Angie Valeria

[ewen21]

The conversation was discussing examples of religious accommodations in America, then you pivoted to Christian in Egypt. Unlike America, Egypt has an official religion, which would make Christianity a "foreign" religion.

I was wondering if you were implying that only "foreign" religions shouldn't expect accommodations. It wasn't accusatory, I was just asking you to clarify if that was your intention or not.

I honestly had no idea what you were talking about and when I said I didn't follow you. I still don't.

[Mr. Brooks]

I honestly had no idea what you were talking about and when I said I didn't follow you. I still don't.

You stated that a Christian in Egypt shouldn't expect special accommodations.

I'm asking if you think a Christian in America should get special accommodations.

[ewen21]

You stated that a Christian in Egypt shouldn't expect special accommodations.

I'm asking if you think a Christian in America should get special accommodations.

Are we talking about days off from school/work? You are using a very broad term: "accommodations" and if you want me answer please tell me what's under that umbrella because I don't understand what you mean unless you provide specific examples. Accommodations is a word used in education quite a bit and one is required to define what the accommodations are so to discuss them point by point. WHAT "accommodations" are you asking me to address?

I will answer you if you name several specific examples of what you mean. Simple as that.

 

You conceded earlier (with some trepidation) that you agreed with me on a major point. Now it appears you are poking around to find areas where we might not agree and that is fine, but before I answer your question you will need to lay out specifics. I am also wondering this....why should Christians expect any more "accommodations"? Does that match up with you attitude? I bet it does and I feel as Christians we have all the room we need to observe days of worship on our own terms.

 

What grievances should I have as a Christian in regards to time off from work? I have none and if someone else has them and they want to keep their child out of school see what I said about Muslims earlier: Observe your holiday and keep your child home. These absences are protected legitimate absences

 

Why can't we just agree and move on? Seems like you actually feel dirty agreeing with me and you would rather leave the conversation feeling like you proved me wrong on some point. That isn't going to happen here. You are walking into what I consider to be my domain and what you said earlier about the workplace not being a place of worship is pretty much a reflection of what I feel.

 

We good?

I tried

[Mr. Brooks]

Are we talking about days off from school/work? You are using a very broad term: "accommodations" and if you want me answer please tell me what's under that umbrella because I don't understand what you mean unless you provide specific examples. Accommodations is a word used in education quite a bit and one is required to define what the accommodations are so to discuss them point by point. WHAT "accommodations" are you asking me to address?

I will answer you if you name several specific examples of what you mean. Simple as that.

 

You conceded earlier (with some trepidation) that you agreed with me on a major point. Now it appears you are poking around to find areas where we might not agree and that is fine, but before I answer your question you will need to lay out specifics. I am also wondering this....why should Christians expect any more "accommodations"? Does that match up with you attitude? I bet it does and I feel as Christians we have all the room we need to observe days of worship on our own terms.

 

What grievances should I have as a Christian in regards to time off from work? I have none and if someone else has them and they want to keep their child out of school see what I said about Muslims earlier: Observe your holiday and keep your child home. These absences are protected legitimate absences

 

Why can't we just agree and move on? Seems like you actually feel dirty agreeing with me and you would rather leave the conversation feeling like you proved me wrong on some point. That isn't going to happen here. You are walking into what I consider to be my domain and what you said earlier about the workplace not being a place of worship is pretty much a reflection of what I feel.

 

We good?

I tried

There was no trepidation whatsoever.

I went back and reread my post where I agreed with you, and couldn't find anything that would even lead a reasonable person to suspect that there was any trepidation, there was absolutely none.

 

I'm also not "poking around" to find disagreement. I thought I made that extremely clear in a previous post where I explicitly said it wasn't accusatory, simply seeking clarification of a single sentence statement.

 

You spent a considerable amount of the above quoted post attempting to decide my intentions, even though I made them clear myself, and attempted to assign motives that were nowhere in my posts.

 

Sorry Ewen, I once again made the mistake of trying to have an honest discussion with you.

That's my fault for going back to that well when I knew better.

It pains me, because there are very few dissenting views here, so I'd really like to have some to engage with.

I will no longer respond to any of your posts, I ask politely that you please do not respond to any of mine.

[ewen21]

Yeah OK.

[MMMordabito]

 

Agreed. I do think test can be adjusted for students though. If they are forthcoming about the absence and communicate, it shouldn't be a problem to adjust a test date for at least that student.

