Front Page: Twins ALDS Game 1 Recap: Bad Defense, Questionable Management Leads to Loss

[Battle ur tail off]

 

The Yankees swung through Berrios' low pitches in the first inning and then laid off them the rest of his outing. He only threw his offspeed stuff low and well out of the zone and lived off his fastball.

 

He didn't adjust. Combined with the defensive errors, that's what lost the game.

 

I agree his breaking stuff was too far out of the zone to be competitive, but he pitched alright. He only gave up 1 earned run. He should have been out there for another inning as well, possibly 2. 

 

5-6 IP, 1ER, like 8 Ks. If he had been left to do his thing. I'll take that every single day in a playoff game on the road in Yankee stadium. 

[Puckett34]

Well, that happened. Decent enough start, kind of got away from them at the end.

 

I'd assume Dobnak is going tonight and I assume that Smeltzer will piggyback on tonight as well. I'm guessing that Odorizzi would be going tonight had they won Game 1. Don't want a bullpen game in a potential 0-2 hole 

[Ebby Calvin Laloosh]

It sure felt like Rocco threw in the towel when he put Gibson in. I immediately thought he had given up on the game and was just trying to eat innings. Has he been watching Gibson lately? Being down three runs in game 1 of a 5 game series with this lineup, I'm not sure I get it. Didn't we have another minor league pitcher on our playoff roster that could have given up those runs?

[jorgenswest]

Every game is going to be a bullpen game in this series. The Yankees bats are too good and too disciplined. Add in below to well below average defenders at every position around the infield and pitch counts exceed 20 per inning.

[ashbury]

Rocco deserves Manager Of The Year consideration for bringing this pitching staff to 101 wins. His strategies worked in the regular season, shielding the weak spots except against weak opposition, when the strong opposition also is feeling their way through to an extent, but in the post-season he just doesn't have the horses to compete.

 

That's my takeaway from the game. In an era when no one pitches complete games, you have to keep bringing in new arms, and with this staff it's Russian roulette - eventually you reach a chamber with a projectile and propellant, and we have several loaded chambers among our 12.

[Battle ur tail off]

 

Twins were just hoping to steal one last night, in my opinion. They played it safe with Berrios, he'll be rested by Game 4 if we need him then. By the time Litell and Stashak faltered, the Twins threw in the towel and let Gibby take more damage.

 

Last night's game didn't matter to the Twins as much as it did the Yankees. Tonight's game will have a much different feel from a managerial perspective, I think. It's gonna be Romo, Rogers, in tight spots, no matter what part of the game the Twins are in.

 

Remember, Yanks burned some bullpen arms too last night.

 

You don't play it safe once you get to the playoffs. The past has shown the team that wins game 1 in a 5 game series wins, it, like 75% of the time. Rocco did a poor job last night. I put this loss on him as much as anyone. 

 

At some point you have to realize there are guys that do just fine during the regular season against poor teams in a rotten division, and then there are guys that have real "stuff" and moxie you need to ride when it gets down to brass tacks. I will be extremely disappointed if May, Rogers, and Romo aren't used tonight. I don't care if it is the 4th inning, if a big moment comes up, don't wait, bring in your studs to close the door. 

[djvang]

Gibson looks scared to death out there.

[Battle ur tail off]

 

Naming Dobnak the starter Rocco is planning a full bull pen approach today. Kind of explains the bull pen choices last night.

 

But why forfeit a game 1? Silly. Very, very silly. Game 1 is the most important by a long shot. Go all in each game. If towards the end of the series your bullpen is tired, well then you might have to turn to some of those guys. Use and abuse up until then though. There is nothing to save these guys for. 

[denarded]

There is nothing to save these guys for

Absolutely. The end that we rested and rotated for is NOW. Managing in NYC in October NEEDS to be different than Detroit in August

[Battle ur tail off]

 

THis wasn't about defense or "questionable managerial decisions"

 

Personally, I am looking to field the best possible lineup in that stadium against this team.  If Arraez was good to go (even if not 100%) I put him in there as well.  Much too much complaining about Rocco's "questionable decisions" as far as I am concerned.  This team managed to win 101 games in spite of Baldelli's stupidity?

 

No.  This is about the Twins bats as much as it is anything else.  We have now lost 14 post season games in a row and over those 14 games we have scored 43 runs.  Sorry, not good enough.

 

And you are dead on with regards to Berrios.  He does braindead sometimes and last night was a perfect example of it. He got yanked after 4 innings of ineffective work and got bro-hugged in the dugout for it.  That to me is a big issue.

