Front Page: Twins ALDS Game 2 Recap: Nothing Works, Twins Lose 12th Straight To Yankees

[Longdistancetwins]

 

The twins won’t advance until they can avoid the Yankees. Period.

It's what I've been saying, having seen too many Yankee-Twins games for so many regular seasons.  There's no reason these two teams have to be cosmically linked to forever meet in the playoffs.

[Mr. Brooks]

Berrios was not good in game 1 , his curve ball was a non issue, he threw way too many pitches which is why he had to be relieved early. If you actually believe that that performance should get your team a win then you really don’t get what it takes to win in the post season,

That's not at all what I said.

I was speaking of talent, not performance.

Berrios is a quality starter, but unlike Tanaka, he didn't step up when we needed him.

 

Aside from Dobnak, this series has been a tale of one team's talent stepping up, and one team's talent choking. I don't think the actual talent level is that different between these two teams.

[wsnydes]

I don't understand this.

You can't go down 0-2. Why do you feel better accepting a loss in game 2 than you do in game 3?

Because I don't like giving up. If I go and lose with my two best pitchers, then I'm screwed at that point. The floodgates are open. At least with Odo going in Game 3, there's hope for a stop. I'm also not altering my approach for the series because something went wrong. That smells of panic. Plus, with Dobnak going in game 2, I have to steal one game. If Odo goes in game 2, I have to steal both. As said elsewhere, they needed game 1. And they needed game 1 regardless of who starts game 2.

 

Odorizzi lives up in the zone, so his game doesn't play as well at Yankee stadium in the first place. I don't have a lot of faith that he fares any better. Dobnak only got tagged for 4 of those runs. Even if Odo goes 8 and gives up the same 4 runs, they still lose because the offense didn't get the job done either. I'm not suggesting that Dobnak pitched well, but they weren't winning that game by only scoring 2 runs. The offense had plenty of time to get back in the game and they didn't.

 

The real problem is that Dobnak has to start in the first place. Games can't really be sacrificed in a five game series. Having him start is reducing the margin for error by quite a bit.

Edited October 6, 2019 by wsnydes

[wsnydes]

That's not at all what I said.

I was speaking of talent, not performance.

Berrios is a quality starter, but unlike Tanaka, he didn't step up when we needed him.

 

Aside from Dobnak, this series has been a tale of one team's talent stepping up, and one team's talent choking. I don't think the actual talent level is that different between these two teams.

It is in the pitching department, but I think you were absolutely correct in an earlier post about it not being 18-6 different.

 

I do think experience plays into this as well. The Yankees have it, the Twins don't.

[USAFChief]

Yeah, the issue isnt which game Dobnak starts...the issue is that Dobnak starts.

[LaBombo]

 

Yeah, the issue isnt which game Dobnak starts...the issue is that Dobnak starts.

 

And whether ownership gets credit for the goal or the assist.

 

I'm somewhat disappointed with Rocco's Dobnak/Odo decision, but that doesn't diminish my overall impression that he had (yes, I'm using the past tense already) a very good rookie season.

 

If a higher payroll and the front office's use of it lead to stronger pitching, I think RB is a good bet to lead the Twins past their first round futility next season.

Edited October 6, 2019 by LaBombo

[Riverbrian]

 

 

 

If a higher payroll and the front office's use of it lead to stronger pitching, I think RB is a good bet to lead the Twins past their first round futility next season.

 

I agree but they have to take my phone calls and listen. 

[bird]

 

That's not at all what I said.
I was speaking of talent, not performance.
Berrios is a quality starter, but unlike Tanaka, he didn't step up when we needed him.

Aside from Dobnak, this series has been a tale of one team's talent stepping up, and one team's talent choking. I don't think the actual talent level is that different between these two teams.

I think we've seen both better talent and better performance.

 

I'm not so sure most managers wouldn't be more confident about winning with any of Paxton, Tanaka, or Severino as their starter as opposed to Berrios. No pitchfork here, but once again, the importance of true front line starters is evident.

 

I also think there's still a fairly decided talent advantage for NYY over the Twins, in virtually every phase of the game: rotation, bullpen, lineup, the edge home field offers, postseason experience, on-field game management. The whole nine yards. Again, no pitchfork at the ready here. Frankly, this team got there a year early IMO.

