Twins Moving on From SP Trade Targets?

[Nick Nelson]

Per La Velle in his latest at the Star Trib: Denied a top-line starter in trade talks, Twins turn to Plan B

 

According to multiple sources with knowledge of talks, the Twins discussed trade scenarios with Toronto about righthander Marcus Stroman before the All-Star starting pitcher was dealt to the Mets. They also inquired about Mets righthander Noah Syndergaard before being turned off by New York’s high asking price, which included Byron Buxton.

 

With those two targets no longer viable, the Twins could instead look to adding another bullpen arm before the deadline, a market in which Toronto’s Daniel Hudson, San Diego’s Kirby Yates, Arizona teammates Greg Holland and Archie Bradley, Baltimore’s Mychal Givens and others could emerge as targets.

 

 

 

I gotta say, the notion that Syndergaard is "no longer viable" seems dubious to me. There's still a ways to go until Wednesday afternoon's deadline. Posturing and misdirection are common around this time. The Mets are dreaming if they think they're going to get an established young big-leaguer of Buxton's caliber.

 

However, if the report is indeed true, it sounds like the Twins are fully swinging their focus to the bullpen. Thoughts?

[Bandit34]

I don't trust Berrios in a must win situation.

I certainly don't trust Gibson in a must win situation.

Odorizzi is a definite no-go in a must win situation.

Not sure about Pineda. 

Perez? No, of course not. 

 

Even though I am not a huge fan of Buxton, that is about the biggest joke to be asking for him. 

[Bandit34]

We definitely should have knocked the door down on Stroman. Should have went bold on him. 

[Mill1634]

Can't blame them for that. Apparently they tried on Stroman, but the Blue Jays never circled back to get a counter offer. I find it hard to believe none of the contending teams would give a top 100 guy. Seems like the Blue Jays settled. Only other starter that I think is a real upgrade is Zack Grienke, and he has a NTC to the Twins.

 

However, if they are going to go for bullpen, please go all in. I'm talking about Edwin Diaz/Kirby Yates/Ken Giles, plus Ian Kennedy or Michael Givens. You HAVE to get at least two more arms. Anything less and I would consider it a fail, unless the only other arm added is from one of those three first names listed. If they only add a Kennedy type, then I don't think it's enough. If you're sticking in that camp, need two more. 

[Danchat]

I doubt that was the end of negotiations, as I could imagine they could re-open talks on Wednesday. But they're asked for Buxton / Kiriloff & Lewis, so it seems they want a humongous sum, so I can't blame the Twins for backing away.

 

Here's hoping they can land a top-end reliever. From that list, I'd really only like Yates.

[twinkiesfan11]

Sounds like Falvey just needs to wait it out. New sellers will emerge and prices will probably come down in the final hours and minutes leading up to the deadline.

 

A focus on relievers sounds reasonable if prices are more favorable. I’d be just as happy with two more established relievers as one starter if the investment is roughly equal.

[Mr. Brooks]

I doubt that was the end of negotiations, as I could imagine they could re-open talks on Wednesday. But they're asked for Buxton / Kiriloff & Lewis, so it seems they want a humongous sum, so I can't blame the Twins for backing away.

 

Here's hoping they can land a top-end reliever. From that list, I'd really only like Yates.

With the current state of the bullpen, I like anyone and everyone on that, or most any other list.

 

As Chief said, this is a bullpen whose 8th inning setup man went unclaimed through waivers, a week before the deadline, with every contender looking for bullpen help.

[Shaitan]

No on Givens.

[jdoffing11]

 

I don't trust Berrios in a must win situation.

If you don't trust Berrios in a must win situation, then you'll be biting your nails anytime the Twins are in a must win situation. There's no one available that's better than Berrios, besides possibly 35 million a year of Zack Greinke, which is a short list to begin with anyways. That being said, I don't trust anyone else besides Berrios in a must win situation so if we get a starter I think it has to be someone who slots as a clear number two. Getting a 3 or 4 seems pointless, unless you plan to let all 3 FA starters walk or you want to have a guy who can come into the game in the playoffs and give 4/5 innings at a time, but even in that case, we may have found someone in Thorpe or Smeltzer who could do that so there's no reason to overpay in a seller's market.

[Otto von Ballpark]

From the Syndergaard thread:

 

I wonder what the motivation is for the “multiple sources” who told this to LaValle. Or even how serious the Mets were. (“We demand Buxton!” versus “how do you feel about Byron these days?”) Then, how the Mets feel about seeing this in print.

