Is Cruz the best Twins FA signing ever?

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

  On 8/23/2019 at 6:35 PM, bighat said:

 A couple outliers there (ie: Lynn) and then you have guys like LeMahieu and Donaldson - who while having great years - their teams would maybe be OK without them.

Ah, so you're looking for more of a "contrarian sportswriter's MVP vote" take.

 

By bWAR, Corbin, Morton, and Fiers could each be the difference between their teams being in a playoff position vs 3-5 games out right now.

 

Even Donaldson, LeMahieu, and Brantley, again by WAR, could each be the difference between their teams being 6-8 games ahead vs only being up 2-3 games, which can be important. (Imagine if the Twins were still up by 6-8 games... hopefully again soon!)

 

I know, those teams probably wouldn't be trotting out zero WAR players in the absence of these signings, but the Twins probably wouldn't have a zero WAR DH this year without Cruz either! We can't give Cruz extra credit just because his predecessor was Logan Morrison.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

  On 8/22/2019 at 9:33 PM, USAFChief said:

lots of people predicted this team would be in contention.

But even if not, what was the potential mistake of adding Cruz?

Yup... glaring hole at a position of need. Add him... absolute worst is the team falls flat on its face and you trade him to a contender for prospects. On the other hand, if it doesn't... well you end up with the best offense in baseball. 

[Brandon]

 

  On 8/22/2019 at 12:47 AM, Sconnie said:

Does that put Chili Davis number 2?

 

  On 8/21/2019 at 3:37 AM, DiscGolfer said:

1  Morris

 

WS MVP flags fly forever

 

if Cruz helps win the WS I'll give it to him

 

Pagliarulo would be three by this logic.  

 

but Yeah Morris pitching a 10 inning shut out in game 7 of the World Series makes him #1.  not to mention his contract was the first one with a player option which is now popular to do.

 

Thome is way up there

 

[mlhouse]

 

  On 8/23/2019 at 4:21 PM, USAFChief said:

No. Our own season prediction thread poll here at TD had the most people predicting 86-90 wins. I hesitate to call them all "homers." Some pretty smart posters were included in that. Almost nobody had them below .500.

 

http://twinsdaily.com/topic/32597-poll-how-many-wins-this-year/?hl=poll

 

Most national publications had them as solidly in 2nd in the ALC, with several predicting the Twins to win the ALC (7 of 32 Fangraphs preseason predictors picked the Twins.) Bleacher Report had them at 87 wins. Ceasars had them at 84 wins on their preseason over/under wager list. Off the top of my head, Harold Reynolds at MLB Network picked the Twins to win the ALC. USAToday picked the Indians to win the ALC, but put the Twins as a darkhorse most likely to surprise. And that's just looking up a few, I'm sure there were more.

 

I don't think it was "idiotic" to predict the Twins had a very solid chance of contending in 2019. And further, IMO it's completely inaccurate to call the 2019 Twins "rebuilding." They're either "rebuilt," or it's time to tear down and start over. Virtually the entire farm system that they "rebuilt" with is up in the big leagues, and with at least a year or two of experience. Kepler, Sano, Buxton, Polanco, Berrios, Rosario, et al are not the players of a "rebuilding" team. They're the players you rebuilt with and now sink or swim with. 

 

Don't get me started on Pressly, but if the FO didn't think they'd contend, why Gonzalez? Cron? et al?

 

Signing Cruz was not only a great idea, but almost zero risk. Taking ABs from nobody, and if not in contention, a great July trade candidate. Cheap. too. You didn't have to predict a career year to think he'd be extremely valuable.

 

WHy Cron and GOnzales, you have to field a team and they were reluctant to completely rebuild with guys like Gordon and Rooker.

 

AS far as your above list of "non-rebuilding", please.  Sano and Buxton looked like he was done.  People were saying that as of a couple of weeks ago.  Kepler, Polanco, and Rosario were guys that looked like tehy had reached a career plateau.  Berrios looked like the next guy they would trade away in the future because they could no longer "afford" him.  

 

Cruz was a great signing because suddenly in the new baseball environment, the Twins turned it around.  I believe a lot of the credit has to go to Rocco.  If Paul Molitor is the manager of this team this season, Sano and Buxton have hardly played and if they did play, they sucked.  Even with the livlier baseballs, the team has half the home runs because the way Molitor and Gardenhire ran the team you don't play like that.   

[Don Walcott]

 

  On 8/23/2019 at 7:05 PM, diehardtwinsfan said:

Yup... glaring hole at a position of need. Add him... absolute worst is the team falls flat on its face and you trade him to a contender for prospects. On the other hand, if it doesn't... well you end up with the best offense in baseball. 

And this is a succinct explanation of why signing free agents is a good idea.

[bighat]

 

  On 8/23/2019 at 6:54 PM, spycake said:

Ah, so you're looking for more of a "contrarian sportswriter's MVP vote" take.

 

By bWAR, Corbin, Morton, and Fiers could each be the difference between their teams being in a playoff position vs 3-5 games out right now.

 

Even Donaldson, LeMahieu, and Brantley, again by WAR, could each be the difference between their teams being 6-8 games ahead vs only being up 2-3 games, which can be important. (Imagine if the Twins were still up by 6-8 games... hopefully again soon!)

 

I know, those teams probably wouldn't be trotting out zero WAR players in the absence of these signings, but the Twins probably wouldn't have a zero WAR DH this year without Cruz either! We can't give Cruz extra credit just because his predecessor was Logan Morrison.

 

Is bWAR the only measure of a player's talent, though? Is that all that counts? Are LeMahieu and Brantley bringing as much to the clubhouse as Cruz? Is Machado helping young guys along and providing stability on a successful team? I do think that stuff should count, at least a little bit....

 

Let's not talk about Logan Morrison - we need to wash out all these bad vibes before tonight's game!

[Otto von Ballpark]

  On 8/23/2019 at 9:00 PM, bighat said:

Is bWAR the only measure of a player's talent, though? Is that all that counts? Are LeMahieu and Brantley bringing as much to the clubhouse as Cruz? Is Machado helping young guys along and providing stability on a successful team? I do think that stuff should count, at least a little bit....

 

Sure. I was just using WAR as a back-of-the-napkin shortcut, to show there is some good competition for best FA signing of last offseason. It shows Cruz is in the conversation, although nothing clear-cut.

[DocBauer]

  On 8/22/2019 at 7:42 PM, FlauerPauer said:

What about Tony Batista, Phil Nevin, Tsyoshi Nishioka?

You'd better be careful. Language like that could get you suspended.

[bighat]

Terrible.

[ashbury]

  On 8/24/2019 at 1:56 AM, bighat said:

Terrible.

Which FA signing?

[bighat]

 

  On 8/24/2019 at 2:11 AM, ashbury said:

Which FA signing?

 

In my haste to communicate my disgust on the current game, I posted my thoughts here instead of the game thread. Apologies!

[USAFChief]

 

  On 8/24/2019 at 2:18 AM, bighat said:

In my haste to communicate my disgust on the current game, I posted my thoughts here instead of the game thread. 

Terrible.

[ashbury]

  On 8/24/2019 at 2:18 AM, bighat said:

In my haste to communicate my disgust on the current game, I posted my thoughts here instead of the game thread. Apologies!

Should have been replaced a couple of innings ago.