 

I'm not terribly upset by what's happened, just a bit disappointed that so many players, for whatever reason, have so far failed to step up. Our inconsistent Berrios failed to locate his breaking pitch. Dobnak threw it wide over and over and fell behind all-star hitters. Paxton spiked ball four in front of the plate and got guys like Cron to strike out instead of walk to first. Tanaka hit the corners and our pitchers did not. 

 

But from my vantage point, even if our hitters take good, smart at bats and our pitchers attack the zone with better command and control and quality pitches that lives up to their best, the Yankees have a decided edge. They're simply a better team right now, even though the talent gap has closed.

 

 

They've been a much better team each and every time the two teams have played for 15 years. That's the reason they've beaten the Twins, with an assist provide by the home field. I don't buy into there being some mystique.

[insagt1]

After watching the Yankees dismantle us in every aspect of the game, twice, I no longer feel bad. If we had lost two heartbreakers that showed that we can compete with them, I'd be feeling REALLY bad. But the pressure is off now. We are playing with house money and have absolutely nothing to lose....because there is no way we take 3 straight from the Yankees.

 

While our guys from the pitchers to everyone else underperformed, worse than they have in many weeks, all of  the Yankees did their job very methodically and made us look very bad. They play like they have been there before.

 

I wanted to reach thru my TV and wipe that silly smirk off Rosarios's face in the 9th after he waved stupidly at two pitches over his head. He wasn't even trying. If we had someone else to take his place, he would be on the pines Monday.

 

14 k's...led by 4 horrible AB's by Sano. Did anyone keep track of how many of our guys struck out on 3-2 pitches both games? I don't think we got one single baserunner with the full count.

 

Kepler clearly can't bat. He barely swings the bat. He really shouldn't be playing. Arraez, to his credit, came off the deck and got two hits in his final AB's. He too is very hurt but gave it a much better effort than Kepler.

 

When it counted, every one of our pitchers failed. Our hitters demonstrated no plate discipline. They are not in the same league with the Yankees, in post season.

 

If they manage to steal one Monday, I will give them credit for not totally throwing in the towel, like they did last night. They have no pressure on them at all, because at this point even non-baseball fans know they are done. Should we as fans be criticized for pretty much giving up? No, because after those two ugly losses, I think the Twins already have.

 

While everyone failed last night (not counting the relievers who basically were in there after the Yankees knew the game was over) Rosario was for me, the biggest disgrace. He and Puig need to be put in a room and read the riot act on how this game has to be played....no matter what the score.

 

Finally, if the Twins ever DID win the next three, I would rate it as one of the biggest upsets in MLB history.

[LaBombo]

 

I agree but they have to take my phone calls and listen. 

 

It's the dang twitter, I tells ya... makin' me think 'say it in the fewest possible characters'. Are you okay with being 'Rb' instead of 'RB'?

[tarheeltwinsfan]

 

Dobnak and the rest of the guys can say that they didn't have nerves these last 2 games, but I don't believe them in the slightest. Especially the guys that haven't been in a postseason atmosphere before. I 100% believe this is psychological, and the Twins just don't have enough guys on their roster that are mentally tough enough to deal with the pressure right now in order to win. Twins NEED to bring in at least 1 starter and a couple more relievers in the offseason that have had big time postseason pressure put on them before. 

I talked to a friend of mine who played in the World Series. He said his heart was about to pound  out of his chest the first time Tom Kelly told him he was going in to bat in a World Series game. The Yankee post-season crowd was unlike any other crowd which the Twins had experienced this year. The Twins got the "yips".

[Riverbrian]

First off... This ain't over yet. If they win Monday... they play Tuesday... If they win Tuesday... They play Thursday. 

 

13 separate times the Twins have won three games in a row this year. 

 

Lots of talk about a difference in talent. The Yankees won 103 games, the Twins won 101 games. Whatever difference in talent you are all talking about, it amounted to 2 extra wins over the course of 162 games. 

 

Coming back from an 0-2 deficit in a DS has happened before. The Yankees came back against the Indians from 0-2 in 2017. 

 

2015...  The Jays came back from 0-2 against the Rangers... That was the Bautista Bat Flip series. 

