4-1!

[TheLeviathan]

Yeah, Adrian is clearly getting more passes his way, what I don't like in the offense in the redzone is typified by one play to me. I can't remember which of the three opening field goal drives it was, but Ponder threw a slant to Aromoshadu out of the back of the endzone. It was incomplete but he literally took no time to look at his options, threw it to an inferior player who was covered (maybe even double covered if I remember right) and basically wasted a down. I love the way they are using Harvin, improving the quantity of looks for Peterson and Rudolph, and balancing the running formations. But good god do they need to get better in the redzone, it's like Percy and Adrian stop existing for some reason.

[Badsmerf]

I agree with the redzone problems. I felt like Ponder was completely worthless. Defenses will give you throws of 10 yards and under all day. I dislike the way he plays the game. He is a dink and dunk passer. He walks a thin line. He doesn't do enough to win games by himself, but a bad game and he can lose one. Offenses start with the QB. Look at how Manning and Rogers dissect defenses at the line. Manning doesn't have a great receiver core now but still finds people open. Even when Favre was here he was able to do this and put cash in Sydney Rice's bank account because of it. A new receiver is only going to give Ponder options, I doubt he would ever take advantage of them.

[DaveW]

It's a little silly to compare Ponder to Manning and Rodgers, who are two of the better QB's of the past 20 years.... but for the record Manning was pretty mediocre his first 16 starts in the league, and Rodgers was able to sit 3 years on the bench before he was ever called upon. I'm not saying Ponder is ever going to be elite or anything close, but lets give him some time to learn and adjust.

[DaveW]

  TheLeviathan said:

Yeah, Adrian is clearly getting more passes his way, what I don't like in the offense in the redzone is typified by one play to me. I can't remember which of the three opening field goal drives it was, but Ponder threw a slant to Aromoshadu out of the back of the endzone. It was incomplete but he literally took no time to look at his options, threw it to an inferior player who was covered (maybe even double covered if I remember right) and basically wasted a down. I love the way they are using Harvin, improving the quantity of looks for Peterson and Rudolph, and balancing the running formations. But good god do they need to get better in the redzone, it's like Percy and Adrian stop existing for some reason.

If the Vikes are inside the ten there is no reason why Peterson shouldn't touch the ball at least 2 of the 3 downs...none at all. (unless the other 2 are going to Harvin in some fashion)

 

It just would be nice to have a Plaxico type guy you could throw a jump ball to down in that area as well, to help spread out the defense. I don't think Rudolph, Aroshmondu or Jenkins are scaring many teams, and Harvin as great as he is just doesn't have the size for one of those type of plays.

[TheLeviathan]

Rudolph is a better jump ball target than some washed up guy. Part of the problem isn't that Rudolph can't do it - he's actually a fantastic weapon for that - the problem is teams seem to realize we use Harvin as a decoy and not a weapon in the redzone and overprotect against Rudolph.

[DaveW]

  TheLeviathan said:

Rudolph is a better jump ball target than some washed up guy. Part of the problem isn't that Rudolph can't do it - he's actually a fantastic weapon for that - the problem is teams seem to realize we use Harvin as a decoy and not a weapon in the redzone and overprotect against Rudolph.

 

Yeah that's true.

 

The playcalling in the red zone has prob been the biggest issue. Regardless, this team really could use another WR, Simpson's health is to iffy to rely on him and everyone else is closer to a #3/#4.

 

I wonder if we could get Bowe for a 3rd or 4th round pick since he is about to be a FA and the Chiefs are awful. Would that be worth exploring?

[TheLeviathan]

  SpiritofVodkaDave said:

I wonder if we could get Bowe for a 3rd or 4th round pick since he is about to be a FA and the Chiefs are awful. Would that be worth exploring?

 

I'd consider it. Bowe is a bit of a headcase, but he's got tremendous physical talent. I'm not a big fan of moving picks on a team that is young and still building, but Bowe has certainly got plenty of tread on the tires. I'd probably stick with just a third for him though.