 

Completely agree.  In my son's case, the teacher moved the test date for the entire class to accommodate Ramadan for two students. We honestly wouldn't have cared, if it would have either A) been moved back instead of up or B ) been moved well in advance instead of just a few days.   I basically took it as virtue signaling from that teacher.  "Look at me and my equitable approach" (wait 2 vs. 22 isn't exactly equal)

[Doomtints]

We should not be locking up immigrants in concentration camps. It's a very small group of people who want this, and unfortunately they are in charge.

[ewen21]

 

We should not be locking up immigrants in concentration camps. It's a very small group of people who want this, and unfortunately they are in charge.

To call the detention centers "concentratation camps" is woefully inaccurate.  Concentration camps contain people who are rounded up to be detained.  These people come up of their own volition. The camps are overcrowded because of the sheer numbers of people coming to the border at once, not because they have been rounded up for some pernicious reason.

These Immigrants are trying to gain entry into the United States illegally. They walked right into it fully understanding that if they did not have documentation they would be detained.  They took that risk. We did not go down to their countries and remove them from their homes.  Can you acknowledge the distinction or what?

 

So when you say, "We should not be locking up immigrants in concentration camps" you are not accurately representing the situation.  ILLEGAL (yes they are) immigrants are being detained in crowded facilities BECAUSE we cannot accommodate such a massive migration of people.  These facilities are overcrowded not because of a pernicious agenda by the US government, but rather because record numbers of people are trying to enter this country without documentation.  We are not luring them here to put them in concentration camps to exploit them and torture them. 

 

The crazy thing to me about leftists when discussing this topic is that earlier in the year they were claiming this was a "manufactured crisis", but now they are saying we are rounding up people and putting them in concentration camps.  That is quite a leap to make and nowhere have I seen anyone say, "you know what?  I was wrong about calling this a manufactured crisis"

This stuff about "concentration camps" is Alex Jones-like sensationalism.  It is dressed up as a Latina when Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez does it so that might make it more palatable to some.   Not to me.

 

 

 

 

[Craig Arko]

A quick straw poll here: how many equate legality with morality?

[ewen21]

 

A quick straw poll here: how many equate legality with morality?

Not me.

 

[PseudoSABR]

 

To call the detention centers "concentratation camps" is woefully inaccurate.  Concentration camps contain people who are rounded up to be detained.  These people come up of their own volition. The camps are overcrowded because of the sheer numbers of people coming to the border at once, not because they have been rounded up for some pernicious reason.

These Immigrants are trying to gain entry into the United States illegally. They walked right into it fully understanding that if they did not have documentation they would be detained.  They took that risk. We did not go down to their countries and remove them from their homes.  Can you acknowledge the distinction or what?

 

So when you say, "We should not be locking up immigrants in concentration camps" you are not accurately representing the situation.  ILLEGAL (yes they are) immigrants are being detained in crowded facilities BECAUSE we cannot accommodate such a massive migration of people.  These facilities are overcrowded not because of a pernicious agenda by the US government, but rather because record numbers of people are trying to enter this country without documentation.  We are not luring them here to put them in concentration camps to exploit them and torture them. 

 

The crazy thing to me about leftists when discussing this topic is that earlier in the year they were claiming this was a "manufactured crisis", but now they are saying we are rounding up people and putting them in concentration camps.  That is quite a leap to make and nowhere have I seen anyone say, "you know what?  I was wrong about calling this a manufactured crisis"

This stuff about "concentration camps" is Alex Jones-like sensationalism.  It is dressed up as a Latina when Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez does it so that might make it more palatable to some.   Not to me.

They are concentration camps.  Live with it or do something about it.  It's shameful to split hairs, given the 'woeful' conditions these people are being housed in. 

 

Do you know that they are illegal immigrants as opposed to people seeking asylum, which is not illegal!? I bet you don't know.

[ewen21]

 

Do you know that they are illegal immigrants as opposed to people seeking asylum, which is not illegal!? I bet you don't know.

You do know to actually gain asylum there is a screening process which requires an I-589 be filled out, that credible fear must first be proven and that you have documentation that tells us you are who you say you are?  You do understand that a great number of people do not actually qualify for asylum?  That aa number of them are attempting to escape legal problems?  You do understand that an overwhelming number of these "asylum seekers"  haven't been providing documentation whatever reason?  You do understand they come up knowing full well they will be detained until these things can be determined/processed?  Do you also understand these facilities at our border (and this country) isn't set up to take in so many people at once?  That the system has been overwhelmed?  I am glad you no longer see this crisis as a fabrication on the part of the GOP.  I told you about this in March, man.

https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

 

 

But now, since you can no longer ward off reality the argument shifts to the conditions at detention centers.  According to you, these people are coming up, walking thousands of miles only to be held in "concentration camps".  Why would they WILLINGLY, KNOWLINGLY march to what you call "concentration camps" in record numbers only to be tortured by this pernicious system set up by Trump?  Honestly man. 