 

2012... The Giants almost didn't win one of their World Series because the Reds had them pinned 0-2. 2nd loss of that series for the Giants was a blow out, bigger than what we just experienced. The Reds made a big statement in game two and they made that statement in San Francisco. The Giants had to win 3 in a row in Cincinnati and they did. 

 

Losing the first two games sucks... It eliminates all margin of error and puts our backs firmly against the wall and it decreases our odds of advancing to horrible levels but... what happened yesterday was yesterday.

 

 

You put the uniform on and make some plays. 

 

[Riverbrian]

 

It's the dang twitter, I tells ya... makin' me think 'say it in the fewest possible characters'. Are you okay with being 'Rb' instead of 'RB'?

 

Nope... I get the Capital Letters. 

 

I've been RB in Twins Territory longer than he has. 

[Monticore]

Baldelli' pollyannish look on the bright side approach got to be cloying. At the postgame press conference, he looked lost and pitiless, like an innocent after a slaughter.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Anyway, Monday is another day and hopefully, tv permitting, another game...it is available on FS1, isn't it?

 

Yes, Monday's Twins game will be on FS1. (The only other MLB Network game this postseason is Monday's Astros-Rays game.)

[Otto von Ballpark]

I was listening to Baseball tonite after work and the Yankees can be so proud of their fans chanting Uber at Randy Dobnak. Kinda like someone still calling you Fat A$$ after you lost 100 lbs.

I don't think those pejoratives are remotely comparable. I am sure Yankee fans have said bad things to players, but "Uber" is not one of them.

[Riverbrian]

I am over the moon happy with Baldelli and I am over the moon happy with Falvey and Lavine BUT...

 

IF ...after two games of do or die playoff baseball. No matter if those games produced wins or losses. 

 

IF... you have stats that look like this. 

 

Stashak 2 Games 1.2 innings

Romo 1 game 0.2 innings

May 1 Game 0.1 innings

Rogers 0 games 0 innings

 

You have a first time manager and a fairly young front office making a significant mistake. 

 

The Twins are the only team in the playoffs utilizing the back end of their bullpen before they utilize the front end of the bullpen. 

 

I'm not saying the results would have been different but when they turned to Stashak with a one run deficit in game one, and did so with all of Romo, May and Rogers available or even letting Duffey throw another inning. They didn't take into account the stark difference between Game one of the ALDS and Game 95 of the regular season. 

 

The only thing I can think of... is that they tried to keep the bullpen fresh in anticipation of game two with Dobnak starting. So they tried to wing and a prayer through game one. Which was still close!  Just to focus on game two instead.  

 

Just a constructive criticism. THROW YOUR BEST ARMS... RIGHT NOW... Don't save them for tomorrow. There may not be a tomorrow as you just learned. Would you rather throw Romo and May with a 1 run deficit or a 7 run deficit.

 

Your save them for tomorrow plan just plain disappeared on you. So you end up choosing Stashak in a one run deficit and Romo and May in a 7 run deficit. 

 

 

[insagt1]

last time Twins beat the Yanks 3 straight was back in the 90's (maybe even the late 80's can't remember for sure) according to the guys on FS1. Probably true. Winning 3 straight in the playoffs is a bit harder than doing it in regular season. Yes, it has been done before...but its a very small number compared to all the series that have been played. There are odds, but they are small.

 

Best I can say is that there is no pressure on them now. They should just go out and play the game. Two things though....the pitchers can't walk so many and our hitters, my goodness, have to stop striking out wildly and often. We are seeing them at the very worst right now. And move Rosario down to 8th or 9th in the lineup. Hate his attitude (what he is letting us see)

[Vanimal46]

I am over the moon happy with Baldelli and I am over the moon happy with Falvey and Lavine BUT...

 

IF ...after two games of do or die playoff baseball. No matter if those games produced wins or losses.

 

IF... you have stats that look like this.

 

Stashak 2 Games 1.2 innings

Romo 1 game 0.2 innings

May 1 Game 0.1 innings

Rogers 0 games 0 innings

 

You have a first time manager and a fairly young front office making a significant mistake.

 

The Twins are the only team in the playoffs utilizing the back end of their bullpen before they utilize the front end of the bullpen.