Sure enough, Lavelle was among those who reported 4 days ago that the Twins had talked to the Mets about Syndergaard, and that the Mets were interested in Lewis and Kirilloff:

 

http://m.startribune.com/twins-interested-in-noah-syndergaard-but-mets-asking-price-high/513224672/

 

So reporting this Buxton thing now seems like an effort to deflect from the Lewis/Kirilloff question.

 

In any case, I knew it was a long shot, but my hopes for Syndergaard are pretty much dashed.

[sorney]

I'm all for swinging big....but Buxton?!?!  Please.  Any prospects you want to talk about (including Lewis or Kirkiloff) sure, let's talk.  Nice move by Twins walking away. 

[FlauerPauer]

The more I think about Robbie Ray, the more I like what he brings to the table. Hard throwing lefty who would give the Twins a fighting chance against the Yankees and Astros. A starter might be a need more than a want considering that Perez and Pineda have to be getting to some sort of "innings limit". Pineda hasn't thrown this many innings in two years and Perez only threw 85ish last year.

[Tuba]

I think we should turn our attention to Greinke. We have a lot of salary coming off our already lower-than-last-year payroll. We should be looking to spend lots next season. Attendance and ratings are up, time to reward the fans. Minimal/no prospect loss. Moves the needle. No-trade clauses can typically be negotiated away. Improves bullpen by adding Perez/whichever starter.

 

If the market really is as constipated as it seems then I could be swayed on Givens-types if only because they ultimately likely represent an upgrade, however small.

 

 

[stringer bell]

They need relief pitchers if they want to win the division. Next year, they will need starters, or to re-sign at least two of the free agents they have at the end of this year (Pineda, Odorizzi, Gibson). How much better is Robbie Ray than Pérez? 

[Otto von Ballpark]

So reporting this Buxton thing now seems like an effort to deflect from the Lewis/Kirilloff question.

  

I'm all for swinging big....but Buxton?!?!  Please.  Any prospects you want to talk about (including Lewis or Kirkiloff) sure, let's talk.  Nice move by Twins walking away.

 

This is exactly what I was talking about. And this is the reaction that Lavelle's source was likely looking for by naming Buxton (a reaction they probably weren't getting 4 days ago after the initial report naming Lewis/Kirilloff).

[Dantes929]

 

I don't trust Berrios in a must win situation.

I certainly don't trust Gibson in a must win situation.

Odorizzi is a definite no-go in a must win situation.

Not sure about Pineda. 

Perez? No, of course not. 

 

Even though I am not a huge fan of Buxton, that is about the biggest joke to be asking for him. 

Nick Blackburn pitched great in his two must win games.    All sorts of aces haven't   I didn't even trust Santana to beat the A's back in 2006.   The guy in the majors I trust most to pitch a great game in a must win spot is Justin Verlander. who by the way is 0-4 with a 5.67 ERA in World Series games.    We have beat plenty of Cy Young winners already.   Of course the better the pitcher the greater your odds but II am fine with any of them in the playoffs because that means we made the playoffs.  

[lecroy24fan]

 

  
This is exactly what I was talking about. And this is the reaction that Lavelle's source was likely looking for by naming Buxton (a reaction they probably weren't getting 4 days ago after the initial report naming Lewis/Kirilloff).

Or after getting Stroman the Mets decided they wanted something else.

[twinsnorth49]

Buxton....lol.

 

Not over yet, see how things change by Wednesday if the offers aren't there.

 

Yates and Giles would be guys I'd like to see.

[h2oface]

This is why you just sign someone like Kimbrel, and don't have to mess with the ridiculous trade demands, just cash. If Syndergaard gets traded to another team and doesn't get Buxton, it will be obvious he could be traded for someone not Buxton.

[jdoffing11]

 

No on Givens.

If we can get him for the right price and add another higher leverage arm in the bullpen, someone who you'd trust as much as Rogers. He throws hard, and has 2 more years of team control. He's giving up homers at insane rate, that can probably be improved by a good pitching coach and is probably unsustainable in the first place. Keep in mind he plays in Camden Yards, and in the AL East so he gets to play in Yankee Stadium, Fenway and the Trop, all hitter friendly. That being said, if he's the only other guy we add then our deadline grade is an F.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Or after getting Stroman the Mets decided they wanted something else.

That doesn't make sense. The Mets originally wanted Lewis/Kirilloff, then got Stroman, and then decided they didn't want Lewis/Kirilloff but rather Buxton? What does Buxton have to do with Stroman? They were never planning on punting 2020, not with deGrom, Conforto, etc.

 

If anything, getting an MLB player like Stroman separately should make it *less* likely that they'd have to demand an MLB player be included in the Syndergaard deal.

