Front Page: Twins at Risk of Sinking to New Low with October Woes

[rdehring]

I don't get all the criticism.  Doesn't it make sense to hold Rogers back until our backs against the wall and it really matters?

[Thebigalguy]

I agree with the criticism with the proviso that it ain’t over until it’s over. We’ll have an entire offseason for autopsies. Meanwhile, I remember the Yanks with a 3-0 game lead on Boston. Remember what happened? Hope springs eternal until the last inning.

[peterb18]

The problem is the Pohlads. Not even the slightest interest in baseball. All businesses need leadership from ownership. We don’t have that. And never an article in the Star Tribune evaluating this weak ownership. Gripes they’ve tried to at one time sell the team and once tried to contract. Just interested in the money.

[KidBro]

Didn’t the Twins have about a 100 point higher winning percentage on the road compared to home this season?

I expected a split in NY, a split in Min and Gm5 all hands on deck. Gm 1 was our chance to split in NY.  I won’t cite Baldelli not using Rogers and Romo as of yet as issues. They are our late inning guys, one of which with plenty of October experience. I think Berrios should have been brought back out to start the 5th, w/ Duffy and May ready to bridge the gap to late innings. Shoot even Graterol. But glad he got a look, experience, and confidence. He can and should be used if/when necessary.

[SomeGuy]

 

I think there’s only one pitcher better than Berríos on the free agent market next year.

I'm guessing that Strasburg will opt out of his contract.

 

Stuff-wise Berrios has a case as being better than these pitchers but from a recent FIP standpoint there isn't much difference between him and Bumgarner, Keuchel, Quintana, Wood, or Wheeler.

[twinfan]

My take is that the rotation for this series was messed up from the get-go. Berrios and Odorizzi should have started games 1 and 2. I also believe that, as bad as he may have been, Perez should have been on the roster. There is no substitute for experience. Also, depending on how the first 2 games would have gone would determine who starts game 3. While I hope we can win tonight and maybe even tomorrow if Berrios can pitch on short rest, I don't see us winning a game 5 if it gets that far. I also did not believe that our bullpen was better than the Yankees bullpen going in though both closers were close to equal. I don't blame Rocco with his decisions though it looks bad with what he has chosen. I would probably have picked May in game 1 and who knows in game 2 as noone was used to that situation (maybe Perez to face Didi). I hope we can get the lead tonight and Odo can hold down the fort. GO TWINS!

[Dave Overlund]

What happened to "enjoy the ride?" I can't count how many times I was told that when I suggested they add to their thin pitching ranks...

[Aerodeliria]

It's mind-boggling to me that Baldelli goes from his Joan of Arc patience with his starters to Captain Hook. As I can watch the games here in Japan on cable, I was a bit flummoxed at Baldelli's quick hook. Berrios was not getting hit hard IMHO and Dobnak wasn't even given a chance to work out of the jam despite his record of consistently managing such situations during the regular season. (I just wanted one more batter in the third inning. If you say he is your starter, there has to be a modicum of trust in his ability.)

[scottz]

Aaron Judge has won exactly as many championships as Eddie Rosario. Gleyber Torres has won as many as Miguel Sano. The Twins are playing as if every one of these guys is Mickey Mantle or Babe Ruth. Grow a pair and play ball.

[Dave Overlund]

 

Well, you could argue that our ace is out due to an untimely urine sample.  That pretty much sealed our fate.  MLB wants the Yankees in the playoffs...it's about money.  I doubt they will get that untimely urine sample that takes their ace out of the playoffs.

Their ace was suspended right before the playoffs on suspicion of domestic abuse. So, this conspiracy theory doesn't add up. 

[twinfan]

 

Well, you could argue that our ace is out due to an untimely urine sample.  That pretty much sealed our fate.  MLB wants the Yankees in the playoffs...it's about money.  I doubt they will get that untimely urine sample that takes their ace out of the playoffs.