 

I'm not saying the results would have been different but when they turned to Stashak with a one run deficit in game one, and did so with all of Romo, May and Rogers available or even letting Duffey throw another inning. They didn't take into account the stark difference between Game one of the ALDS and Game 95 of the regular season.

 

The only thing I can think of... is that they tried to keep the bullpen fresh in anticipation of game two with Dobnak starting. So they tried to wing and a prayer through game one. Which was still close! Just to focus on game two instead.

 

Just a constructive criticism. THROW YOUR BEST ARMS... RIGHT NOW... Don't save them for tomorrow. There may not be a tomorrow as you just learned. Would you rather throw Romo and May with a 1 run deficit or a 7 run deficit.

 

Your save them for tomorrow plan just plain disappeared on you. So you end up choosing Stashak in a one run deficit and Romo and May in a 7 run deficit.

Concur. I wish they would have set the tone better in game 1. That should have been mission critical to win. Stashak was a head scratcher in a 1 run game. Putting in a depleted Gibson waived the white flag.

 

You can't prepare for the next day in the playoffs because there may not be a next day!

[Mike Sixel]

Twins have no great starters. They had a six percent chance when Gibson came in. That made sense to me. The rest? We can second guess, but there aren't many good choices if you eliminate all but three RPs.....

[Mr. Brooks]

I think we've seen both better talent and better performance.

 

I'm not so sure most managers wouldn't be more confident about winning with any of Paxton, Tanaka, or Severino as their starter as opposed to Berrios. No pitchfork here, but once again, the importance of true front line starters is evident.

 

I also think there's still a fairly decided talent advantage for NYY over the Twins, in virtually every phase of the game: rotation, bullpen, lineup, the edge home field offers, postseason experience, on-field game management. The whole nine yards. Again, no pitchfork at the ready here. Frankly, this team got there a year early IMO.

 

I'm not terribly upset by what's happened, just a bit disappointed that so many players, for whatever reason, have so far failed to step up. Our inconsistent Berrios failed to locate his breaking pitch. Dobnak threw it wide over and over and fell behind all-star hitters. Paxton spiked ball four in front of the plate and got guys like Cron to strike out instead of walk to first. Tanaka hit the corners and our pitchers did not.

 

But from my vantage point, even if our hitters take good, smart at bats and our pitchers attack the zone with better command and control and quality pitches that lives up to their best, the Yankees have a decided edge. They're simply a better team right now, even though the talent gap has closed.

 

 

They've been a much better team each and every time the two teams have played for 15 years. That's the reason they've beaten the Twins, with an assist provide by the home field. I don't buy into there being some mystique.

The better team shouldn't win every single game though.

If that were true, the best team in baseball would go 162-0 every year.

[Mr. Brooks]

Twins have no great starters. They had a six percent chance when Gibson came in. That made sense to me. The rest? We can second guess, but there aren't many good choices if you eliminate all but three RPs.....

I'll take my chances with 6% every single time over whatever chance we had with Randy Dobnak starting a game in Yankee Stadium.

It also sends a message to your players that we don't waive the white flag just because we're down a few runs.

 

Baldelli setting the example of throwing in the towel in game 1 might have had something to do with the Twins hitters following suit after being down 8 early in game 2.

[Bandit34]

 

Bingo. Every baseball fan outside of New York City has been pulling for the Twins to be this year's story.

 

This was the equivalent to the dreaded 5 seed vs. 12 seed matchup in the NCAA tournament. Everyone - not just Twins fans - wanted to see Minnesota stick it to the Yankees. This was the upset everyone wanted to see happen. Even New York media outlets were saying this would be a knock-down, drag-out series.

 

The Twins have disappointed their own fans terribly. They've also drawn facepalms and eye rolls from baseball fans all over the country.

 

This has truly been an embarrassment on a national stage. If the Twins get swept, they should be ashamed of themselves and rightfully so.

Absolutely. In a real sense, this series has been a bit of an embarrassment to Major League Baseball. MLB really could have used a wild series between these two teams. I personally think they were counting on it. This was a dream series for MLB and we royally messed it up. And I think true fans of the game have a right to feel a bit cheated about it. I know Thomas looked upset. 

