Article: Twins Game Recap (7/22): Twins Turn Triple Play, Mitch Garver Homers Twice in Win Over Yankees

[Han Joelo]

Watched Tom's recap.  Always good to see the stuff besides the homers.

 

Duffey--whoah.  Between surviving the bullpen purge (so far) and this performance, he should be feeling pretty good.  In addition to coming in with a man on, he had a couple of screw ups and still kept his composure.

 

Given Berrios' reaction to the Morin deal, I am not so sure these guys sit around pining for outside help the way we do.  I think they want to see each other succeed.  I'm almost thinking that opening up the spots on the 40 man was done to provide catnip for the minor leaguers not on the roster.

 

Seems like Garver thoroughly outplayed All-Star Gary Sanchez in this one.

[PDX Twin]

I read in LEN's column that Arraez told Schoop he was stepping on 3rd and turning it if it came his way. Back in the 90s I believe Gaetti called a triple play before it happened too. Props to Luis for having the stones to sprint toward the bag and make an off balance throw to Schoop. Unbelievable turn by Schoop. In addition to being a sensational play, it was a confidence building game changer. 

 

Others have described Arraez as simply "a ballplayer." I couldn't agree more. In addition to being a hitting machine, he does the little things well most of the time and makes the occasional unexpected play. It seems like he doesn't have the most talent on the field in terms of speed, throwing arm, strength, etc., but he uses what he has at maximum efficiency to be a very good major-league player. We need a few of those sprinkled in with the (often underachieving) uber-talents!

[jorgenswest]

As it should be. Good job to the scorer.

In order for the scorer to give the win to Thorpe they must determine that Duffey’s performance was both brief and ineffective. I think the reality is very different.

 

Duffey came in facing the tying run and needing to put out a fire. He faced the heart of the order with no outs from the stretch.

 

WPA

 

Duffey 0.111

Thorpe 0.075

 

It really doesn’t matter that Thorpe pitches well or possibly better. The determination needs to be about Duffey’s performance.

 

Do you see it as both brief and ineffective?

 

The example given is when a reliever gives up 3 runs and then their team retakes the lead. Is that how you see Duffey’s contribution?

[nicksaviking]

I only got to watch the second inning, in which Perez could not have looked more dominant. He was painting the corners and pulling the strings perfectly on so many off speed pitches. I was surprised tracking the game on my phone that he was having so much trouble with the zone in every other inning.

[SpicyGarvSauce]

 

I only got to watch the second inning, in which Perez could not have looked more dominant. He was painting the corners and pulling the strings perfectly on so many off speed pitches. I was surprised tracking the game on my phone that he was having so much trouble with the zone in every other inning.

 

He looked equally as bad in the 1st inning, sans the triple play.

[Brock Beauchamp]

In order for the scorer to give the win to Thorpe they must determine that Duffey’s performance was both brief and ineffective. I think the reality is very different.

 

Duffey came in facing the tying run and needing to put out a fire. He faced the heart of the order with no outs from the stretch.

 

WPA

 

Duffey 0.111

Thorpe 0.075

 

It really doesn’t matter that Thorpe pitches well or possibly better. The determination needs to be about Duffey’s performance.

 

Do you see it as both brief and ineffective?

 

The example given is when a reliever gives up 3 runs and then their team retakes the lead. Is that how you see Duffey’s contribution?

MLB’s own site is slightly contradictory on this:

 

“First, a starting pitcher must pitch at least five innings (in a traditional game of nine innings or longer) to qualify for the win. If he does not, the official scorer awards the win to the most effective relief pitcher.

 

There is also a rarely used clause where an official scorer can deem a relief pitcher's appearance "brief and ineffective."

 

My understanding has always been that the scorer can award the W to any relief pitcher if the starter fails to go five innings, they just usually default to the pitcher who followed the starter.

[nicksaviking]

 

In order for the scorer to give the win to Thorpe they must determine that Duffey’s performance was both brief and ineffective. I think the reality is very different.

Duffey came in facing the tying run and needing to put out a fire. He faced the heart of the order with no outs from the stretch.

WPA

Duffey 0.111
Thorpe 0.075

It really doesn’t matter that Thorpe pitches well or possibly better. The determination needs to be about Duffey’s performance.

Do you see it as both brief and ineffective?

The example given is when a reliever gives up 3 runs and then their team retakes the lead. Is that how you see Duffey’s contribution?

 

Duffey's effectiveness would only be considered if the starting pitcher went five innings and would have qualified for the win. If the starting pitcher didn't go five innings then the win goes to which pitcher in the official scorer's judgment, was the most effective. 

