Article: SEA 9, MIN 6: Bullpen, Errors Spoil Buxton’s Dramatic Homer

[USAFChief]

There was only 10 guys. That one lady's a player, for sure.

not that there’s anything wrong with that.

[Loops]

With a shaky bullpen you don't want to give away free runs because of errors.  5 errors in a games is extreme.  Sano is the one who worries me.  He just had a bad error in Boston and now this.  Plus he strikes out a lot offensively.  He needs a reset.

[Minny505]

 

Just like hitters miss the ball when they don't keep their head on it and look away too soon. Just like football receivers look down field just before the ball gets there and miss the pass. Just like Buxton dropped one earlier in the year ...... unfortunate, but not a deal breaker at all. Throwing a ball with no chance of success .... those are the errors that I hate.

 

I was watching the game on mute with the fam and after watching the replay I commented that they might give Cron an error on the throw. Nothing about that was Garver's fault.

 

Even on the replay, the runner is safe if Garver had caught that cleanly. There is nothing he could have done with that throw to make an out.

That play is on Cron, not on Garver.

 

To read here that they charged Garver with an error is really surprising.

[Dantes929]

 

I may as well just prepare myself for the let down now.

History tells me this team isn’t going to do enough to fix this terrible bullpen (they’ll make some half-a&@ moves for expiring deals). If that is the case, this team isn’t even getting a whiff of the ALCS.

A lot of people are giving the bullpen a pass. But, it doesn’t take Keith Law to see that this unit was hanging by a thread thus far. That thread snapped against Milwaukee a couple weeks ago, and it’s in full-blown free fall at this point.

 

I may as well just prepare myself for the let down now.

History tells me this team isn’t going to do enough to fix this terrible bullpen (they’ll make some half-a&@ moves for expiring deals). If that is the case, this team isn’t even getting a whiff of the ALCS.

A lot of people are giving the bullpen a pass. But, it doesn’t take Keith Law to see that this unit was hanging by a thread thus far. That thread snapped against Milwaukee a couple weeks ago, and it’s in full-blown free fall at this point.

I disagree completely, or rather, a fair amount.   No, I am not happy with the makeup of the bullpen  and hope they improve but games are won in a variety of games and that includes playoff games.     How many times over the years have I heard that starting pitching needed to be great and power was absolutely essential and then see the Royals get to two WS with a lower level rotation and the very bottom of the league in home runs.    1987 Twins had a horrible bull pen.   Go look it up.    Buerenguer was at a 3.99 ERA and everyone else was 4.48 or higher and in some cases much higher but in the short series playoffs Schatzeder, Frazier and Niekro came up huge.     I can easily imagine a playoff where Odorizzi and Berios each pitch 7 good innings and Rogers, May, and Harper cleaning up and then a day of rest.   I can also imagine, Duffey, Magill or Pineda having a good week or some one else stepping up.      Getting ahead of ourselves though.    The number one factor in succeeding in the playoffs is to actually make the playoffs.    Lets win today. 

[Dantes929]

 

The math can be right, when using averages.

10 guys, each have 8 different partners. Average: 8.

10 women, 9 with 3 different partners, 1 with 13. Average: 4.

And the Twins pen can be worse than other contenders, and getting worser, despite being covered up by good fortune, great starting pitching, and historical offense.

In an equal population where are all the extra partners coming from for the men?    If there are 8 men and eight women it is possible for each man to have 8 different female partners but not if each of the women have only 4 different male partners no matter how it is distributed.     In a population of 100 men and 100 women it is not possible for men to be with women 800 times (100X8 on average)  while women have been with men only 400 times on average.    Every time a man has been with a woman a woman has also been with a man...

.

Yes, the Twin pen can be worse than other contenders and getting worse.    It can still get covered up by good starting pitching, offense and good fortune and at this point doesn't need a 70% win percentage.    It has been a weakness but far from a fatal weakness.    3 or 4 years ago Perkins and Jepsen blew about 5 games in two weeks and the team never recovered.    The pen this year has blown several games but has contributed greatly to quite a few wins also.    Overall, I am not at all unhappy with the performance of the pen thus far.   I wasn't expecting lights out and they have done enough to preserve enough wins to keep me happy.   Yes, I want a couple better pitchers to increase the odds of continuing to feel that way.     Go talk to the fans of the teams that have blown 12 games so far.    I do fear they are getting worse but a lot of my fear has to do with Rogers.   I don't know how serious that is.

[USAFChief]

I was watching the game on mute with the fam and after watching the replay I commented that they might give Cron an error on the throw. Nothing about that was Garver's fault.

 

Even on the replay, the runner is safe if Garver had caught that cleanly. There is nothing he could have done with that throw to make an out.

