Real baseball

[prouster]

The thing about phrases like “real baseball” and “generational player” is that they mean whatever the speaker wants them to mean. They’re imaginary categories that don’t have to correspond to any observable reality.

 

So, this debate has nowhere to go except in circles. As both statistics and observable reality say, Mauer was a great player. The Twins have been a good team this year. I’m not sure why the aesthetics of all that should matter.

[SwainZag]

 

Just because you play catcher does not mean you should be in the Hall of Fame for hitting 2100 hits and leading not even ONE team to a playoff series victory. Hall of Famers are team leaders. The most memorable playoff moment for Mauer is the double that he hit that was called foul. 

 

Mike Trout says what's up.  Been in the league for nearly a decade, the best player of this decade and seen the playoffs once and was swept out.  Baseball is very much a team sport. You have a disdain for Mauer, so this isn't worth pursuing.  

[twinsnorth49]

Just because you play catcher does not mean you should be in the Hall of Fame for hitting 2100 hits and leading not even ONE team to a playoff series victory. Hall of Famers are team leaders. The most memorable playoff moment for Mauer is the double that he hit that was called foul.

I'd say his most memorable moment was being named MVP while accomplishing many firsts for an American League catcher. Your opinion of Mauer is clearly biased and your markers for success are not consistent with many players in the Hall. His 7-8 year peak period is definitely HOF worthy, quite easily.

[ashbury]

I should say, "but in the end, Baines SHOULDN'T be a Hall of Famer."

Yeah, before you get a ton of replies like this.

 

[Only Here in Negative]

 

"At least Sano is looking like he wants to attempt real baseball. Excellent approach at the plate tonight for him."

 

I know this was about Saturday's game which the Twins lost. In the game yesterday Sano was 0-5 with 6 lob and 2 ks.

 

As far as Mauer in the HOF, Max Kepler has already had more walk-offs and "difference maker" games than Mauer ever dreamed about.

 

Oh! Now I know why Scott Brosius is in the Hall of Fame! We decide it based on walk-offs!

 

Baseball is a team game. Mauer's TEAMS underperformed in the playoffs. Ernie Banks never even made the playoffs.

[Only Here in Negative]

 

Mauer took the first pitch almost always. As a result, the pitcher almost always threw the first pitch down the middle for a strike. To me, that had to be the stupidest strategy that I have ever seen any MLB player take in the history of the game. Had Mauer swung at first pitches, there's no question he would have gotten at least 500 more hits in his career. To the other poster, there is no way that Mauer gets in the Hall of Fame. A Hall of Fame player is a generational player, not a player that dominates for 4 or 5 years. If Mauer gets in, then the Hall of Fame is a joke. 

 

Mauer took the first pitch almost always. As a result, the pitcher almost always threw the first pitch down the middle for a strike. To me, that had to be the stupidest strategy that I have ever seen any MLB player take in the history of the game. Had Mauer swung at first pitches, there's no question he would have gotten at least 500 more hits in his career. To the other poster, there is no way that Mauer gets in the Hall of Fame. A Hall of Fame player is a generational player, not a player that dominates for 4 or 5 years. If Mauer gets in, then the Hall of Fame is a joke. 

 

Mauer's career first pitch strike percentage was 55.4%. The MLB average is around 57%. So contrary to your completely made up stance, even though Mauer only swung at a first pitch 9.6% of the time (compared to a league average of 27.6%), pitchers still threw him balls on the first pitch at an above average rate.

 

Does it bother you that you posit theories that are so easily shot down by anyone who bothers to actually look it up? Like Tom destroyed your "The Twins don't take enough pitches" theory and so you pivoted to Mauer and it turns out that's made up too. Does it bother you? Does it make you pause and think about your approach to life and this site? Or is it just full speed ahead? Honestly interested. I've been called out on here before and slunk off with my tail between my legs. It seemed like the natural response but maybe not?