 

Seems to me this team feels like it accomplished enough to put its tail between its legs and get swept again while the fans blame it on small payroll, east coast bias and Bob Costas not loving us enough.

Enough already.  This isn't about "having fun" right now.  It is about being a pro and being able to look at yourself in the mirror when this is all said and done.  That was a weak effort all around last night and in no way can we chalk it up to "poor defense" or "questionable managerial decisions"

 

Please.  It runs way WAY deeper than that

 

 

Twins hit 3 HRs in the first game of a playoff series. That should get it done if the rest of your lineup gets on base. I agree with you. Lots of bad swings at pitches out of the zone and too many strikeouts. They were caught up in it, you could see that. 

 

 

 

[mrtwinsfan]

Baldelli said after the game that he'll probably have to use some of his eighth and ninth inning guys earlier tomorrow if needed. "We don't generally commit to anything early, but I think there's a chance that we end up running some of our guys that have pitched very late in the game. We could run them out there, probably still reasonably late in the game, but maybe push them up a little bit. Again, with the five innings we're going to cover out of the bullpen tonight, we could have seen -- we could have ended up seeing something like that. So that is definitely possible."  3-3 GAME WHY DOES ROCCO USE HIS 6TH AND LOWER BEST ARMS OUT OF THE PEN - LITTEL - STASHAK,  SEE HOW THE YANKS HANDLED IT- LIKE IT SHOULD OF BEEN DONE,   pLANS change Rocco,

[jorgenswest]

I think you manage the first two games like you manage a double header particularly to start the series when winning one game on the road is huge.

 

Rogers, May and Romo have a better chance of being at the top of their game today. We can’t beat the Yankees if they are not at the top of their games. Everything resets with the day off so burn the bullpen today.

[ANDwon]

Can't get playoff experience without playing in the playoffs.

[Longdistancetwins]

 

Ugh. Everyone can talk about how this team has nothing to do with the other Twins teams that lost before. But they are absolutely linked. The Twins' players hear about the franchise's playoff losing streak and long run of failure and it burrows into their subconscious and affects performance. In the same way most players that join the Yankees hear about all the Yankee success and winning and it boosts their confidence and they play better there than they did for any other team. Success breeds success. It's all in the mental game and the Twins have to figure out how to avoid turning into jelly-legged, terrified, star-struck imitations of the Bad News Bears. The Twins' baseball talent is every bit as good as the Yankees but the mental game is 180 degrees apart. 

 

 

I agree.  Yeah, I'm here in New York, so I can't separate out this decades-long incompetence against the Yankees.  I do believe we will advance in the playoffs one of these years, but it is going to be by NOT getting the Yankees in the draw.  That's been part of the curse.  Sorry for the pessimism...  

[twinsnorth49]

Not usually one to second guess and point the finger at Rocco, but I largely will this time. The players play and need to step up and do what is expected of them, but the wrong players were in the wrong situations last night. Rocco needs to be smarter. 

[Dantes929]

After his first game back in May Littell has been fantastic all year long.   I had no problem bringing him in.    Down 7-4 I would question Gibson coming in but once it went to 10-4 he should have just left him in to finish the game and save Graterol.    That is really my only complaint on game management.   Yankees brought in all their guys.   I hope it comes back to haunt them tonight..   Berrios was not going to last much longer with just his fastball.    I don''t know that the Yankees pitching was so much better aside from Littell not having anything   Their at bats were better and their defense was better.    We showed great patience until the count was 3-2 and then swung at anything.    Yankees took walks.    They made diving catches.  Aside from Sano;'s great play in the 1st we didn't make the plays.    The loss will just make winning the series that much sweeter.   If we lose tonight it will just make winning the series that much sweeter.   

[Mike Sixel]

Putting Stashak on the mound in a 1 run game was a massive mistake with an outcome that was not hard to predict. Following up Gibson all but guaranteed the loss. Baldelli's post season management resume is not off to a promising start.

Based on what? Stashak was effective this year...

 

The Twins can't only pitch their top two two to three RPs all series.

[ashbury]

The loss will just make winning the series that much sweeter.   If we lose tonight it will just make winning the series that much sweeter.   

Sweetest of all, then, would be becoming the first team to come back from an 0-3 deficit to win a five-game series.

[Mike Sixel]

I can't believe everyone calling for the best RPs to pitch every inning.... They've shown to be it's effective on back to back games. It's not realistic to ask them to do so.

 

People wanted, what, more than four innings from their best RPs, and then the same again today?

[Mike Sixel]

And that's borderline malpractice, IMO.

In a best of 5 series, the game 1 winner wins the series 73% of the time. The game should have mattered just as much to the Twins.