First it was a "manufactured crisis" and now you want to scream about appalling conditions in detention centers.  How about screaming about solutions?  When do we enter that phase?

But you cannot offer solutions if you refuse to be a three dimensional thinker.  You have not demonstrated the ability to do that on this issue....

 

Do you now understand that fake families are being set up?  Children are being as a commodity to circumvent a loophole.  Adults are being given children that aren't theirs (on the black market) to gain entry?  Thousands of children have separated from their families long before they reached the border. They were separated at their homeland.  In many cases they ran away or were kidnapped and we are left to sort it out.  Do you even acknowledge this issue exists or is this another "manufactured crisis"????

 

Before you start hurling around broad accusations please know what the heck you are talking about.  I am being serious.  READ from many sources and GET information from the agencies who do this stuff (whether you like them or not).  You omit so many essential realities in favor of broad accusations that point the blame ONLY on America and its racist ways.  This has been the case since this whole discussion started months ago.  

[gunnarthor]

I've basically been ignoring Ewen for obvious reasons. For anyone who is interested, the numbers he cites in that link are taken out of context to push a narrative that isn't true. We had a spike in apprehension at the boarder b/c policy changed, not b/c we had too many people arriving. That policy change is also the reason for many of the problems facing people on the boarder - to call them manufactured problems would be accurate since the policies enacted created these problems.  Incidentally, entries into the US have been declining at a great rate since 2012 or so. 

 

The rest of his post deals with straw men arguments that aren't really worth your time. The idea that family units are being faked is an old one - hell, Marisa Tomei's 1995 romantic comedy "The Perez Family" had that theme. While it's certainly possible that some individuals are claiming their nieces are their children, it wouldn't be in numbers big enough to matter. 

 

The idea of who should qualify for asylum and what should happen to them is an issue that Ewen is not informed enough to educate you on. How individuals seeking asylum are treated at the boarder is under furious litigation, with the ACLU constantly winning before the courts and pushing back on some of the evil policies this administration has pushed. Last week, for instance, they got an injunction against the AG's decision to prevent asylum applicants to receive bond. That policy change was created solely to keep asylum seekers in jail, in violation of our laws and immigrant rights. The courts have correctly stopped that. 

 

Generally, Ewen's posts seem like they have come off of VDARE or other website which don't tend to have the best reliability on this issue, while minimizing harm to immigrants and trying to focus on nonexistent problems/incidents to dehumanize people like Angie. That's why, when we see a dead child, we get responses blaming their parents and liberals or we get conspiracy theories about a migrant hoard and 'whataboutism' posts about gang members. 

 

[ewen21]

 

 

 

Generally, Ewen's posts seem like they have come off of VDARE or other website which don't tend to have the best reliability on this issue, while minimizing harm to immigrants and trying to focus on nonexistent problems/incidents to dehumanize people like Angie. That's why, when we see a dead child, we get responses blaming their parents and liberals or we get conspiracy theories about a migrant hoard and 'whataboutism' posts about gang members. 

If you are ignoring me then how do you even know what I said?  Since you mentioned me several times please identify the "non existent problems" I discussed in my last post.  Frankly, I think I am being "ignored" because you have no way to dispute most of the facts I just presented (which you did not read)

 

I choose not to ignore posts I don't agree with or like because I want to challenge them.  SABR seems OK with that so I will wait for his response.  I will be in the Adirondacks in a couple of hours floating on a lake by sundown.  

 

And please....It's BORDER, not boarder.

Get that right

[gunnarthor]

 

If you are ignoring me then how do you even know what I said?  Since you mentioned me several times please identify the "non existent problems" I discussed in my last post.  Frankly, I think I am being "ignored" because you have no way to dispute most of the facts I just presented (which you did not read)

 

I choose not to ignore posts I don't agree with or like because I want to challenge them.  SABR seems OK with that so I will wait for his response.  I will be in the Adirondacks in a couple of hours floating on a lake by sundown.  

 

And please....It's BORDER, not boarder.