[Only Here in Negative]

 

Lets take a different approach at this. Lets get the numbers from our first full series in June. ( not the TB one) up until this past Sunday and look. Because from there the As and Cleveland have been improving and the Twins and been declining. Im curious how those numbers look since then. 

 

Perhaps you should look them up rather than just being curious?

 

I imagine they're not much different. This argument never made any sense. It reminds me of my college roommate's father. Every time they played games he'd keep track of rolls to show how the dice were favoring or not favoring him. Only issue was he routinely forgot to mark when they were in his favor. So every game the dice were against him.

 

Moral: If you saw something in three games over a weekend and then extrapolate this to a definitive statement about the whole season, you're probably going to be spewing biased nonsense.

[Only Here in Negative]

 

I'd say his most memorable moment was being named MVP while accomplishing many firsts for an American League catcher. Your opinion of Mauer is clearly biased and your markers for success are not consistent with many players in the Hall. His 7-8 year peak period is definitely HOF worthy, quite easily.

 

Agreed. Not first ballot but I think he gets in Year 3 or 4. The lack of a clearly superior catcher during his playing career helps. Posey looked like he might be better and take some of the shine off Mauer but he's faced his own injury issues. Yadier Molina is likely better all around due to his longevity but that's really it for catcher comparisons (and even then it's a fun debate: Molina's durability vs. Mauer's peak).

 

Mauer will get in. Hopefully the haters have the decency to quietly disagree. Probably not. Sigh.

[tarheeltwinsfan]

 

Wrongly, I might add. It's just a wonder that so many teams did not catch on to that. If the history of baseball has proven anything it is that being patient and being able to make a pitcher really, really work for every single out is the tried and true approach to good, fundamental hitting.

Where's Joe Mauer when we need him?

[KFEY93]

 

Perhaps you should look them up rather than just being curious?

 

I imagine they're not much different. This argument never made any sense. It reminds me of my college roommate's father. Every time they played games he'd keep track of rolls to show how the dice were favoring or not favoring him. Only issue was he routinely forgot to mark when they were in his favor. So every game the dice were against him.

 

Moral: If you saw something in three games over a weekend and then extrapolate this to a definitive statement about the whole season, you're probably going to be spewing biased nonsense.

This is not a one weekend observation friend. This is getting close to a two month observation and downfall. Their record since my time stated shows that. I no longer care about April and May. Its what have you done for me lately? Lately we've been playing like a bottom of the league team and im worried that that is going to become the norm. That dice analogy holds no relevance to what I am asking for. 

[ahart10]

Hunt your pitch until it’s time for the classic two strike approach.

[Pius Jefferson]

 

Yeah, before you get a ton of replies like this.

 

 

That makes him even less deserving. 

[Number3]

 

Ernie Banks called for you.

Banks 2583/512/1636

Mauer 2123/143/943

 

Plus, Joe Mauer never said, "Let's play 2". He usually said "I played yesterday, do I have to play today since its a day game?"

[twinsnorth49]

I should have put odds on this becoming a Mauer thread.

 

I'd be rich.

[SwainZag]

 

Banks 2583/512/1636

Mauer 2123/143/943

 

Plus, Joe Mauer never said, "Let's play 2". He usually said "I played yesterday, do I have to play today since its a day game?"

 

Since they are both Catchers this holds a lot of weight, right?  Oh wait...

[Platoon]

"At least Sano is looking like he wants to attempt real baseball. Excellent approach at the plate tonight for him."

 

I know this was about Saturday's game which the Twins lost. In the game yesterday Sano was 0-5 with 6 lob and 2 ks.

 

As far as Mauer in the HOF, Max Kepler has already had more walk-offs and "difference maker" games than Mauer ever dreamed about.

Not sure about others on here, but a "difference maker" could also be construed as someone who was not only one of, it not, the best defensive catcher of of his era, but a three time batting champion. For years, not several games. Try asking a veteran MLB pitcher this question: Mauer? Kepler? Game on the line!