Real baseball

[Bandit34]

Did anyone else notice how each A's batter takes at least 6 or 7 pitches to be out, if they are out? Or how about clutch hitting situations? This, my friends, is real baseball. Real baseball is making that pitcher battle for every single out in the game. As far as I am concerned, the only hitter in our lineup that is a hardballer right now is Luis Arraez. The relentlessness of the A's lineup makes even me tired, watching from my easy chair. Can't imagine how much it tires out our pitching. Our hitters need to come up with a new approach. At least Sano is looking like he wants to attempt real baseball. Excellent approach at the plate tonight for him. 

[jz7233]

Garver and Marvin should be more patient at the plate when RISP. It only took 3 pitches to get 3 outs from them. Garver should try to avoid DP by not hitting any pitch low.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

In April and May, the Twins were attacking the first pitch, if I recall correctly.

[Bandit34]

 

In April and May, the Twins were attacking the first pitch, if I recall correctly.

Wrongly, I might add. It's just a wonder that so many teams did not catch on to that. If the history of baseball has proven anything it is that being patient and being able to make a pitcher really, really work for every single out is the tried and true approach to good, fundamental hitting.

[Bandit34]

Making a pitcher throw 10 pitches rattles him. I have seen many times already where Arraez will make a pitcher throw pitch after pitch after pitch and after the at-bat the pitcher has lost his edge. 

[Bandit34]

Now, on the other hand, what Joe Mauer did in ALWAYS taking the first pitch was also extremely stupid and is probably one of the greatest reasons why he will not be in the Hall of Fame. 

[Reider]

Luis Arraez has definitely been battling, he has a great eye at the plate and it seems like Sano has been too lately (battling), but I think that has a lot to do with pitchers not wanting to throw him any cookies and missing by more than they should be. Id' rather see Sano draw a walk than strike out, that's for sure.

[Bandit34]

 

Luis Arraez has definitely been battling, he has a great eye at the plate and it seems like Sano has been too lately (battling), but I think that has a lot to do with pitchers not wanting to throw him any cookies and missing by more than they should be. Id' rather see Sano draw a walk than strike out, that's for sure.

To be honest, I am more encouraged when Sano walks than even when he hits a home run. If this guy EVER figures out pitches and the strike zone, he will become a force to be reckoned with. If he starts hitting the ball the other way for doubles, I will also be very happy. One thing is for certain: Sano will either go down in history as Butch Huskey Jr. or a fearsome, great hitter. Today was the most encouraged I have been this season with Sano.

[Badsmerf]

I love this thread. These guys need to learn that baseball is played dirty, with tobacco, and without underwear. Why wash your uniform? Bunting is a lost science, good teams need to bunt. I haven't seen a good ole hit n run either, no way can they get to the pennant without guys knowing a hit n run. I'm sick of this new school, hittin home runs, takin walks, pansy baseball. Get back to the fundamentals.

[Platoon]

Taking Garver as an example: In the first inning it looks like he sat on, and ambushed his pitch early in the count ala Dozier. Result, HR. Someone throws you a cookie early and you are actually looking for it, then hit it. Otherwise you are reduced to waiting for a walk or two pitching mistakes in the same AB. Garvers last AB: not good situational hitting. Maybe he was trying to ambush a first pitch FB, since it was expected with the bases loaded. While he got one, it was a pitchers pitch, down and away a little. He hit it hard, but tried to pull it. Result, DP. The philosophy on both AB's was sound. He just was not selective enough. In the ninth, he needed a ball up in the zone for at least a fly ball. Just simply running up pitches per AB is not the answer,to every AB. Or hitter!

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Wrongly, I might add. It's just a wonder that so many teams did not catch on to that. If the history of baseball has proven anything it is that being patient and being able to make a pitcher really, really work for every single out is the tried and true approach to good, fundamental hitting.

Actually, you are wrong here. They went hard after the first couple pitches earlier on in the season. The flip side is that I think the league has adjusted and they are getting a whole lot less show me fastballs down the middle or whatever you want to call it.

 

I think you're right to the extent that fording pitchers to earn that out is a good thing... and in those leverage situations, forcing the pitcher to throw a good pitch is the right answer... though I would simply say (not having seen it) that if the pitcher was throwing strikes, what else was Garver supposed to do? 

[Rosterman]

Arrae\z would be the perfect leadoff batter. Letting the people behind him see the pitcher throw 8-10 pitches and get a handle on the umpire.

 

Moneyball. Make the pitcher throw strikes. At what point that happens is a guess. Some pitchers throw strikes right out of the chute, then start being shifty. Or vcie versa. Sometimes it doesn't hurt to take pithes. Sano should take the first two pitches on half of his at bats, no matter how good or bad...just to see.

