Front Page: Twins ALDS Game 2 Recap: Nothing Works, Twins Lose 12th Straight To Yankees

[Mike Sixel]

It blows my mind that Garver and the pitchers seem surprised that the strategy of trying to get them to chase those isn't working.

How are they this unprepared for their opponent? Laying off those pitches has been the Yankees MO for as long as Cashman has been in charge. It's why Yankees games take 4 hours, they don't swing at junk. How are they just now realizing that?

I assume you mean the front office strategy. This isn't decided by the catcher or pitchers.

[Mike Sixel]

Do people think Rocco decided on Dobnak without the front office? I'm guessing no.

 

The failures of this team are in the front office, as are the successes. Yes, Rocco makes a difference, he's part of that front office team, but he doesn't decide lives lineups our starters without the front office.

 

Passing on Corbin and Keuchel is the biggest issue with this team.

[puckstopper1]

The results of the first two games are not surprising to me.

 

That does not make them any less disappointing...

[Mr. Brooks]

So start Dobnak in game three? That's the same thing. I really don't know what you actually wanted different.

No, it's not the same.

These are humans not robots. Starting a game in a hostile Yankee Stadium is not the same as starting a game in your home stadium.

That moment was WAY too big for a kid that was driving an Uber last year.

[Mr. Brooks]

Do people think Rocco decided on Dobnak without the front office? I'm guessing no.

 

The failures of this team are in the front office, as are the successes. Yes, Rocco makes a difference, he's part of that front office team, but he doesn't decide lives lineups our starters without the front office.

 

Passing on Corbin and Keuchel is the biggest issue with this team.

I'm sure they have input, but it was 100% Rocco's call. He's the manager.

[wsnydes]

No, it's not the same.

These are humans not robots. Starting a game in a hostile Yankee Stadium is not the same as starting a game in your home stadium.

That moment was WAY too big for a kid that was driving an Uber last year.

I tend to agree with this, but I'm not sure a home start in a fired up Target Field in a do or die game would be any better of a scenario. He basically had to go at some point since there really aren't any better options. It's really just not an ideal scenario to be in a position where he had to start to begin with. But that's the hand that was dealt.

 

And I think I'd prefer a veteran to go at a fired up Target Field in a do or die situation. Whichever game he started, it's ripe for second guessing. So in the end, I'm not sure it matters which game he started because neither situation is a good one.

[Mr. Brooks]

I tend to agree with this, but I'm not sure a home start in a fired up Target Field in a do or die game would be any better of a scenario. He basically had to go at some point since there really aren't any better options. It's really just not an ideal scenario to be in a position where he had to start to begin with. But that's the hand that was dealt.

 

And I think I'd prefer a veteran to go at a fired up Target Field in a do or die situation. Whichever game he started, it's ripe for second guessing. So in the end, I'm not sure it matters which game he started because neither situation is a good one.

If they'd won game 2, it wouldn't have been a do or die situation coming home for game 3.

 

Game 2 was an absolute must win game. It should have been treated like a game 7. Nobody would say start Dobnak in game 7 if you have Odorizzi rested and available.

The series is over now. This team has no shot at beating NY 3 straight times.

[Mr. Brooks]

I tend to agree with this, but I'm not sure a home start in a fired up Target Field in a do or die game would be any better of a scenario. He basically had to go at some point since there really aren't any better options. It's really just not an ideal scenario to be in a position where he had to start to begin with. But that's the hand that was dealt.

 

And I think I'd prefer a veteran to go at a fired up Target Field in a do or die situation. Whichever game he started, it's ripe for second guessing. So in the end, I'm not sure it matters which game he started because neither situation is a good one.

And if we win game 3, who starts games 4 and 5?

Game 2 with Odorizzi was the one to win. That would have allowed Berrios and Odorizzi to start games 4 and 5. That was the path to any possible victory.

Now you're stuck with Dobnak or Smeltzer starting game 5 should you force it.

[wsnydes]

And if we win game 3, who starts games 4 and 5?

Game 2 with Odorizzi was the one to win. That would have allowed Berrios and Odorizzi to start games 4 and 5. That was the path to any possible victory.