It did. The poster you are quoting is just wrong.

[ashbury]

I can't believe everyone calling for the best RPs to pitch every inning

Good straw man.

 

Mid-game, I saw that as a winnable game. It's no longer "the long season", and you don't know what tomorrow may bring. You could be ahead 8-0 in the fifth inning of the next game, or you could be behind 8-0 - but in the moment, not tomorrow but today, it was 3-3. Go for it, and let tomorrow take care of itself.

[Linus]

To me the story was Berrios. He is our #1 guy and he came out and pitched scared. I thought Gibson was out there for a while. For us to win the series we need Berrios to be a commanding presence and he was not last night

[lukeduke1980]

 

Can't get playoff experience without playing in the playoffs.

And thus begins the silver lining of this year's playoff exit.  Our young players all get a taste, and next year they'll be ready.  And therefore we don't need to improve the pitching staff in the offseason.

[ashbury]

To me the story was Berrios. He is our #1 guy and he came out and pitched scared.

I don't like to try to mind-read players. But I did think Jose's face looked, for lack of a better word, pale. I found myself wondering if he had been throwing up, pre-game. That can happen to anyone. I just... wondered.

 

This is the worst of baseless speculation. But, well, I'm saying it, because, Internet.

[DannySD]

The pitchers were scared to throw strikes and still the Yankees first 5 runs all came on balls that bounced off our infielders gloves. We can win the series, just need to settle down. And let's face it, we knew Berrios would be our worst starter this series. 

[howeda7]

 

The series isnt over, but as has been true in the past, the Twins appear built to compete in the ALCentral.

The Yankees are built to win the WS.

We're starting Randy Dobnak in game 2 of the NLDS. Littell and Stashak asked to pitch in Yankee Stadium. Compare that to the other team.

The front office told us this wasn't our year when the refused to part with any of their top 15 prospects at the trade deadline. So instead of starting Mike Minor today, it's Randy Dobnak. 

[wabene]

What a bummer but hey we don't have to wait too long for the next tilt. If Dobnak accomplishes the unaccomplishable how sweet would that be?

A couple of points. One why is Schoop on the playoff roster if your not starting him against a lefty? Injury insurance for Arraez? We could all see that Luis is not 100% so even more reason to start Schoop and give him one more day to heal. Schoop would have made those plays.

There are many other second guesses but what's the point?

Moving forward here is a quote from Littel; “I didn’t trust my stuff,” Littell said. “It’s a good lineup, and they took good pitches. It made me think I had to make perfect pitches.” we all knew this going in. The perfect pitch mindset does not work. Fire away, you either love by the sword or die by it.

 

Was going to edit this but yo I'm just going to trust my stuff.

[Mike Sixel]

Good straw man.

 

Mid-game, I saw that as a winnable game. It's no longer "the long season", and you don't know what tomorrow may bring. You could be ahead 8-0 in the fifth inning of the next game, or you could be behind 8-0 - but in the moment, not tomorrow but today, it was 3-3. Go for it, and let tomorrow take care of itself.

Most of the people in this thread are clearly saying that the best RPs should pitch yesterday, today, and the next game.

 

I'm not convinced that will work. I'm also not sure who those two or three are, and how many outs they can get in a game.... It was the fifth inning. If they can't trust Littel, or stashak, who should come in in the fifth? Not Berrios, not Gibson, not Dobnak, not Romo, I'm guessing people would rip it being Gaterol if they don't think rookies should be in. And then, who comes in the sixth, if not any of those players? This is the roster. We can question the roster, but that's not on Rocco. He can only use the guys he has.

 

They needed more than four innings of outs, what would everyone have done instead, inning by inning.....

[Mr. Brooks]

It did. The poster you are quoting is just wrong.

I don't agree.

Putting Gibson into a still winnable game was waiving the white flag.

[Mr. Brooks]

Most of the people in this thread are clearly saying that the best RPs should pitch yesterday, today, and the next game.

 

I'm not convinced that will work. I'm also not sure who those two or three are, and how many outs they can get in a game.... It was the fifth inning. If they can't trust Littel, or stashak, who should come in in the fifth? Not Berrios, not Gibson, not Dobnak, not Romo, I'm guessing people would rip it being Gaterol if they don't think rookies should be in. And then, who comes in the sixth, if not any of those players? This is the roster. We can question the roster, but that's not on Rocco. He can only use the guys he has.

 

They needed more than four innings of outs, what would everyone have done instead, inning by inning.....

Why not Berrios in the 5th? He was only at 88 pitches and had just cruised through the 4th. I get he was a little sloppy through 3, but perhaps he had made adjustments in the 4th?