 

 

[Tom Froemming]

The A's were very tough last night and took some extended plate appearances. But, here's how things shake out over the entire series so far:

 

OAK: 422 pitches to 110 batters (3.836/batter faced)

MIN: 456 pitches to 119 batters (3.832/batter faced)

[Bandit34]

I would be interested in seeing just how many of those pitches were thrown to Arraez! A LOT! Plus Sano has actually started to look like a Major League hitter in this series as well. The others have had a disastrous series. 

[Tom Froemming]

 

I would be interested in seeing just how many of those pitches were thrown to Arraez! A LOT! Plus Sano has actually started to look like a Major League hitter in this series as well. The others have had a disastrous series. 

Correct. Luis Arraez saw ...

 

20 pitches in 4 PAs Thursday

14 pitches in 4 PAs Friday

26 pitches in 3 PAs Saturday

 

So that's 5.45 pitches/PA. Polanco (4.67) and Sano (4.42) have also been putting together some extended PAs. Oddly enough, one of the most patient guys on the team has been ultra aggressive this series.  Marwin Gonzalez is only averaging 2.67 pitches/PA so far.

 

Of course, the opposing pitcher has a great deal of influence in these numbers. The hitters can only impact this so much, at a certain point you have to take what you're given.

[ashbury]

Did anyone else notice how each A's batter takes at least 6 or 7 pitches to be out, if they are out?

Maybe in one game. For the season, the A's are averaging 3.94 pitches per plate appearance, just a smidgen above MLB average 3.92. Our Twins are indeed a bit lower at 3.81. Something they could work on.

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/MLB/2019-pitches-batting.shtml

 

I don't have a handy way to convert that to pitches per out (especially the "if they are out" part ), but I doubt it changes the relative rankings very much.

[SwainZag]

Meh when it fits your narrative go with it right? Rosario hit his 3-run HR on the 1st pitch the other night.  If Garver would have put that ball in the gap, this thread wouldn't be a thing.

 

Also, to the OP, Mauer taking the 1st pitch is the greatest reason he won't be in the HOF?  I would love to hear you back that up.  If you can convince me that is the reasons and not concussions and resulting symptoms,  be my guest.

[GCTF]

 

I love this thread. These guys need to learn that baseball is played dirty, with tobacco, and without underwear. Why wash your uniform? Bunting is a lost science, good teams need to bunt. I haven't seen a good ole hit n run either, no way can they get to the pennant without guys knowing a hit n run. I'm sick of this new school, hittin home runs, takin walks, pansy baseball. Get back to the fundamentals.

Thank you for taking time out from managin' the Tigers to post here. 

[yarnivek1972]

Meh when it fits your narrative go with it right? Rosario hit his 3-run HR on the 1st pitch the other night. If Garver would have put that ball in the gap, this thread wouldn't be a thing.

 

Also, to the OP, Mauer taking the 1st pitch is the greatest reason he won't be in the HOF? I would love to hear you back that up. If you can convince me that is the reasons and not concussions and resulting symptoms, be my guest.

If Mauer had been forced to retire after 2013 because of his concussions, he would have been a slam dunk first ballot HOFer. And that is why he’ll get in. Because the voters aren’t stupid. They know what he had to deal with.

 

He may not be first ballot, but he will definitely get in. I’d say between years 3 and 5.

[Bandit34]

 

Meh when it fits your narrative go with it right? Rosario hit his 3-run HR on the 1st pitch the other night.  If Garver would have put that ball in the gap, this thread wouldn't be a thing.

 

Also, to the OP, Mauer taking the 1st pitch is the greatest reason he won't be in the HOF?  I would love to hear you back that up.  If you can convince me that is the reasons and not concussions and resulting symptoms,  be my guest.

Mauer took the first pitch almost always. As a result, the pitcher almost always threw the first pitch down the middle for a strike. To me, that had to be the stupidest strategy that I have ever seen any MLB player take in the history of the game. Had Mauer swung at first pitches, there's no question he would have gotten at least 500 more hits in his career. To the other poster, there is no way that Mauer gets in the Hall of Fame. A Hall of Fame player is a generational player, not a player that dominates for 4 or 5 years. If Mauer gets in, then the Hall of Fame is a joke. 

[yarnivek1972]

Mauer took the first pitch almost always. As a result, the pitcher almost always threw the first pitch down the middle for a strike. To me, that had to be the stupidest strategy that I have ever seen any MLB player take in the history of the game. Had Mauer swung at first pitches, there's no question he would have gotten at least 500 more hits in his career. To the other poster, there is no way that Mauer gets in the Hall of Fame. A Hall of Fame player is a generational player, not a player that dominates for 4 or 5 years. If Mauer gets in, then the Hall of Fame is a joke.

Generational players like

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/f/ferreri01.shtml

 

 

PS: Mauer put the first pitch in play in almost 400 plate appearances. That’s not counting times he swung and missed or hit a foul ball.

