Front Page: REPORT: Twins Investigating Giants Over Sam Dyson Trade

[ashbury]

The Twins should ask for Kai-Wei Teng back.  

And they will be turned down.

 

Short of malfeasance by the Giants being uncovered, such a transaction would open a huge can of worms for the league going forward.

 

Players go to a new team under what I once heard (regarding a used car I bought) called a Texas Guarantee : if Dyson breaks in half after the transaction is complete, we get to keep both pieces.

[wabene]

Carol, to address some of your concerns, I clarified in the story what we know about the Twins investigation into this matter. I think it's worth pointing out though, that there is nothing in Neal's story that suggests the Twins are moving on. Maybe they are. But all that is being reported is that they have investigated and not found anything yet.

 

Nice, now the cat is out of the bag, or the Squirrel as it were.

[Puckett34]

 

If I'm the Twins, I'm discussing this with the League Office. If Rocco can detect that Odo is warming up a little weird and pulls him for precautionary reasons, how is it the Giants staff didn't have any idea Dyson was pitching for weeks with discomfort? I'm not buying it. I want compensation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HX0fIi3H-es

[KirbyDome89]

 

This is all so silly. We *know* players play through things all the time without telling their teams. It drives us nuts sometimes when we hear about it after they struggle (although sometimes I suspect it's used as an excuse in those cases, rather than being a direct cause).

 

It seems especially likely that players might withhold a condition when it appears to have no impact on performance. Dyson said it first started bothering him after the all-star break in Colorado. His stats with the Giants, beginning with that Colorado series right up to the trade:

 

7 G, 7 IP, 2 H, 0 R, 1 BB, 7 K

 

How many MLB players would report a condition if those are the results they are getting while playing through it?

 

And what incentive would Dyson have to lie to cover for the Giants, then or now? Some of these accusations make zero sense.

 

I blame this on them pitching him immediately after getting off the plane following the trade....

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I blame this on them pitching him immediately after getting off the plane following the trade....

The Giants have launched a counter-investigation in which they will no doubt look at those flight logs for any records of turbulence.

 

In response, the Twins should interview the flight attendants and ask if Dyson disclosed any discomfort to them during the flight.

 

In the meantime, the two organizations should split custody of Jaylin Davis.

 

We'll get to the bottom of this yet!

[ashbury]

In the meantime, the two organizations should split custody of Jaylin Davis.

"Your Honor, the Twins hazed me and physically abused me when I was with them. I want to go to the Giants. They don't beat anybody."

[Number3]

 

Yes. Something is rotten here. Is it just Dyson? I mean, why wouldn't he bring it up? Did he just want to get out of San Fran for some reason? Something is fishy, if not rotten. Rotting fish, maybe.

What was fishy was the way he was inserted into a game almost immediately after traveling across the country straight to the park where the Twins were playing into a possible game deciding situation. I think his uniform name was done with a magic marker, That was a disaster and he has never really recovered.

[yarnivek1972]

What was fishy was the way he was inserted into a game almost immediately after traveling across the country straight to the park where the Twins were playing into a possible game deciding situation. I think his uniform name was done with a magic marker, That was a disaster and he has never really recovered.

Yeah, that CAUSED his shoulder injury. Okay.

[Blake]

The Twins are doing what they should do, and look to see if anything was wrong on the Giants side of the trade.

 

If the shoe were on the other foot, and the Giants had been on the receiving end, they would be doing the same.

 

It would be negligent on the part of all parties involved not to make sure everything was done in the proper manner.

[insagt1]

Making light of this is also sort of 'silly'. Saying that the Twins erred in pitching him right away as being the reason for his season ending is a real stretch, IMO. Asking for a prospect back is equally as unrealistic. End of the day, it has turned out to be a bad trade...and they do happen. Twins received nothing, at least not this year. Somehow, internally a few of the guys really stepped up (Littell, May, Duffey). And Romo while being an adventure out there has not been 'awful'.

 

I agree with the above post. Everyone is doing their job, even if nothing comes of it.

 

I am from Rochester, so naturally I and a few 1000 others were very unhappy losing Davis. And it was compounded by Dyson ending up being worthless this season. But thats the way it goes sometimes. Time to concentrate on what we do have and how we are going to get past round one (assuming we get there of course!)

[Vanimal46]

Making light of this is also sort of 'silly'. Saying that the Twins erred in pitching him right away as being the reason for his season ending is a real stretch, IMO.

Have no fear, it's just a bit on TD. People were literally saying him pitching on the same day he took a 2.5 hour flight was the reason his debut was terrible. The takes were HAWT and STRONG that day.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

The Twins are doing what they should do, and look to see if anything was wrong on the Giants side of the trade.

 

If the shoe were on the other foot, and the Giants had been on the receiving end, they would be doing the same.

 

It would be negligent on the part of all parties involved not to make sure everything was done in the proper manner.

Sure, although the language in the original story here definitely seemed to go beyond that due diligence.

[SF Twins Fan]

Edited September 25, 2019 by SF Twins Fan

[Vanimal46]

https://twitter.com/MillerStrib/status/1176949208148000768?s=20

This will be the easiest non-tender decision in the off-season.

[yarnivek1972]

This will be the easiest non-tender decision in the off-season.

Dyson is currently on the active roster. Can the Twins legally non-tender an injured player?

[mlhouse]

 

And they will be turned down.

 

Short of malfeasance by the Giants being uncovered, such a transaction would open a huge can of worms for the league going forward.

