Front Page: Twins Game Recap (8/19): Twins Unable to Mount Comeback, Drop Series Opener 6-4

[Mike Sixel]

I was already thinking along the same lines. My math says every team pretty much goes with a 5 man rotation. 15 teams times 5 pitchers means 75 starting rotation spots. His ERA is slightly better than league average but worse than the Twins ERA which is still somehow in the American League top 5. Given how they have been for the last month I am surprised that the Twins are still 5th best in the AL in run prevention. Better than the Yankees. Anyway, we are defending Gibson but just against unfairness. I had much higher expectations for him than what we have seen so far this year.

Right. I'm not for giving him a QO at this point, but am for being realistic about how hard pitching is right now. And, I thought he'd be a bit better than this.

[Taildragger8791]

While Gibson has been around league average, his performance doesn't translate to being a #3 for a strong contender which is what we should be talking about. That translates to being a #3 on a likely non-playoff team. If he's our #4 or #5 starter I'm good with that because he can eat innings and put together some really good stretches at times, but his downside is off-putting to me for a playoff rotation. Just too many baserunners and stressful innings for my comfort level.

[Mike Sixel]

The bottom line is if we can not go out and get somebody better than Kyle Gibson this offseason that's pretty sad of our front office. I believe we will find someone better though and I look forward to the day when Gibson signs with another team. His career in light of being such a high draft pick, has been very disappointing in all aspects. It's unfortunate but some guys just never reach their potential, some don't even come close. I think Gibson had what it takes to be a great pitcher, but I don't think he will ever be one.

Gonna cost a lot of money or prospects to get a better than league average pitcher, or four. Good luck.

[Battle ur tail off]

 

Interesting development:

• Jake Cave, ML batting stats after this game:  .261 / .358 / .374
• Byron Buxton, 2019 to date:  .262 / .314 / .513
• Eddie Rosario:  .282 / .307 / .519
• Max Kepler:  .255 / .336 / .529

Defensively there's no comparison between Cave and Buxton or Kepler.  However, if Cave keeps increasing the gap in his on base numbers and closing in SLG. there is a case for platooning him with Buxton and Rosario, with Buxton getting the call in late innings of tight games.

 

No. 100% no. He isn't that great and he's terrible in the field. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

If Buxton is healthy, Cave is a quite good fourth outfielder. You can remove Kepler and swap in Cave and still be okay. Same goes for Rosario.

 

But if you lose Buxton and have to rotate Kepler into center while Cave mans a corner, that's a big dropoff in two of three OF positions and really hurts the team.

 

So stop getting hurt, Byron.

 

And I say this as a person with a pretty immense dislike of Cave on an emotional level. He’s just a player I do not like for some reason.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

If you ask me, the throw Rosario made was at least as bad, and IMO worse, than the pitch Gibson threw.

Would it have been better if their throws were switched?

[Darius]

Just when you think a corner has been turned.

 

Heaven forbid we go on any sort of long winning streak. Can’t beat the White Sox at home? That’s too much to ask?

[Riverbrian]

Yep, Smalley’s timing on that one was impeccable.

I blame Roy

[Battle ur tail off]

 

While Gibson has been around league average, his performance doesn't translate to being a #3 for a strong contender which is what we should be talking about. That translates to being a #3 on a likely non-playoff team. If he's our #4 or #5 starter I'm good with that because he can eat innings and put together some really good stretches at times, but his downside is off-putting to me for a playoff rotation. Just too many baserunners and stressful innings for my comfort level.

 

I can kind of buy into this. 

 

If Gibson is on this team as a #3-4 guy, I am fine with it. 

 

The problem is, he was counted on to be our #2 and hasn't pitched like it this season. I'd offer him a 2 year deal for like 25 mill and see if he bites. Wouldn't go over 2 years with him though. If he gets 3-4 somewhere else(most likely will), then so be it. 

 

 

 

Edited August 20, 2019 by Battle ur tail off

[Bomba2026]

No one is ever to blame so unless that squirrel is gone, I will just blame it again if we lose tonight! Lizzo can blame it on the Squirrel! Gibson probably blamed the squirell. The squirrel blamed guys left on base...

[Vanimal46]

Just when you think a corner has been turned.

 

Heaven forbid we go on any sort of long winning streak. Can’t beat the White Sox at home? That’s too much to ask?

I propose a new unwritten rule... If it's past August 15th, teams with a worse record have to forfeit against the teams with better records. Who says no?!

[Riverbrian]

 

Just when you think a corner has been turned.

Heaven forbid we go on any sort of long winning streak. Can’t beat the White Sox at home? That’s too much to ask?

 

I'm too lazy to do the research and I'm not sure where to start. 

 

But I am wondering out loud: How many times has a team never lost to a divisional opponent during the course of season? 

 

It has probably happened but my guess on how often is going to be extremely rare. 

 

You'll just cause yourself unnecessary craziness assuming that good teams are always going to be beat bad teams and wondering why it didn't happen on a given night. 

 

 

[terrydactyls]

Before the final vote on the worst Twins'play of the night, I would like to add another. Why was Sano swinging at a 2-0 pitch with two outs in the ninth? And it wasn't even a strike! Major screw up.

[Mr. Brooks]

Before the final vote on the worst Twins'play of the night, I would like to add another. Why was Sano swinging at a 2-0 pitch with two outs in the ninth? And it wasn't even a strike! Major screw up.

The whole point of working a count in your favor is to get a good pitch to hit.

Why wouldn't we want Sano swinging on a 2-0 count?

 

His career OPS, by the way, in 2-0 counts is .926.