 

And suggesting that Mauer would have gotten “at least” 500 more hits swinging at the first pitch is just absurd. Pitchers and coaches make adjustments. Mauer hit over .300 for his career with a 124 OPS+. Hall of Famer Derek Jeter had a 115 OPS +. Hall of Famer Johnny Bench had a 126 OPS +.

[Number3]

"At least Sano is looking like he wants to attempt real baseball. Excellent approach at the plate tonight for him."

 

I know this was about Saturday's game which the Twins lost. In the game yesterday Sano was 0-5 with 6 lob and 2 ks.

 

As far as Mauer in the HOF, Max Kepler has already had more walk-offs and "difference maker" games than Mauer ever dreamed about.

[SwainZag]

 

"At least Sano is looking like he wants to attempt real baseball. Excellent approach at the plate tonight for him."

 

I know this was about Saturday's game which the Twins lost. In the game yesterday Sano was 0-5 with 6 lob and 2 ks.

 

As far as Mauer in the HOF, Max Kepler has already had more walk-offs and "difference maker" games than Mauer ever dreamed about.

 

Max might have more walk offs, but difference maker games?  JFC people have short memories around here.

[twinsnorth49]

 

Mauer took the first pitch almost always. As a result, the pitcher almost always threw the first pitch down the middle for a strike. To me, that had to be the stupidest strategy that I have ever seen any MLB player take in the history of the game. Had Mauer swung at first pitches, there's no question he would have gotten at least 500 more hits in his career. To the other poster, there is no way that Mauer gets in the Hall of Fame. A Hall of Fame player is a generational player, not a player that dominates for 4 or 5 years. If Mauer gets in, then the Hall of Fame is a joke. 

Harold Baines "Generational Player". 

 

 

[KFEY93]

 

The A's were very tough last night and took some extended plate appearances. But, here's how things shake out over the entire series so far:

 

OAK: 422 pitches to 110 batters (3.836/batter faced)

MIN: 456 pitches to 119 batters (3.832/batter faced)

Lets take a different approach at this. Lets get the numbers from our first full series in June. ( not the TB one) up until this past Sunday and look. Because from there the As and Cleveland have been improving and the Twins and been declining. Im curious how those numbers look since then. 

[Dman]

Baseball is a bit of chess match for pitcher and hitter.  The pitcher wants to get ahead in the count so that they don't have to throw a strike to get strike three.  The hitter wants to get ahead so that the pitcher has to throw strikes across the plate.  To avoid a pitcher feeling comfortable throwing first pitch strikes you have to swing at first pitch strikes and get hits preferably HR's to keep a pitcher from being too aggressive or you might need to take first pitch strikes that are pitchers pitches and tough to put in play.  Both sides are trying to be as unpredictable as possible while achieving the result that benefits them. 

Personally I think the Twins approach is pretty sound, they simply swing at strikes.  They generally don't strike out much relative to the rest of the league and they are unpredictable in their swing patterns especially on first pitch strikes.  I think as a pitcher you have to be very careful with first pitch strikes against the Twins.  They will swing at strikes in the zone no matter what the count is. 

 

I think swinging early in the count realy worked well for this team early in the year but I think that that teams have caught on now and while they are throwing first pitch strikes they are more targeted to a batters weakness.  I feel that is somewhat why The Turtle started having a tougher time after being hot to start to the year.  He could still hit the ball but by not waiting for a better pitch he made it harder to get hits.

 

I agree long at bats are demoralizing for pitchers and have a tendancy to break pitchers down but it is not easy to have long at bats especially if you are getting good enough contact to put the ball in play.  A hitter has to swing at strikes at some point or he is out on strikes.  It is a tough game on both sides of the ball.

 

Would I like to Twins hitters be a bit more patient?  Yes, yes I would.  Would I miss those 1st pitch home runs?  Yes, yes I would.  I think for the most part I am satisfied with there approach for now.

[Bandit34]

 

Harold Baines "Generational Player". 

For the record, Harold Baines was not a generational player. Really good player, yes. Probably the one hitter in all baseball that I dreaded seeing come up against the Twins. Will Clark, (with the Rangers), and Harold Baines were the two players that I would say, "uh-oh" when they came up to bat against the Twins. But in the end, neither Baines or Clark are Hall of Famers. Mauer simply did not have a legendary career. And legendary is what it OUGHT to take to be a Hall of Famer. 

[Bandit34]

I should say, "but in the end, Baines SHOULDN'T be a Hall of Famer."

[Bandit34]

Just because you play catcher does not mean you should be in the Hall of Fame for hitting 2100 hits and leading not even ONE team to a playoff series victory. Hall of Famers are team leaders. The most memorable playoff moment for Mauer is the double that he hit that was called foul. 

[yarnivek1972]

Just because you play catcher does not mean you should be in the Hall of Fame for hitting 2100 hits and leading not even ONE team to a playoff series victory. Hall of Famers are team leaders. The most memorable playoff moment for Mauer is the double that he hit that was called foul.

Ernie Banks called for you.