 

Which is usually defaults to the guy who pitched immediately after the starter.

[USAFChief]

 

MLB’s own site is slightly contradictory on this:

“First, a starting pitcher must pitch at least five innings (in a traditional game of nine innings or longer) to qualify for the win. If he does not, the official scorer awards the win to the most effective relief pitcher.

There is also a rarely used clause where an official scorer can deem a relief pitcher's appearance "brief and ineffective."

My understanding has always been that the scorer can award the W to any relief pitcher if the starter fails to go five innings, they just usually default to the pitcher who followed the starter.

If the starter doesn't go five, They often award the W to the pitcher who throws the most innings. In some cases, the pitcher who got the most critical out(s). 

 

A case could be made for either Duffey or Thorpe last night. Personally, I thought it should go to Thorpe.

[bighat]

I think the magic dust Perez was using ran out a month ago. He's only really had one OK start in his last 7-8 appearances. If we can match him up against KC or Detroit he might get it done, and I think at this point the Twins are kinda stuck with Perez. I'm not thrilled about it but what can we do?

 

Great work from the pen to hang on to this lead. I predict Gibby brings his A-game tonight and gives the Twins a quality start. Would be ecstatic if the Twins could take this series.

[jorgenswest]

Duffey's effectiveness would only be considered if the starting pitcher went five innings and would have qualified for the win. If the starting pitcher didn't go five innings then the win goes to which pitcher in the official scorer's judgment, was the most effective. 

 

Which is usually defaults to the guy who pitched immediately after the starter.

Thanks. So the scorer chose the reliever third in WPA. According to box score Duffey doesn’t even get credit for hold.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

If the starter doesn't go five, They often award the W to the pitcher who throws the most innings. In some cases, the pitcher who got the most critical out(s). 

 

A case could be made for either Duffey or Thorpe last night. Personally, I thought it should go to Thorpe.

Yeah, same here. Duffey pitched well and as jorgen pointed out, his WPA was higher.

 

But actually watching the game, it felt like Thorpe was the one who came in and pitched critical innings against a team that felt like it was unstoppable before he came to the mound. I was cheering Duffey but I was literally pounding the table when Thorpe started sitting down hitters through the seventh and eighth innings.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Thanks. So the scorer chose the reliever third in WPA. According to box score Duffey doesn’t even get credit for hold.

Interesting. So that leads me to believe a pitcher cannot get a Hold before the winning pitcher steps to the mound.

 

I never thought about that but it makes sense.

[terrydactyls]

 

Another request? When you post this, list the twins HR total year to date?

How's this??

 

Today is Monday, July 22, it was the 99th game of the year and the Twins hit 5 home runs giving them a total of 187 home runs for the season.  The Twins are now 61% of the way through the season.  Out of 59 years, the current team ranks 8th on the all-time list of Twins' home runs in one season and are on a pace to hit 306 home runs this season.  They are now 80 home runs behind the single season MLB record.  The next Twins team to pass is the 2004 team that hit 191 home runs.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

 

I believe I have never witnessed a triple-play in realtime. As it happens, I was on the phone with my dad at the start of the game, and am only seeing this one in replay, as usual. I wouldn't think too well of myself if I regretted it, however.

 

I've seen two in real time... One was an unassisted TP and it happened so fast I was like … what?

 

The other was an around the horn that I called right before it happened when I was in college... what's even more amusing was that it was in the middle of a spirited debate about whether or not Maguires HR record would be broken (I argued yes)… Should have bought lotto tickets that day. 

[USAFChief]

 

Thanks. So the scorer chose the reliever third in WPA. According to box score Duffey doesn’t even get credit for hold.

yeah, I don't understand that.

 

Hold:

 

A hold occurs when a relief pitcher enters the game in a save situation and maintains his team's lead for the next relief pitcher, while recording at least one out. One of two conditions must be met for a pitcher to record a hold: 1) He enters with a lead of three runs or less and maintains that lead while recording at least one out. 2) He enters the game with the tying run on-deck, at the plate or on the bases, and records an out.

 

 http://m.mlb.com/glossary/standard-stats/hold

 

edit: I guess Brock nailed it...can't get a hold before the "W"?

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Yeah, same here. Duffey pitched well and as jorgen pointed out, his WPA was higher.

 

But actually watching the game, it felt like Thorpe was the one who came in and pitched critical innings against a team that felt like it was unstoppable before he came to the mound. I was cheering Duffey but I was literally pounding the table when Thorpe started sitting down hitters through the seventh and eighth innings.

Of all our 40 man AAA guys, Thorpe is the one I think could be the most impactful, either as a starter or a reliver. I do hope he's here come July 31. 