 

You can't say they are making calls to favor the Yanks. They have gotten healthy while we have gotten stupid (Pineda) and injured. The hotter and healthier team wins but making poor pitches to a guy who hadn't played in a month (Encarnacion) in game 1 and starting a rookie with 3 games of experience (game 2) is not a formula for winning- no matter how good or bad we hit. Now bat Arraz leadoff and let's get this party started tonight.

[Dave Overlund]

 

True, but he's WAY better.

 

I don't even need Cole, though. Find a way to acquire a good pitcher like Minor, retain Odorizzi, and the Twins are most of the way to a good rotation.

 

But fer chrissakes, don't just sit on their effing hands for an entire offseason again when it comes to pitching.

We will get the latest edition of Correia, Pelfrey, Nolasco, Perez, Colon, etc to go with Berrios/Odo/Dobnak etc. The Pohlads have owned the team for 35 years now, there is no reason to expect them to all the sudden change their ways. They made bank this year doing it the way they have always done it- being competitive and hard-selling the future. The future never comes, though. Ever. 

[USAFChief]

 

It's mind-boggling to me that Baldelli goes from his Joan of Arc patience with his starters to Captain Hook. As I can watch the games here in Japan on cable, I was a bit flummoxed at Baldelli's quick hook. Berrios was not getting hit hard IMHO and Dobnak wasn't even given a chance to work out of the jam despite his record of consistently managing such situations during the regular season. (I just wanted one more batter in the third inning. If you say he is your starter, there has to be a modicum of trust in his ability.)

In his 28 innings?

 

Personally, I think he left Dobnak in too long.

[bighat]

 

All I can say is that Twins gave up 18 runs, were kind of, maybe in game one but arguably their three best pitchers -- Odorizzi, Rogers and Romo -- have yet to pitch in the series.

 

That's the problem with Rocco's super-smooth managing.

 

Kick 'em in the teeth Rocco.

 

Thing is though - by the time Duffey was brought in (both games) it was almost like the game had already spun out of control and was out of reach.

 

Bringing in Rogers with the bases loaded and nobody out, in the 3rd inning, already down 2-0....is that really the best use of Rogers? Even a solid outing by Rogers in that situation would still leave the Twins down 3-0 or 4-0 (as opposed to 7-0). So now you're down 4-0 and if you somehow come back to tie or take the lead, Rogers isn't there and you're watching Trevor May come in for 2 innings late in Yankee Stadium to close the door. Does that end well? Chances are it doesn't.

 

We knew pitching would be a problem. Everyone did. The Twins have been winning games with final scores of 9-7 all year long.

 

For the Twins to have any chance of winning the series (let alone the game) the offense is going to have to put up at least 8 runs. The offense scored 4 and 2 runs, respectively. There's simply no way this team can win games without more runs that that. Regardless of whether or not Rogers or Odorizzi were in the game or not.

 

The offense needs to score a bunch of runs. Period. Fair or not, it's on them to win this game and this series. Because the pitching staff is a lost cause, regardless of how they are managed.

 

[Number3]

Ironically, the small college I went to just ended a 12 game losing streak to a conference rival last Sat. Twins absolutely must win tonight to avoid putting a huge damper on a great season. They would also set the record for the most consecutive playoff losses in all of pro sports if they lose. I think Pedro Ramos is still alive. Maybe he could start tonight.

[Tomj14]

 

I don't get all the criticism.  Doesn't it make sense to hold Rogers back until our backs against the wall and it really matters?

You mean like the 3inning with the base loaded?

[Tomj14]

 

In his 28 innings?

 

Personally, I think he left Dobnak in too long.

If that is the case he should never have started him. Or started him and gave him 1 or 2 innings only. If you send out a rookie (or even a young guy) and tell him this is your game, you must be almost perfect or we will pull you at the first sign of trouble, these are the kind of results you end up with most of the time.

Edited October 7, 2019 by Tomj14

[insagt1]

Hindsight...Berrios was probably taken out too soon. Dobnak needed to come out after 2 innings. His sinker wasn't sinking. the 'moment' kinda overtook him, which is understandable. He never should have come out for the 3rd. Hindsight.