 

Players go to a new team under what I once heard (regarding a used car I bought) called a Texas Guarantee : if Dyson breaks in half after the transaction is complete, we get to keep both pieces.

 

Sure, but I think there was some malfeasance on the Giants part.    And the Giants might think they will be found to have committed some malfeasance.

 

So, the Twins should negotiate a settlement and ask for Teng to be returned to our system.

[yarnivek1972]

Sure, but I think there was some malfeasance on the Giants part. And the Giants might think they will be found to have committed some malfeasance.

 

So, the Twins should negotiate a settlement and ask for Teng to be returned to our system.

If the Giants have reason to believe that they will be found to have committed malfeasance, they would be well advised to not make an offer that shows evidence of a guilty “conscience”. And if they are found guilty of malfeasance, returning one prospect will be the least of their concerns.

[Vanimal46]

Dyson is currently on the active roster. Can the Twins legally non-tender an injured player?

I would think so... Why do the Twins have to be on the hook for $6-8 million if he's out for the season?

[yarnivek1972]

I would think so... Why do the Twins have to be on the hook for $6-8 million if he's out for the season?

If they are, it would be the same reason teams are on the hook for a guy they signed to a contract if he gets hurt: it’s collectively bargained.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Dyson is currently on the active roster. Can the Twins legally non-tender an injured player?

Yes, they can. You can't option or outright a MLB player while they are injured during the season, but you can release them anytime and you can absolutely non-tender them in the offseason (it's fairly common to nontender a pitcher who just had surgery).

[Blake]

 

Sure, although the language in the original story here definitely seemed to go beyond that due diligence.

Initially, I had the same reaction, after all, Twins fan bias, but, after thinking for a bit, realized I needed to take a bit a see what develops. 

 

Sort of a metaphor for the entire Twins season.

[Mr. Brooks]

If they are, it would be the same reason teams are on the hook for a guy they signed to a contract if he gets hurt: it’s collectively bargained.

The league would be the worst negotiators in the history of economics if they did anything less than laugh hysterically at the proposition that teams be forced to sign an injured player to a contract (that's what tender means, in this context, "to tender a contract"), and theoretically be forced to do it 4 consecutive seasons to boot (if a Super 2 player were to suffer a career ending injury with 4 arbitration years remaining).

 

Of course they don't have to tender him a contract.

[Westcoast2]

The Twins may do something similar to Pineda, and extend him through 2021.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

The Twins may do something similar to Pineda, and extend him through 2021.

Doubtful. Starters generally have a more competitive market than relievers, which can necessitate a team commitment like Pineda's deal, and more importantly, shoulder surgery is very different from Tommy John surgery. It's much less predictable if and when Dyson will return to effective pitching.

 

Dyson will likely be looking at a minor league / incentive type contract for 2021.

[SomeGuy]

I think Dyson felt he could pitch through it and didn't tell anyone.

[amjgt]

 

Doubtful. Starters generally have a more competitive market than relievers, which can necessitate a team commitment like Pineda's deal, and more importantly, shoulder surgery is very different from Tommy John surgery. It's much less predictable if and when Dyson will return to effective pitching.

 

Dyson will likely be looking at a minor league / incentive type contract for 2021.

 

Could be... but where is the point where the Twins (or any other team) would deem it an acceptable risk.

 

I'm sure Dyson doesn't want to go an entire calendar year without getting paid.

 

Sign him to: 

2020 - $2M

2021 - $3M

 

That's probably a little more than is necessary, but that probably gets it done on Dyson's side. At that point you're competing against all 29 other teams, so a little overpay (if you want him) will likely be required. 

 

You might get Dyson toward the tail end of 2020 and you'd have him for 2021. If Dyson gets fixed, then $5M is worth it. If he's not fixed, then you're lighting $5M on fire.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Could be... but where is the point where the Twins (or any other team) would deem it an acceptable risk.

 

I'm sure Dyson doesn't want to go an entire calendar year without getting paid.

 

Sign him to: 

2020 - $2M

2021 - $3M

 

That's probably a little more than is necessary, but that probably gets it done on Dyson's side. At that point you're competing against all 29 other teams, so a little overpay (if you want him) will likely be required. 

 

You might get Dyson toward the tail end of 2020 and you'd have him for 2021. If Dyson gets fixed, then $5M is worth it. If he's not fixed, then you're lighting $5M on fire.

 

Dyson would take that in a heartbeat. But no team would do it. Dyson's hardly a guy teams outbid each other for, as it is (see his modest trade return for 1.5 years of control). Heck, just the 40-man roster spot this offseason alone is probably too much of a cost given the very uncertain outlook for a late 2020 return (which would mean one less prospect to protect from the Rule 5 draft this winter).

 

Dyson's made $14 mil in his career to date, so I expect he'll be fine without a paycheck for the next year.

[howeda7]

 

The Twins may do something similar to Pineda, and extend him through 2021.

I wouldn't do that for a reliever. And isn't his injury the type that is very hard to recover from?

[Westcoast2]

Having watched him for a couple of years in the Giant's system, I would guess that I have too high a personal opinion on his value.  Nevertheless, putting him on the 60 day IR list should eliminate the negative of having him on the 40-man.  You still can protect that one, extra Rule 5 eligible player.

 

[USAFChief]

 

Having watched him for a couple of years in the Giant's system, I would guess that I have too high a personal opinion on his value.  Nevertheless, putting him on the 60 day IR list should eliminate the negative of having him on the 40-man.  You still can protect that one, extra Rule 5 eligible player.

There's no injured list over the winter.