Get that right

Yep, I misspelled border. I'm actually quite embarrassed about that one. 

 

As to you, I ignore you because I can read the same stuff at a thousand right wing fake news websites if I wanted or see it on some facebook memes. It isn't worth my time to read your screeds or respond to your posts. I'm not challenged by you, I'm depressed by you.* I responded to that post simply because you provided a link to a website but presented the information out of context and I wanted to make sure others were not confused. 

 

* note to mods, I answered this as respectfully and truthfully as could possible be.  

[PseudoSABR]

 

But now, since you can no longer ward off reality the argument shifts to the conditions at detention centers.  According to you, these people are coming up, walking thousands of miles only to be held in "concentration camps".  Why would they WILLINGLY, KNOWLINGLY march to what you call "concentration camps" in record numbers only to be tortured by this pernicious system set up by Trump?  Honestly man. 

 

...

 

Before you start hurling around broad accusations please know what the heck you are talking about.  I am being serious.  READ from many sources and GET information from the agencies who do this stuff (whether you like them or not).  You omit so many essential realities in favor of broad accusations that point the blame ONLY on America and its racist ways.  This has been the case since this whole discussion started months ago.  

Why do people come here to "be held in concentration camps" well because of the depravity of their lives, because they are ignorant and do not realize what will happen to them, because they are so desperate that any improbably hope of getting asylum is enough. Show some empathy.

 

And the hallmark of an informed person is the use of capitalization for emphasis.  You least of all need be telling people to do their homework.  You argue consistently in bad faith.  

[Craig Arko]

[ewen21]

Yeah. And I posted numerous links from the NY Times, Washington Post, and the Department of Homeland security. In fact, I refused to post anything from any place that could be considered even remotely conservative when these claims started to get made. I made a point to do that so this stuff you're saying now couldn't be said. I guess you ignored all that?

 

I honestly don't care how you perceive me at this point. At no point have you acknowledged how children have been manipulated and unlawfully used as commodities. There are fake family units arriving hundreds at a time. These are not fake reports. Believe what you want, but I would prefer it if you took me head on and actually went after the things I said two posts ago in response to SABR. Have some gumption

 

To discount all of it (while ignoring me) actually makes no sense

[ewen21]

Why do people come here to "be held in concentration camps" well because of the depravity of their lives, because they are ignorant and do not realize what will happen to them, because they are so desperate that any improbably hope of getting asylum is enough. Show some empathy.

 

And the hallmark of an informed person is the use of capitalization for emphasis. You least of all need be telling people to do their homework. You argue consistently in bad faith.

OK they are "ignorant".

That's your generalization.

 

I would argue they aren't as ignorant as you are saying they are. I think they are well informed about what's going on but they are incredibly desperate. They know very well that people are being detained and they don't care.

We can be altruistic about these kinds of things, but is empathy solving this problem? Is feeling sorry for them going to solve the problem? What happened to Angie is a tragedy the blame is squarely on her parents.

 

They have become desperate to come here and it has become an untenable situation. I feel we must use measures to deter people to make the journey and with Mexico's help we can make that happen.

 

We spoke of humanitarian aid. We can bump that up and help those countries

[Badsmerf]

Why not just declare they have weapons of mass destruction and invade them? Oh yeah, there is no oil there... Whelp, there is always Venezuela. I hear they are really dangerous. Always killing Americans. I bet there are terrorists there that want to do Jihad against American infidels.

[gunnarthor]

Since this thread wasn't blocked and is essentially about refugee children, some ugly photos out of Syria and maybe worth a moments thought.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/25/world/idlib-airstrike-ariha-photo-intl/index.html

 

Two of the three girls in the photo have died. The five year old, Rehim, who is saving her little sister, died when she fell and hit her head. The 7 month old is still alive although Syria sucks so who knows.

[Badsmerf]

Since this thread wasn't blocked and is essentially about refugee children, some ugly photos out of Syria and maybe worth a moments thought.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/25/world/idlib-airstrike-ariha-photo-intl/index.html

 

Two of the three girls in the photo have died. The five year old, Rehim, who is saving her little sister, died when she fell and hit her head. The 7 month old is still alive although Syria sucks so who knows.

My heart goes out to Syria. The major criticism I have about the Obama administration is the spineless Syria policy. We should have done more when we had the chance. The other Western nations are at fault as well. We've watched idly while this disgusting regime will sacrifice innocent people to root out political resistance. How convenient it is to live without real fear.