 

Our hitters have been a terrible disappointment. All those 3-2 strikeouts. All those strikeouts period. Cron and Kepler look very injured and aren't helping the team at all. Sano hit a solo in game one and then he reverted back to that undisciplined hacker in game two. Rosario looks to me like a spoiled kid.

 

There has not been one specific thing that has sunk the Twins, It has been a total team effort. They are non-competitive. All those walks....shows the pitchers have no confidence in their stuff. Yanks have been patient. Twins not at all. Night and Day.

 

I've said this already...there are two types of fans. One tells you to stop complaining because what a great season they had..,.101 wins. The other says, until the team can succeed, even a little in post season, nothing else matters. We will be seeing both types of comments once this carnage is over.

 

And don't forget the Pineda effect. Look at how much he has hurt the teams chances in post season. Unforgivable IMO.

 

So---they just need to go out there and give it their best shot tonite...with nothing at all to lose. Until the Yanks get that 27th out, they haven't won anything. As unlikely as it is that anything will change, the score right now is still 0-0.

 

Go for it!!!!

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

It's mind-boggling to me that Baldelli goes from his Joan of Arc patience with his starters to Captain Hook. As I can watch the games here in Japan on cable, I was a bit flummoxed at Baldelli's quick hook. Berrios was not getting hit hard IMHO and Dobnak wasn't even given a chance to work out of the jam despite his record of consistently managing such situations during the regular season. (I just wanted one more batter in the third inning. If you say he is your starter, there has to be a modicum of trust in his ability.)

Has Baldelli really been that patient with his starters? Hard to tell with the rest strategy in play too, especially with our division lead, but pulling Berrios at 88 pitches doesn't seem too out of line. Especially given the quality opponent, the higher stakes, Berrios's stuff that day, and the heart of the order coming up for a third time. And Dobnak certainly doesn't have much history at all, much less a history of pitching deep into games.

 

Neither hook seemed surprising to me, but Stashak in a 1-run game was surprising, no hook for Gibson was surprising, and the first reliever choice of game 2 was very surprising (Duffey having already thrown 25 high stress pitches less than 24 hours earlier).

[Battle ur tail off]

 

You're underrating Berrios. Do you realize just how good he was this season? The Yankees didn't have a single starter as good as he was this season.

 

 

 

Hmmm. Not sure if you watched game 1, but the lefthander they threw out there was much more composed, had much better command, and struck out all kinds of Twins hitters. 

 

 

[Tomj14]

 

 

Thing is though - by the time Duffey was brought in (both games) it was almost like the game had already spun out of control and was out of reach.

 

Bringing in Rogers with the bases loaded and nobody out, in the 3rd inning, already down 2-0....is that really the best use of Rogers? Even a solid outing by Rogers in that situation would still leave the Twins down 3-0 or 4-0 (as opposed to 7-0). So now you're down 4-0 and if you somehow come back to tie or take the lead, Rogers isn't there and you're watching Trevor May come in for 2 innings late in Yankee Stadium to close the door. Does that end well? Chances are it doesn't.

 

We knew pitching would be a problem. Everyone did. The Twins have been winning games with final scores of 9-7 all year long.

 

For the Twins to have any chance of winning the series (let alone the game) the offense is going to have to put up at least 8 runs. The offense scored 4 and 2 runs, respectively. There's simply no way this team can win games without more runs that that. Regardless of whether or not Rogers or Odorizzi were in the game or not.

 

The offense needs to score a bunch of runs. Period. Fair or not, it's on them to win this game and this series. Because the pitching staff is a lost cause, regardless of how they are managed.

Actually the game was 1 - 0 when Duffey came into pitch on Saturday. He gave up a Sac fly, single, hit a batter than a grand slam and boom 7- 0.

So depending on how tonight goes, the Twins could finish a playoff series and never use arguably their pitcher.

But they did use Littell, Stashak and Duffey twice in a 1 run game.