[Willihammer]

I am glad Musgrave isn't calling for ponder to throw downfield more often. He is too skiddish to stand in a collapsing pocket and wait for guys to get through their routes, and take one on the chin after letting it fly. I think if you start asking him to do that, you're going to see a lot more fumbles and interceptions from him. He's a scrambler and I don't think mid-season is a great time to try and break a guy of those instincts.

[TheLeviathan]

Once again we win with just about zero help from our QB. Not good.

[DaveW]

Ponder looked like dog **** today, but some of the play calling was head scratching to say the least...

 

The secondary was damn impressive today though!

[johnnydakota]

  SpiritofVodkaDave said:

Ponder looked like dog **** today, but some of the play calling was head scratching to say the least...

 

The secondary was damn impressive today though!

what do you think the vikings record will be this year?

[johnnydakota]

  Badsmerf said:

I agree with the redzone problems. I felt like Ponder was completely worthless. Defenses will give you throws of 10 yards and under all day. I dislike the way he plays the game. He is a dink and dunk passer. He walks a thin line. He doesn't do enough to win games by himself, but a bad game and he can lose one. Offenses start with the QB. Look at how Manning and Rogers dissect defenses at the line. Manning doesn't have a great receiver core now but still finds people open. Even when Favre was here he was able to do this and put cash in Sydney Rice's bank account because of it. A new receiver is only going to give Ponder options, I doubt he would ever take advantage of them.

i think you need to start looking hard at ponder after he has 18-20 starts to see what you really have in him as a quaterback.

but yes he so far doesnt appear to be a cebrial quaterback

[DaveW]

  johnnydakota said:

  SpiritofVodkaDave said:

Ponder looked like dog **** today, but some of the play calling was head scratching to say the least...

 

The secondary was damn impressive today though!

what do you think the vikings record will be this year?

 

Thursday against TB is a win, and home vs Det is a win, which means we should be at least 7-3 going into our last 6 games.

I think 10-6 is where we end up, maybe 11-5

[Willihammer]

They are going to have to do better on third down. 35% for the year, 1/10 yesterday. Thank god we have Kluwe I guess.

[Thor]

I already took a guess at the record but it requires a lot of Kool-Aid to see my guess coming true. Defense is better than I thought it would be and special teams are great, Adrian is better than I though he would be but the offense, well it damn well better be a work in progress because it is poor even considering our lack of talent in some spots. Ponder has to get better and the play calling has to get more aggressive or we are going to go through a stretch of years where we are 8-10 wins and drafting at the last 1/2 of the round.

[TheLeviathan]

The issue isn't weapons, we have to get over that. Right now if you could pick any pair of skill players off of any team in the league.....is there anyone you'd pick over Peterson-Harvin? Maybe Andre Johnson-Foster or Jones-Roddy White?

 

Honestly, I'll take our guys. So let's stop with that excuse Vikings fans, Ponder just isn't getting it done.

[Thor]

We do lack talent at the #1 and#2 receiver position(Percy is a slot guy) Right side of the line and very possibly talent at play calling but like I said Ponder damn well better be a work in progress because if his ceiling is 20% better than he is now that is poor. If it is 40-60% higher than his average play this year then I look foreward to seeing him play when he gets there.

[DaveW]

The thing Ponder needs to learn the most is "throw the ball away" he tries to do to much at times ala Farve, if he can cut down on the stupid throwing across your body INT's then this team is in good shape moving forward. This defense is legit, the only thing that can/will kill us its turnovers on our side of the field.

[TheLeviathan]

  Thor said:

We do lack talent at the #1 and#2 receiver position(Percy is a slot guy) Right side of the line and very possibly talent at play calling but like I said Ponder damn well better be a work in progress because if his ceiling is 20% better than he is now that is poor. If it is 40-60% higher than his average play this year then I look foreward to seeing him play when he gets there.

 

Who has been playing outside for the Patriots? Deion Branch is a fine player, but he's no world beater. You can do just fine with the talent the Vikes have - it could be better, but the fault lies primarily with the QB.

