Article: Trade Deadline Thread: What To Do About the Rotation?

[TopGunn#22]

I would never give up BOTH Lewis and Kiriloff.  But I would give up one of them to get Thor and the guy I'd give up would be Kiriloff (it pains me to say it, because he's going to be a GOOD M.L. player).  We currently have Kepler, Rosario and Buxton on the major league club.  With Larnach and Rooker in the minors and getting closer we simply cannot play all of these guys.  Kiriloff would be a GREAT get by the Mets.  And I still think I'd give up a pretty big package headlined by Kiriloff and go for Thor AND Edwin Diaz.  Thor is 26 years old and has "Ace" stuff.  He headlines your staff with Berrios for years to come.  Taylor is a tremendous lefty out of the pen, but Diaz is 25 years old and saved 57!! games last year.  He's your closer for years to come.  How does Taylor in the 8th and Diaz in the 9th sound if you're battling the Astros or Yankees  I'd part with Kiriloff and Graterol (2 of our top 3 prospects) as well as one of Gibson or Perez if the Mets MUST have a back-end SP as part of the deal.  I'd probably include a Gonsalves as a sweetener.  If I HAD to in order to close the deal, I might offer another decent piece.  Thor just has higher upside than Stroman.  Look, I wouldn't be adverse to Stroman OR Giles (or both in the right deal).  I just like the tremendous potential of Thor at the top of our rotation.  

[Utah Twins Fan]

My gut is telling me with the past history of Lavine working for Texas it may end up being twins trading for Leclerc and Minor which wouldn’t be terrible and might not cost them the farm. I could be totally off but we will see either way the longer they wait the more desperate Twins might end up being to make a deal which to me is no good. If the deals are on the table now just make them and make a legitimate strike at the postseason and World Series this year. Never know what next season will be so stop worrying about prospects that may or may not work out.

[TopGunn#22]

To add to the above:  I align my thinking primarily to ChiefsKid and Thrylos.  We currently have tremendous depth in our farm system.  In addition to Larnach (who led Oregon St. to the NCAA College World Series Championship a year and a half ago and was the guy who came up with clutch hit after clutch hit) and Rooker as corner OF/1B prospects behind Kiriloff, we have Wander Javier and the kid we JUST drafted in the first round this year as a SS (behind Lewis) we can certainly give up one of Lewis or Kiriloff.  If the Mets want BOTH, I counter with "O.K. then send us Diaz and Wheeler and we'll throw in Gonsalves and Gibson."  We'd be parting with our top 2 prospects but gaining a front line starter for several years (Thor) an elite closer who is 25-years old (Diaz) and a tremendous arm for the rest of this season in Wheeler.  Figure out any additional "sweetener.".  This is adding All Star caliber players who are 26 and 25 years old for "prospects."  Granted, these are great prospects, but you're getting YOUNG, CONTROLLABLE, ALL-STAR talent in return.  I would NEVER trade pieces like this for rentals but I WOULD for young and controllable All Star talent like Thor and Diaz.  (and maybe we even convince Wheeler to stick with us if we have a great post-season ride and possibly win a World Series.  

[Rosterman]

I'm liking Pineda more and more and wonder what the chances are of his returning to the Twins in 2020. If you do have to limit Pineda's innins come September, you have ample prospects to work with him in a game (Smeltzer, Thorpe, perhaps Stewart, Poppen or Stashak).

 

Hey, I would offer out Jake Odorizzi right now, when he still has some value...assuming that you are trading for a top flight starter. Chances are you will not be resigning him.Let's see how he pitches right before the deadline.

 

Perez would be a choice to go back to the pen if the rotation as is remains intact, but adds a power arm. Nothing like having another lefty in the pen.

 

I feel good with the guys the Twins might need to add to the roster come September. Pitchers and a bat.

 

But, the hard reality, we need a top-flight closer so Rogers can remain a setup guy!

[Twins33]

I don’t necessarily agree on Larnach. There is a reason why sellers are focusing on him from the Twins system (according to some reports).

Is Kirilloff really a better hitter? He’s getting chewed up in AA this year (.730ish OPS). During his meteoric rise, there were some services that had serious questions about how his bat would play as he got closer to the majors.

Waller hasn’t left E-town yet. I’m not sure we really know what we have there yet.

Not saying Kirilloff has busted. But I’m not convinced he’s better than Larnach. I don’t know if other FOs are either.

Hard to judge with Kirilloff, as wrist injuries can mess with an entire season.

[highlander]

Not really interested in SP. Vazquez and/or Iglesias that is all!

 

Doc Bauer is spot on.

[KirbyDome89]

 

If they won't do this, what will they do?

Express "interest," and pat themselves on the back for offering a below market value deal. Add back end pieces and reap praise for "savy," additions that can supposedly be turned into elite performers. Sell the financial flexibility, sustainability "wait and see," company line. Rinse, wash, repeat....

[Dantes929]

 

He's not going to be in Minnesota this season.

"The big news is that Brusdar Graterol made his return to the mound in a rehab start. He threw the first inning and worked a perfect first inning with two strikeouts. The fastball was mostly at 100 mph per reports."   This shocked me since it came out of the blue for me.    I didn't think he would be throwing live and certainly didn't expect 100 mph.    Are you still convinced the Twins can't use him this year?

[Brock Beauchamp]

"The big news is that Brusdar Graterol made his return to the mound in a rehab start. He threw the first inning and worked a perfect first inning with two strikeouts. The fastball was mostly at 100 mph per reports." This shocked me since it came out of the blue for me. I didn't think he would be throwing live and certainly didn't expect 100 mph. Are you still convinced the Twins can't use him this year?

Could they use him? Maybe.