[rkevin]

I like Gibson.

I don't like Gibson.

I like Gibson.

I don't like Gibson.

I like Gibson.

I don't like Gibson.

I like Gibson.

I don't like Gibson.

 

I'm not picking petals off a daisy or being wishy-washy. That sentiment sums up how I feel about his Twins career.

 

[USAFChief]

 

The whole point of working a count in your favor is to get a good pitch to hit.
Why wouldn't we want Sano swinging on a 2-0 count?

His career OPS, by the way, in 2-0 counts is .926.

Perhaps you answered own question.

 

The pitch was well below the strike zone.

 

Otherwise, I agree. I want him hunting a pitch to whack on 2-0. 

[BD57]

 

He's 7% better than league average this season.
So even if you want to toss out last season as an outlier, he's still by definition a #3 on an average team.

 

One way of looking at it ... where is he among #3's on playoff caliber teams, because that's what we're trying to be.

[yarnivek1972]

I'm too lazy to do the research and I'm not sure where to start.

 

But I am wondering out loud: How many times has a team never lost to a divisional opponent during the course of season?

 

It has probably happened but my guess on how often is going to be extremely rare.

 

You'll just cause yourself unnecessary craziness assuming that good teams are always going to be beat bad teams and wondering why it didn't happen on a given night.

I could be wrong, but I think the Twins shut out somebody not that long ago. Maybe it was just at home. Probably the Tigers when they were really bad. Early 2000s maybe.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I could be wrong, but I think the Twins shut out somebody not that long ago. Maybe it was just at home. Probably the Tigers when they were really bad. Early 2000s maybe.

I don't think they shut them out that year without checking. 

 

But I remember they had some ungodly winning streak against them, like 12+ games. That may have extended over two seasons, though.

 

Man, those Tigers teams were terrible.

[terrydactyls]

The whole point of working a count in your favor is to get a good pitch to hit.

Why wouldn't we want Sano swinging on a 2-0 count?

His career OPS, by the way, in 2-0 counts is .926.

Does that include 2-0 pitches that are three inches below the strike zone? Looking for a good pitch to hit is great. Flailing away at ball three is a whole different thing.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Does that include 2-0 pitches that are three inches below the strike zone? Looking for a good pitch to hit is great. Flailing away at ball three is a whole different thing.

Critiquing single pitches a batter faces is a bad strategy.

 

Baseball is hard. Sano has shown himself to be an extraordinary hitter for a couple of months now. He has fantastic plate discipline.

 

But he’s also kinda bad at contact and that's including the improved version of Sano.

 

Even Barry Bonds swung at bad pitches and missed pitches in the zone. If this game was so easy, .406 wouldn’t be a historical number to us.

[wabene]

Concur... He should only be re-signed if it's not possible to sign Big Mike or Odorizzi first.

This Gibby Bobo finally has to agree. I'd rather go to battle with big Mike or Odo or both

[Brock Beauchamp]

I'll take Gibson's reliable mediocrity over Pineda not pitching for 1/3rd or more of a season.

[wabene]

I'll take Gibson's reliable mediocrity over Pineda not pitching for 1/3rd or more of a season.

Maybe but properly managed Big Mike may just prove you wrong this fall.

[Mike Sixel]

Maybe but properly managed Big Mike may just prove you wrong this fall.

When did he last pitch even 2/3 of a year?

[VivaBomboRivera!]

 

Cave is a terrible defender. And look at that slugging percentage you cited.

 

Both of these points are noted in the OP.  Nice to know we're in agreement.  Cheers!

 

Defensively there's no comparison between Cave and Buxton or Kepler...

However, if Cave keeps... closing in SLG...

[wabene]

When did he last pitch even 2/3 of a year?

What I'm saying is yes we know the Big Mike will have trouble with his knees etc but if he is rested headed into the post season he could be one of our most valuable pitchers.

[VivaBomboRivera!]

 

No. 100% no. He isn't that great and he's terrible in the field. 

 

Please read the post.  Note use of the words "development" and "no comparison."

 

Here are Cave's International League numbers:  .352 / .393 / .592.  At the start of his current call-up, the man was hitting a buck-ninety, so it could be hoped that he would figure out ML pitching and begin to approach his AAA marks.  The steady increase in all three of these indicators is evidence of this hoped-for improvement.   

 

[Note that as of the bottom of the 5th in the White Sox game on the 20th, Cave is 1 for 2 with a run scored and now has an 8-game hitting streak.]

 

Can we get some agreement that there is indeed "no comparison" between Cave and Buxton or Kepler defensively?  Thank you.  There is hope that he can work on his skill set in this department, but one thing at a time.

 

My money would _not_ be on Cave growing into an ML superstar either offensively or defensively.  This post is about a trend in his offensive maturation that could make him a contributor to the team's success, and perhaps relieve a little of the worry about daily wear-and-tear Buxton inflicts on himself.

 

Bottom line:  Don't hate Cave because he's not as good as his teammates.  Coach him and find a place for him to contribute, because he's a Twin at least for the remainder of the year.

Edited August 21, 2019 by VivaBomboRivera!

[VivaBomboRivera!]

 

I blame Roy

 

Just don't blame the squirrel.

[Mr. Brooks]

Does that include 2-0 pitches that are three inches below the strike zone? Looking for a good pitch to hit is great. Flailing away at ball three is a whole different thing.

I was responding to the idea that he shouldn't be swinging on a 2-0 count.

 

Hitting major league pitching is hard.

If I had to guess, I'd imagine he thought he was swinging at a pitch in the zone when he committed to his swing.