Now you're stuck with Dobnak or Smeltzer starting game 5 should you force it.

And if Odorizzi gets lit up and loses game 2 anyway you have to rely on these guys anyway. In my view, it's really just a distinction without a difference. Either way these guys have to go. When they go is really just like shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic in my opinion.

 

There really isn't an ideal situation to have them go at all. There'd be plenty of people destroying Rocco if Odo got lit up yesterday and now the hopes fall on a former Uber driver. I just don't see that it makes any difference. I think this conversation would be happening either way. Their strategy would still be bad and the results the same. 2 runs from the offense isn't beating the Yankees.

[Mr. Brooks]

And if Odorizzi gets lit up and loses game 2 anyway you have to rely on these guys anyway. In my view, it's really just a distinction without a difference. Either way these guys have to go. When they go is really just like shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic in my opinion.

 

There really isn't an ideal situation to have them go at all. There'd be plenty of people destroying Rocco if Odo got lit up yesterday and now the hopes fall on a former Uber driver. I just don't see that it makes any difference. I think this conversation would be happening either way. Their strategy would still be bad and the results the same. 2 runs from the offense isn't beating the Yankees.

It makes a difference because it would have allowed Odorizzi to start twice if needed.

Again, who starts games 4 and 5 now?

[Mr. Brooks]

And if Odorizzi gets lit up and loses game 2 anyway you have to rely on these guys anyway. In my view, it's really just a distinction without a difference. Either way these guys have to go. When they go is really just like shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic in my opinion.

 

There really isn't an ideal situation to have them go at all. There'd be plenty of people destroying Rocco if Odo got lit up yesterday and now the hopes fall on a former Uber driver. I just don't see that it makes any difference. I think this conversation would be happening either way. Their strategy would still be bad and the results the same. 2 runs from the offense isn't beating the Yankees.

Perhaps the offense scores more runs if they aren't immediately put in an 8 run hole.

[LaBombo]

 

Again, who starts games 4 and 5 now?

 

"I wouldn't worry about it".

 

[Mr. Brooks]

And if Odorizzi loses game 2, then the series is over anyway, but at least you took a shot. Game 2 was a must win game, period (IMO).

 

Starting Randy Dobnak was pretty much a guaranteed loss. There is a reason he was driving an Uber last year, and started the year in single A. He's not a major league pitcher, never will be.

[Mr. Brooks]

"I wouldn't worry about it".

 

You're probably right, but the team has a decent chance of winning the next 2 with Odorizzi and Berrios. They have zero chance in game 5 now though.

[bird]

 

I'm done. I'm just soooo over this train wreck of a franchise. Life has too much to offer to waste anymore time or concern on this nonsense. They suck when they're bad and they suck when they're good. No more. Goodbye Twins. 

 

 

Can I have your Kohl Stewart jersey?

[LVTwinsfan]

The Twins were a big surprise this season. I’m disappointed as are many that they haven’t played better in NY. But unless you catch lightning in a bottle you just can’t win in the playoffs without reliable starting pitching. The lack of it affects all aspects of the game. Slow innings with upwards of twenty pitches has the defense on its heels, puts way too much pressure on the offense and is a negative force to the overall morale of the team. Why the FO passed on pitching help this year is a big question mark, hopefully they fix it in the off season. If they don’t then their goals are not the same as most loyal fans. I will watch until this series is over. Can the Twins win three in a row? Of course they can. The odds are against them for sure but they won’t give up. I don’t believe a sweep though defines this team in any way. These players had nothing to do with past teams performances and I certainly don’t believe in childish curses. Win or lose the Twins will be back, they definitely have something to build on here. Fixing the pitching should obviously be the top priority and we will all be watching closely. I am not embarrassed by this team, they are relatively young and exceeded all expectations for this season. They have no realistic chance for a Championship this season and to say its World Series or bust this season just isn’t practical. But it’s never too late to catch lightning in a bottle! It’s baseball anything can happen. Win or lose though, I’m still a Twin’s supporter and a fan. Go Twins!