 

 

[Battle ur tail off]

I don't know what to think about this postseason so far. To me the #1 thing I and almost everyone else noticed, is that Rocco is getting schooled. And badly might I add. He really hasn't made a right decision yet. 

 

That said, our hitters have been as bad as the pitching has. The patience they displayed earlier on is gone. All of them, except Cruz, looked SCARED up there. Swinging at bad pitches, letting good pitches go, getting themselves out far too often. 

 

The pitching..... Uugh. It's been bad, real bad. Not playoff worthy in the least. 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Dobnak wasn't even given a chance to work out of the jam

In his 28 innings? Personally, I think he left Dobnak in too long.

For the record, I don’t disagree with either of you.

[USAFChief]

 

You're underrating Berrios. Do you realize just how good he was this season? The Yankees didn't have a single starter as good as he was this season.

 

Berrios, second starter? Yes, absolutely. But even if you pick up someone better than Berrios, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if he's better than what you picked up by season's end.

 

But aim, at the minimum, Berrios or better for a starting pitcher acquisition.

My guess is Berrios would be the 4th starter in Houston's post season rotation, the 3rd in NY's postseason rotation (4th if German doesn't get suspended), the 3rd or 4th in LA's postseason rotation, the 3rd in Washington's, the 3rd in Atlanta's, and the 2nd or 3rd in TB's.

 

 Again, what's the goal here? Win the ALC?

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I don't know what to think about this postseason so far. To me the #1 thing I and almost everyone else noticed, is that Rocco is getting schooled. And badly might I add. He really hasn't made a right decision yet. 

 

That said, our hitters have been as bad as the pitching has. The patience they displayed earlier on is gone. All of them, except Cruz, looked SCARED up there. Swinging at bad pitches, letting good pitches go, getting themselves out far too often. 

 

The pitching..... Uugh. It's been bad, real bad. Not playoff worthy in the least.

 

Give Polanco some credit too. Otherwise, yeah.

[Battle ur tail off]

Yep, Polanco has been great. He's tough as nails and not scared of anyone. He's been great this series. 

[Tomj14]

 

My guess is Berrios would be the 4th starter in Houston's post season rotation, the 3rd in NY's postseason rotation (4th if German doesn't get suspended), the 3rd or 4th in LA's postseason rotation, the 3rd in Washington's, the 3rd in Atlanta's, and the 2nd or 3rd in TB's.

 

 Again, what's the goal here? Win the ALC?

you could add that of the 8 starting pitchers on friday, he was someplace between 6 - 8th best.

[Battle ur tail off]

 

 Again, what's the goal here? Win the ALC?

 

Yes, it is and always has been. Also selling tickets, T-shirts and 10 dollar beers. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

My guess is Berrios would be the 4th starter in Houston's post season rotation, the 3rd in NY's postseason rotation (4th if German doesn't get suspended), the 3rd or 4th in LA's postseason rotation, the 3rd in Washington's, the 3rd in Atlanta's, and the 2nd or 3rd in TB's.

 

 Again, what's the goal here? Win the ALC?

I'd take Berrios over Paxton and Tanaka so YMMV on this argument.

 

And Houston has a historically good starting rotation so aiming for that kind of improvement in a single season just isn't going to happen.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Hmmm. Not sure if you watched game 1, but the lefthander they threw out there was much more composed, had much better command, and struck out all kinds of Twins hitters. 

I watched the game. I saw that almighty lefty give up a few homers and a bunch of Twins hitters flail away like they'd never seen a major league pitcher before. Whereas the Yankees spit on every Berrios pitch that was even close to being out of the zone.

 

It's more than just the pitcher. The hitters have a role to play here, too. And the Yankees hitters flat-out beat the Twins hitters, despite the Twins hitters getting a few good pitches to knock out of the park (but always with no one on base because other hitters were swinging out of their shoes on bad pitches).

 

And DESPITE THAT, Berrios gave up all of one earned run while Paxton gave up three. BTW, Berrios struck out six. Paxton struck out eight.