[DaveW]

  TheLeviathan said:

Who has been playing outside for the Patriots? Deion Branch is a fine player, but he's no world beater. You can do just fine with the talent the Vikes have - it could be better, but the fault lies primarily with the QB.

Patriots: 4-3 (BARELY)

Vikings: 5-2

 

haha

 

We do need better QB play not doubt, but more weapons wouldn't hurt...

[Badsmerf]

He already has 17 starts.... so I'm not sure what the ceiling is on him yet, but we sure haven't seen much to say "he's got it." The final book isn't written on him yet, but things aren't looking too good. Despite the good record, the Vikes have to play GB, the Bears, DET again and I don't see them winning any of those games. They don't have the offense to stay with elite teams.

[DaveW]

  Badsmerf said:

He already has 17 starts.... so I'm not sure what the ceiling is on him yet, but we sure haven't seen much to say "he's got it." The final book isn't written on him yet, but things aren't looking too good. Despite the good record, the Vikes have to play GB, the Bears, DET again and I don't see them winning any of those games. They don't have the offense to stay with elite teams.

What are you talking about? You don't think we can beat Detroit at home? Give me a break.

 

The Bears have a pretty weak offense IMO, we can beat them either game as long as Ponder doesn't turn the ball over (which is asking quite a bit these days) Packers @ home should be competitive as well, they have a good number of flaws.

[TheLeviathan]

  SpiritofVodkaDave said:

What are you talking about? You don't think we can beat Detroit at home? Give me a break.

 

The Bears have a pretty weak offense IMO, we can beat them either game as long as Ponder doesn't turn the ball over (which is asking quite a bit these days) Packers @ home should be competitive as well, they have a good number of flaws.

 

Watching them flounder against the Bucs at home on a short rest week even going to dent this stupid take? Hell, their best plays have been "throw it up and pray" moves that have worked two out of three times.

[DaveW]

  TheLeviathan said:

  SpiritofVodkaDave said:

What are you talking about? You don't think we can beat Detroit at home? Give me a break.

 

The Bears have a pretty weak offense IMO, we can beat them either game as long as Ponder doesn't turn the ball over (which is asking quite a bit these days) Packers @ home should be competitive as well, they have a good number of flaws.

 

Watching them flounder against the Bucs at home on a short rest week even going to dent this stupid take? Hell, their best plays have been "throw it up and pray" moves that have worked two out of three times.

The whole team looks awful tonight, the defense has totally forgotten how to tackle and Peterson had a rare fumble. Hopefully they can get back in this game.

 

Ponder has been iffy, but his deep throws have for the most part been pretty accurate.

[DaveW]

The O-Line and front 7 have been terrible, hopefully this is just an issue of conditioning/short week and not a sign of things to come.

[TheLeviathan]

  SpiritofVodkaDave said:

The whole team looks awful tonight, the defense has totally forgotten how to tackle and Peterson had a rare fumble. Hopefully they can get back in this game.

 

Ponder has been iffy, but his deep throws have for the most part been pretty accurate.

 

It's the same defensive players from last year but one really (Smith), so this shouldn't be a shock. The offense has been terrible - one broken run and one nice throw to Harvin and that's about it. He's throwing floaters, locking in on receivers, and doing little to recognize hot reads on blitzes. The defense has been on the field for what feels like forever since the second half of Arizona.

 

It's ridiculous to suggest that anything with this team is a lock when the offense is this inept. And, like the broadcast has been saying - it features two of the best skill players in the league and it still can't get traction.

[TheLeviathan]

Over a quarter in and Ponder looks god awful again. Harvin had an easy six with a decently thrown ball and he couldn't deliver. All of his roll-out throws have been erratic and he's had a ton of time. He's a failure people, let's accept it.

[Badsmerf]

Wish I could watch the game. I wonder if Leslie is going to burn with Ponder. How can anyone stand to watch a QB play so terrible? He has no place starting in this league.

[johnnydakota]

yes 19 game starter ponder was out played by seattle rookie wilson , i question not bring in joe web ?

[TheLeviathan]

At least all the Ponder excuse-makers are starting to back-pedal.