[mrtwinsfan]

Twins have never won a Game 3 after losing first two games of a series,  what have we ever done to give us hope Monday,  i am wondering what Odorizzi mindset is,  Veteran pitcher - he pitched 6+ good innings at Yankee stadium this year, All Rocco was doing was trying to prevent using Openers 2 games in a row, I may be wrong but isent almost every game a bullpen game with this team anyway ????, Why not try a Graterol to start, at least he has Power pitches, Dobnak - come on good story but be real here people, this is not K.C. Detroit and Chicago, Great Year and all , Post season is a whole different game, Watch all the other teams how they use the Pen, Its Different and we were not Prepared and until we do ?????????  Depression Day 

Edited October 6, 2019 by mrtwinsfan

[LaBombo]

 

You're probably right, but the team has a decent chance of winning the next 2 with Odorizzi and Berrios. They have zero chance in game 5 now though.

 

Fwiw, my guess is that either two starts for Odo OR a home instead of road start for the kid who's a better story than pitcher could be a difference maker in the series.

Edited October 6, 2019 by LaBombo

[Mr. Brooks]

The Twins were a big surprise this season. I’m disappointed as are many that they haven’t played better in NY. But unless you catch lightning in a bottle you just can’t win in the playoffs without reliable starting pitching. The lack of it affects all aspects of the game. Slow innings with upwards of twenty pitches has the defense on its heels, puts way too much pressure on the offense and is a negative force to the overall morale of the team. Why the FO passed on pitching help this year is a big question mark, hopefully they fix it in the off season. If they don’t then their goals are not the same as most loyal fans. I will watch until this series is over. Can the Twins win three in a row? Of course they can. The odds are against them for sure but they won’t give up. I don’t believe a sweep though defines this team in any way. These players had nothing to do with past teams performances and I certainly don’t believe in childish curses. Win or lose the Twins will be back, they definitely have something to build on here. Fixing the pitching should obviously be the top priority and we will all be watching closely. I am not embarrassed by this team, they are relatively young and exceeded all expectations for this season. They have no realistic chance for a Championship this season and to say its World Series or bust this season just isn’t practical. But it’s never too late to catch lightning in a bottle! It’s baseball anything can happen. Win or lose though, I’m still a Twin’s supporter and a fan. Go Twins!

All fair points. But, just because these aren't the same players, doesn't mean they don't know the history and it's not in their heads.

 

The Yankees are the better team, but they aren't 18-6 better.

 

Just because the team surprised by getting here, doesn't make it unfair or unreasonable to expect them to win 1 game in a 5 game series.

Personally, I'll be pretty disappointed if they get swept yet again.

This team won 101 games, they shouldn't be happy just to be there.

[wsnydes]

It makes a difference because it would have allowed Odorizzi to start twice if needed.

Again, who starts games 4 and 5 now?

And this is the only reason to start Odorizzi in game 2, I agree. But then you simply wave the white flag in Game 3 with Dobnak? I'd have a problem with that too. So again, I don't think it really makes any difference. The problem is that he's got to start in the first place.

 

Maybe the offense scores more, maybe they don't. We don't know. Just like we don't know that Odo fares any better yesterday.

 

When you've got to make decisions with nothing but bad options, there's only so much that can be done.

[Mr. Brooks]

And this is the only reason to start Odorizzi in game 2, I agree. But then you simply wave the white flag in Game 3 with Dobnak? I'd have a problem with that too. So again, I don't think it really makes any difference. The problem is that he's got to start in the first place.

 

Maybe the offense scores more, maybe they don't. We don't know. Just like we don't know that Odo fares any better yesterday.

 

When you've got to make decisions with nothing but bad options, there's only so much that can be done.

If you win game 2, and have Berrios and Odorizzi available for 4 and 5, then you can afford to waive the white flag in game 3. It's not ideal, but at least you still have a path to victory.

They have no path to victory now.

 

You don't think it makes a difference whether Odorizzi or Dobnak starts twice? We'll never agree then.

 

Odorizzi isn't Cy Young, but he had a really good season.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

If you win game 2, and have Berrios and Odorizzi available for 4 and 5, then you can afford to waive the white flag in game 3. It's not ideal, but at least you still have a path to victory.