[Dantes929]

 

With the current state of the bullpen, I like anyone and everyone on that, or most any other list.

As Chief said, this is a bullpen whose 8th inning setup man went unclaimed through waivers, a week before the deadline, with every contender looking for bullpen help.

Not really a fair assessment.   The other two we gave up were picked up and no way the rest of the pen would   have cleared waivers.    Romo should help and I am hoping for Kennedy.    I would also really like Lance Lynn if not too costly.   16 of 22 quality starts is ridick.    Also, although I have been told we won't see Brusdar Graterol this season he just had a clean inning in rehab with reports of constant 100 mph.    He was absolutely on track before going on the IL.    If he stays healthy I can't imagine he won't be up here for the stretch run in September.

[Rosterman]

The Mets really don't have to trade Sven. Or even Wheeler.

 

The Twins should entertain offers on Gibson or Odorizzi, as well as Castro and Schoop.

 

They should move full force on Greinke.

 

And grab one other bullpen ar in the process.

 

A lot of posturing will happen. Remember, players till under control DON'T NEED TO BE TRADED. Big contracts for non contenders is a must trade if possible. Especially if you now want to egt something.

 

The reality is that NOT a lot of players under a team control are necessarily trading hands, because they can still be valuable to a rebuilding team, and if doing well in 2019, still available for trade in the off-season.

 

Hummmmm....Buxton? 

[Otto von Ballpark]

Furthermore, nowhere in his article does Lavelle attempt to put the Buxton thing in any kind of post-Stroman trade context, or in the context of his initial Lewis/Kirilloff report 4 days ago (which he completely ignores).

 

I'm guessing the Twins and Mets have not discussed Syndergaard since the Stroman trade occurred.

[jdoffing11]

 

The more I think about Robbie Ray, the more I like what he brings to the table. Hard throwing lefty who would give the Twins a fighting chance against the Yankees and Astros. A starter might be a need more than a want considering that Perez and Pineda have to be getting to some sort of "innings limit". Pineda hasn't thrown this many innings in two years and Perez only threw 85ish last year.

Ray is definitely pretty intriguing with his high strikeout numbers. However, throwing a lefty against power hitting righties of the Yankees and Astros always feels like a risk, but surprisingly the Yankees are just 16-14 vs lefty starters this year, and have the league's best record vs righites, although the Astros are an amazing 23-7 against left handed starters. The other concerns about Ray are his .776 OPS vs RHB, his high HR rate (1.6 per 9 which is about on track with his career pace when you adjust to the ball being juiced) and high walk rate (4.0 per 9) that might make it hard to go deep in to postseason starts. Still, I think he probably slots in at number 2 in the rotation for now. As for the inning restrictions, I don't expect much if anything for Perez, since he got a total of 102 when you include the minors, and had pitched at least 185 in the 2 years before that. The reason he only got 85 in the majors last is just that he was terrible. With Pineda, however, I think they'll be much more cautious coming down the stretch like we saw at the beginning of the year. If he shows any signs of regression or decreased velocity in September, or we're in a comfortable spot in the standings, they'll probably shorten his starts where he can stay in his groove but not get overused, and they'll have the expanded rosters to pick up his innings.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Seems like the Twins front office would have more to gain by being tight-lipped for the next 36 hours.

[PseudoSABR]

This feels like posturing.  Either for the fanbase, to make a non-trade look okay.  Or to the Mets, if they actually asked for Buxton. 

 

There's no reason for the Twins to leak this, ahead of the deadline without hoping for some kind of effect.

[ScooterDance]

Sounds like Giles has elbow inflammation that has not abated over the last month and is unlikely to be traded before the deadline.

 

Danuh dun dun dun. Another one bites the dust ahhhhh

[DocBauer]

Pay a fair and decent price for a quality RP! Build the pen for the post season.

 

The Mets are nuts, and their is no ACE SP coming to the Twins. Greinke, with his contract, deffered money and no trade clause included.

 

Add a strong pen arm to what you have now and ride your existing rotation arms and offense. Pineda is very solid. Perez slumped badly, but has looked much better the past few times out. Odorizzi is having a slump right now, but he's also finished the last couple of seasons strong. Its been a weird season for Gibson but we also know what he is capable of.

 

Add someone you trust to what you have on hand, 2 months to let chips fall where they may, and have a post season pen that can cover 2-4 IP per game. Think the Royals a couple years ago with an even more potent offense.

[FlauerPauer]

Really beginning to think that we're hoping for Daniel Hudson. No go on Giles. Smith won't give up necessary pieces, starters, nay. Looking like Romo will be it, which could be worse.