 

Will he be ready for MLB hitters or will they want to trigger his 40-man roster activation? Unlikely.

[Mr. Brooks]

Could they use him? Maybe.

 

Will he be ready for MLB hitters or will they want to trigger his 40-man roster activation? Unlikely.

I'm hoping the current FO will be far more open to being more aggressive with guys like this.

 

During our down seasons, I was all for conserving options and service time. But now that the window is open, that should all go out the window if you think a guy can help you now.

And I do think that Graterol, if completely healthy, could help out of the bullpen this year.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I'm hoping the current FO will be far more open to being more aggressive with guys like this.

 

During our down seasons, I was all for conserving options and service time. But now that the window is open, that should all go out the window if you think a guy can help you now.

And I do think that Graterol, if completely healthy, could help out of the bullpen this year.

I also want the front office to be more aggressive in this regard but Graterol is rehabbing a shoulder issue. That’s probably not the guy you get aggressive with late in a season.

[Mr. Brooks]

I also want the front office to be more aggressive in this regard but Graterol is rehabbing a shoulder issue. That’s probably not the guy you get aggressive with late in a season.

Sure, I'm saying if he's completely healthy a month from now.

If not, then yeah, don't push him.

[Danchat]

 

I don’t necessarily agree on Larnach. There is a reason why sellers are focusing on him from the Twins system (according to some reports).

Is Kirilloff really a better hitter? He’s getting chewed up in AA this year (.730ish OPS). During his meteoric rise, there were some services that had serious questions about how his bat would play as he got closer to the majors.
 

As a general principle, prospects usually have a rough time transitioning from A+ to AA as the competition is a bit of a difficulty curve. Just from my general perception, hyped up prospects usually start kicking butt in A- and A+, but then reach AA (or sometimes AAA) and then cool off a little bit. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

Could they use him? Maybe.

 

Will he be ready for MLB hitters or will they want to trigger his 40-man roster activation? Unlikely.

Graterol has to be added to the 40-man by November anyway. And I'm not sure we'll fill our empty spots by September.

 

I agree, it seems unlikely given the shoulder rehab. But maybe they want Graterol to get some September innings anyway, to make up for lost time...

[Dantes929]

 

I also want the front office to be more aggressive in this regard but Graterol is rehabbing a shoulder issue. That’s probably not the guy you get aggressive with late in a season.

 

Graterol has to be added to the 40-man by November anyway. And I'm not sure we'll fill our empty spots by September.

I agree, it seems unlikely given the shoulder rehab. But maybe they want Graterol to get some September innings anyway, to make up for lost time...

When Brock said he will not be up I thought it was reasonable and I imagined rehab to consist of a lot of workouts, soft tosses and building up gradually such that being ready in two months might be stretching it.   I accepted all that.   However, he has obviously been doing more than just resting for the last two months if he is already seeing live action and they are letting him throw that hard.    If they were going to baby him now is the time they would be doing it.     A fairly long lay off but if he can show the same stuff he did earlier with the same control he could be the shot in the arm the bullpen needs.   All of this is, of course,  conditional on the reports about consistent 100 mph being close to accurate.    I may be too excited about this guy but I really don't see using options as being a big deal.   He just has too big an arm not to stick the first try or three.

[jorgenswest]

The Twins wouldn’t use an option on Graterol calling him up as long as they don’t return him to the minors. Maybe they will keep him in relief in the minors and give him a look in September.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Graterol has to be added to the 40-man by November anyway. And I'm not sure we'll fill our empty spots by September.

I agree, it seems unlikely given the shoulder rehab. But maybe they want Graterol to get some September innings anyway, to make up for lost time...

If the team is confident enough in him to call him up for September, they'd be damned fools not to wedge him onto the roster on August 31st, just in case he pulls a K-Rod.

 

But I'm skeptical they're really interested in calling up a 20 year old and having him pitch late into the season after he had shoulder issues.

[Otto von Ballpark]

If the team is confident enough in him to call him up for September, they'd be damned fools not to wedge him onto the roster on August 31st, just in case he pulls a K-Rod.

 

But I'm skeptical they're really interested in calling up a 20 year old and having him pitch late into the season after he had shoulder issues.

Agreed.

 

And technically, I think the injury loophole could still be employed to get him on the postseason roster, even after August 31st:

 

https://www.thecubreporter.com/book/export/html/3549

 

"7. An injured post-season eligible player can (with the approval of the MLB Commissioner) be replaced on his club's Post-Season Eligibility List by a player (regardless of position) who was on an Active List, Reserve List, 60-day Injured List, or Military List of a minor league affiliate from that organization prior to midnight (Eastern) on August 31st"

[Mike Sixel]

The Twins wouldn’t use an option on Graterol calling him up as long as they don’t return him to the minors. Maybe they will keep him in relief in the minors and give him a look in September.

If they think he can help this team in the playoffs, that should be 100x more important than a year of control. Theret no guarantee next year will look like thiy year

[Otto von Ballpark]

If they think he can help this team in the playoffs, that should be 100x more important than a year of control. Theret no guarantee next year will look like thiy year

No worries. It should have zero effect on Graterol's team control -- he won't burn an option this year unless we call him up and then send him back down for 20+ days, which seems almost impossible this late in the season. And we can easily reclaim any service time by optioning him to begin 2020 (which we'd probably do anyway).

[Mike Sixel]

No worries. It should have zero effect on Graterol's team control -- he won't burn an option this year unless we call him up and then send him back down for 20+ days, which seems almost impossible this late in the season. And we can easily reclaim any service time by optioning him to begin 2020 (which we'd probably do anyway).

Good points. Even if they did burn a year, you gotta play to win when you have a chance. It's not likely they will consistently be in this position.