[Squirrel]

When we get wins like this, against real competitive teams, teams that will most certainly be going beyond the regular season, it tells me ... we can compete against them. We can do it. It gives me hope.

 

But we still need to make a couple of trades or it's just hoping for the best with my fingers AND toes crossed.

[USAFChief]

 

I've seen two in real time... One was an unassisted TP and it happened so fast I was like … what?

 

The other was an around the horn that I called right before it happened when I was in college... what's even more amusing was that it was in the middle of a spirited debate about whether or not Maguires HR record would be broken (I argued yes)… Should have bought lotto tickets that day. 

I remember the Twins turning two in one game:

 

 

One was with Brunansky at the plate, which I didn't remember. Sweet.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Of all our 40 man AAA guys, Thorpe is the one I think could be the most impactful, either as a starter or a reliver. I do hope he's here come July 31.

Same.

[jorgenswest]

If Harper came in and gave up a run changing Thorpe’s line to two earned runs but not changing his effectiveness would you still award him the win over Duffey?

[GCTF]

I'm just happy the most talked about topic in here is who should have got the W, rather than boiling the bullpen goat du jour in oil.

[tarheeltwinsfan]

I was invited by my pastor, who is a Yankee fan, to have dinner at his home and watch the game. We finished dinner and turned on the tv. The game had already started. Top of the first. Yankee runners on 1B and 2B no outs. Perez pitches...ground ball to third base. Triple play. I looked and my pastor. He quietly said: "I don't believe I've seen that before." I just smiled and did not say anything. What a fun game. 5 Bombas later and some good pitching, defense and hitting...game over. Man that was fun.

[diehardtwinsfan]

just saw this:

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/twins-troll-yankees-with-music-after-strikeouts/ar-AAEJmBc?ocid=spartanntp

 

[SpicyGarvSauce]

 

just saw this:

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/twins-troll-yankees-with-music-after-strikeouts/ar-AAEJmBc?ocid=spartanntp

 

Funny stuff - Yankee fans are so sensitive.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

just saw this:

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/twins-troll-yankees-with-music-after-strikeouts/ar-AAEJmBc?ocid=spartanntp

I caught that around the third or fourth inning.

 

Cheeky, but kinda funny.

 

And New York fans attempting to take the high ground on basically anything is even funnier.

[USAFChief]

 

If Harper came in and gave up a run changing Thorpe’s line to two earned runs but not changing his effectiveness would you still award him the win over Duffey?

Interesting question. I guess I'd say, yes, because Harper wouldn't have changed Thorpe's effectiveness, just his final line.

[nicksaviking]

 

Thanks. So the scorer chose the reliever third in WPA. According to box score Duffey doesn’t even get credit for hold.

 

Well Kudos to Duffey for a job well done, but considering the situation, I think if someone was going to make an argument against WPA, this would probably be an ideal example of it not being perfect.

[big dog]

 

just saw this:

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/twins-troll-yankees-with-music-after-strikeouts/ar-AAEJmBc?ocid=spartanntp

Oh, poor Yankees, getting disrespected.  Boo hoo.  

[nicksaviking]

 

And New York fans attempting to take the high ground on basically anything is even funnier.

 

I've yet to see that happen. I assume those butt hurt Tweeters were just watching on TV and not at the game, because it's been scientifically proven that 94.3% of New Yorkers have never been further from their home than New Jersey, and that's only when they got lost and realized they couldn't make a U Turn in the Lincoln Tunnel.

[jorgenswest]

For some reason I care about this...

 

I found three other Twins games this year in which the starter did not go 5 but left while leading.

 

One was a Twins home game. Perez followed Pineda in an early season game. Perez gave up the only 3 runs the Twins allowed and was awarded the win. Harper pitched a scoreless inning but I guess was somehow determined less effective than Perez. Pineda was the most effective pitcher this day but the scorer couldn’t choose him.

 

In an away game Hildenberger pitched 1/3 of an inning to finish the fifth for Gibson. He was awarded the win for his 1/3 inning. May pitched a scoreless full inning but I guess was deemed less effective than Hildenberger.

 

In an away game Duffey finished the fifth for Berrios and had a clean 6th inning. This was the game that Austin Adams blew hitters away for 2 innings striking out 4 though he must have been less effective than Duffey who was credited with the win.

 

In every case the reliever completing the 5th inning was awarded the win. In each of these cases I think there is a lot clearer argument that another pitcher was more effective.

 

Thorpe and Duffey were critical to yesterday’s win. Unless it is so clear that Thorpe was much more effective Duffey should have had that win.