him quite willingly.

Since Sano has now moved to 1st and Arizona is rebuilding you check with them to see what it would cost to make a trade and bring Eduardo Escobar back to play 3rd. We could use a LH power bat and I love Eduardo!

Sign a very good  reliever to pair with Rogers. Not sure who yet but they will be available.

Would love to have Garret Cole. Not going to happen. Strasburg might be available. Not going to happen. That’s why we need to find really good young arm and probably over pay a bit. This person has to be someone we can keep for 2-3 years at a minimum.

Sign Zack Wheeler for the rotation. Good arm to add to rotation. Sign a lefty for rotation. Cole Hamels maybe??

Rotation would than be Berrios, Odo, Wheeler, Lefty starter (Hamels?) and Graterol.  Have Smeltzer, Thorpe and Doubnek at AAA as needed to step into rotation in case of injuries.

The difference between Cole or Strasburg and Wheeler may be $10 million a year.  The difference is results, priceless.

[Vanimal46]

“Sign or bail” with Twins FAs. What do you do?

 

Odorizzi-

Pineda-

Schoop-

Castro-

Romo-

Gibson-

Perez-

Cruz (rhetorical)

[srlarson]

twins won't be buyers for front of the rotation guys.....12 pitchers will look like this...

 

Berrios

Odorizzi

Pineda

Graterol

Dobnak

 

Rogers

Duffey

Romo

Smeltzer

May

Littell

????