They have no path to victory now.

 

You don't think it makes a difference whether Odorizzi or Dobnak starts twice? We'll never agree then.

 

Odorizzi isn't Cy Young, but he had a really good season.

I think starting Odorizzi in the band box is a waste. Further, you need to win both home games, because it’s always long odds winning in NY.

 

They needed to win game 1, and Rocco managed to save the bullpen for game 2. I think that was a mistake. They were tied and left their best relievers on the bench

[LVTwinsfan]

All fair points. But, just because these aren't the same players, doesn't mean they don't know the history and it's not in their heads.

 

The Yankees are the better team, but they aren't 18-6 better.

 

Just because the team surprised by getting here, doesn't make it unfair or unreasonable to expect them to win 1 game in a 5 game series.

Personally, I'll be pretty disappointed if they get swept yet again.

This team won 101 games, they shouldn't be happy just to be there.

not at all suggesting they should be happy to be there. As much disappointment the fans feel, I’m pretty sure the players feel it much worse. But, they are only half a team without some quality starters. I think the last two games makes that crystal clear

[mickeymental]

one thing for sure: anibal sanchez won't be pitching to kurt suzuki for the twins on monday in minneapolis. sanchez gets the start today -- maybe with suzuki behind the plate -- as the nats try to take a 2-1 lead over the mighty dodgers. baseball is a funny game.

 

meanwhile, free brusdar!

[Mr. Brooks]

I think starting Odorizzi in the band box is a waste. Further, you need to win both home games, because it’s always long odds winning in NY.

 

They needed to win game 1, and Rocco managed to save the bullpen for game 2. I think that was a mistake. They were tied and left their best relievers on the bench

I completely agree on game 1.

[Mr. Brooks]

not at all suggesting they should be happy to be there. As much disappointment the fans feel, I’m pretty sure the players feel it much worse. But, they are only half a team without some quality starters. I think the last two games makes that crystal clear

Berrios and Odorizzi are quality starters.

Tanaka isn't any better than either of those two. The Twins have talent, they needed their talent to step up, not wilt under pressure, which they have.

[wsnydes]

If you win game 2, and have Berrios and Odorizzi available for 4 and 5, then you can afford to waive the white flag in game 3. It's not ideal, but at least you still have a path to victory.

They have no path to victory now.

 

You don't think it makes a difference whether Odorizzi or Dobnak starts twice? We'll never agree then.

 

Odorizzi isn't Cy Young, but he had a really good season.

I do think it makes a difference in who starts twice. But if you don't get to a game 5 it's irrelevant. And I have a much easier time accepting a game 2 loss by Dobnak than waving the white flag with him in game 3. The one thing we clearly agree on is that a loss is a given.

 

That's not something I'd be willing to tell my team or my fans going into a game 3.

[Otto von Ballpark]

You're probably right, but the team has a decent chance of winning the next 2 with Odorizzi and Berrios. They have zero chance in game 5 now though.

Berrios would be on short rest for game 4, right? Might still be our best option, but I'm not sure how confident I'd be.

 

If we could win games 3 and 4 (a big "if"), we'd have some major momentum going for game 5 at least, regardless of starter.

 

(None of this is meant to justify Dobnak in game 2, of course.)

[Mr. Brooks]

I do think it makes a difference in who starts twice. But if you don't get to a game 5 it's irrelevant. And I have a much easier time accepting a game 2 loss by Dobnak than waving the white flag with him in game 3. The one thing we clearly agree on is that a loss is a given.

 

That's not something I'd be willing to tell my team or my fans going into a game 3.

I don't understand this.

You can't go down 0-2. Why do you feel better accepting a loss in game 2 than you do in game 3?

[LVTwinsfan]

Berrios and Odorizzi are quality starters.

Tanaka isn't any better than either of those two. The Twins have talent, they needed their talent to step up, not wilt under pressure, which they have.

Berrios was not good in game 1 , his curve ball was a non issue, he threw way too many pitches which is why he had to be relieved early. If you actually believe that that performance should get your team a win then you really don’t get what it takes to win in the post season,