[D.C Twins]

 

First off... This ain't over yet. If they win Monday... they play Tuesday... If they win Tuesday... They play Thursday. 

 

13 separate times the Twins have won three games in a row this year. 

 

Lots of talk about a difference in talent. The Yankees won 103 games, the Twins won 101 games. Whatever difference in talent you are all talking about, it amounted to 2 extra wins over the course of 162 games. 

 

Coming back from an 0-2 deficit in a DS has happened before. The Yankees came back against the Indians from 0-2 in 2017. 

 

2015...  The Jays came back from 0-2 against the Rangers... That was the Bautista Bat Flip series. 

 

2012... The Giants almost didn't win one of their World Series because the Reds had them pinned 0-2. 2nd loss of that series for the Giants was a blow out, bigger than what we just experienced. The Reds made a big statement in game two and they made that statement in San Francisco. The Giants had to win 3 in a row in Cincinnati and they did. 

 

Losing the first two games sucks... It eliminates all margin of error and puts our backs firmly against the wall and it decreases our odds of advancing to horrible levels but... what happened yesterday was yesterday.

 

 

You put the uniform on and make some plays. 

These are good thought in theory, but it matters how games are lost. The Twins are being overwhelmed in every aspect of the game....and I wouldn't count on the Yankees suddenly losing focus in the playoffs.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Sounds to me like there is a “Twins never had a chance” strain of revisionist thinking going on—that I strongly disagree with.

 

If the Yankees were that superior to the 101-win Twins this year, then how many wins should the Twins shoot for next season to be on their level?

 

No way the Twins should have been swept this year. No way.

 

By the way, I went back to 2002 and calculated the Yankees postseason Win-Loss record and Win% since then. Anyone care to guess what that is?

[Danchat]

 

Sounds to me like there is a “Twins never had a chance” strain of revisionist thinking going on—that I strongly disagree with.

If the Yankees were that superior to the 101-win Twins this year, then how many wins should the Twins shoot for next season to be on their level?

No way the Twins should have been swept this year. No way.

By the way, I went back to 2002 and calculated the Yankees postseason Win-Loss record and Win% since then. Anyone care to guess what that is?

I'd like to see the Twins rack up some wins on teams above .500, the total win count isn't quite as important since there's so many teams in the AL that are hoisting the white flag. The only two teams that the Twins had an above .500 record against that were quality opponents were Tampa Bay and Houston... which was ironically the other two teams in the playoffs.

[bird]

 

The better team shouldn't win every single game though.
If that were true, the best team in baseball would go 162-0 every year.

 

 

True. 

[Halsey Hall]

I turned it off when they gave up the 7 spot the other night, and am almost afraid to watch tomorrow night, this is embarrassing.

[David HK]

Welp....

 

You'd think this year, the script would change, or at least turn a page.

 

Nope. Yet another round of pathetic roll-over-for-the-mighty-Yanks. I can't think of a more appropriate adjective. This is just pathetic.

 

I'm not going to go on a litany, those aspects of mis-management and guys taking a giant step back under the hot lights have already been well-discussed. But count me as one more long-time fan whose head is exploding at Rocco's head-scratching decisions.

 

I'll only go this far: for Dog's sake, Jake O pitched for Tampa. He's been in tight division games in The Stadium countless times. Instead, we get a good story about the Uber-pitcher, and horrid results. Then, of course, to the rescue rides the same guy who struggled to put guys away THE DAY BEFORE. Wha.....?!?!? And we act as though it's a meaningless early-season warm-up series.

 

I gotta say, my impression of Dobnak's outing:

 

[Riverbrian]

 

These are good thought in theory, but it matters how games are lost. The Twins are being overwhelmed in every aspect of the game....and I wouldn't count on the Yankees suddenly losing focus in the playoffs.

 

Not really... What really matters is that all margin of error is now gone. They can't suffer a bloop hit now. 

 

The Reds destroyed, dismantled and out everything'd the Giants in San Francisco in 2012. 

 

The Giants survived it... this can happen again. The odds are against it because all margin of error is now gone... but, It will be a fresh set of zeroes tonight on the scoreboard and what happened on Saturday was yesterday. 

 

Win tonight, You play again on Tuesday... Win Tuesday... You play on again on Friday.

 

It's been done before.