 

That play is on Cron, not on Garver.

 

To read here that they charged Garver with an error is really surprising.

the throw struck Garver directly in the glove. That's on Garver.

[Doomtints]

Is this the panic people keep predicting?

 

The Twins have a .500 record post-Astudillo, btw.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

if the bullpen were striking batters out, instead of allowing balls in play, would the errors have happened? I can still find a way to blame the bullpen

Fair enough, but the pen was asked to account for 7 outs. They got 2 Ks in that time frame I'd add too. Hoping they strike out all 7 without any balls in play on a consistent basis is unrealistic. Expecting them to not commit 5 errors most definitely is. 

 

I'm not arguing that we need help there. One extra K could have certainly changed a lot of dynamics of the game... but 5 errors... seriously, 5 errors. I've played on beer league softball teams that played better defense than that. 

[h2oface]

 

I was watching the game on mute with the fam and after watching the replay I commented that they might give Cron an error on the throw. Nothing about that was Garver's fault.

 

Even on the replay, the runner is safe if Garver had caught that cleanly. There is nothing he could have done with that throw to make an out.

That play is on Cron, not on Garver.

 

To read here that they charged Garver with an error is really surprising.

 

Yes, not the optimal throw for the tag. Regardless of whether the throw was optimal for the tag, it was easily catchable. He should catch it at least. Maybe he doesn't make the tag in time, but he should catch the ball. Just like when his target for the pitcher is the low and outside corner of the zone, and the pitcher completely misses the target and throws it to the high and inside part of the zone, he still needs to move his glove, and watch the ball into his glove, and make the catch. I give the error to Garver for sure, for not making the catch.

Edited June 13, 2019 by h2oface

[h2oface]

 

Is this the panic people keep predicting?

 

The Twins have a .500 record post-Astudillo, btw.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the Twins end up about a .500 team from here on out. Especially as the bullpen remains what it is and the starters regress. For a team that utilizes advanced stats and analytics so much, the bullpen has been screaming this was going to happen all year....... especially Parker, and Hildenberger, and even Rodgers, whose WHIP and average against indicates he has been pretty lucky. That should still get them the AL Central. But this team is ready for tweaks of improvement. Take the lucky performances and fortify, if the goal is the World Series.

 

Astudillo is also part of the problem, not a solution. Like Colabello, take the hot spell as a gift, and move on. Not a fan.

Edited June 13, 2019 by h2oface

[Little Potato]

In terms of last night's blown loss by the bullpen, some criticism has to go to Baldelli for misusing the arms he had. If you watched May the night before he was very shaky yet he got through it but he looked spent. Parker has been a disaster area every time he  goes out. Your rested arms were Morin and Eades. Morin has not gotten enough credit for how good he has been given the garbage coming from  the pen. Only two runs in 14 appearances. 

 

So he uses Morin for a third of an inning when he could have done an inning and a third. Then he brings in May who should have been rested and when he gets in trouble he brings in Parker who is obviously terrible to anyone watching. He should have been the last resort. I am not sure Baldelli knows how to handle the arms he has in the pen and he just goes by the role he has for them regardless of how they perform. The worse the bullpen has been, the better Baldelli has to be to pick the right guy at the right time. He seems to be great on the hitting side so hopefully he can replicate it on the bullpen side.

[jkill]

This was my fault guys. First game I attended this year. It was ugly, I took the kids home after the 3 run homer. Magically when I leave they start playing better. Checked in on my phone and I was excited to see they came back. Turned on the TV to start the 10th... Again my fault I am a curse for this team... I will stay away.

 

[Mr. Brooks]

In an equal population where are all the extra partners coming from for the men? If there are 8 men and eight women it is possible for each man to have 8 different female partners but not if each of the women have only 4 different male partners no matter how it is distributed. In a population of 100 men and 100 women it is not possible for men to be with women 800 times (100X8 on average) while women have been with men only 400 times on average. Every time a man has been with a woman a woman has also been with a man...

.

Yes, the Twin pen can be worse than other contenders and getting worse. It can still get covered up by good starting pitching, offense and good fortune and at this point doesn't need a 70% win percentage. It has been a weakness but far from a fatal weakness. 3 or 4 years ago Perkins and Jepsen blew about 5 games in two weeks and the team never recovered. The pen this year has blown several games but has contributed greatly to quite a few wins also. Overall, I am not at all unhappy with the performance of the pen thus far. I wasn't expecting lights out and they have done enough to preserve enough wins to keep me happy. Yes, I want a couple better pitchers to increase the odds of continuing to feel that way. Go talk to the fans of the teams that have blown 12 games so far. I do fear they are getting worse but a lot of my fear has to do with Rogers. I don't know how serious that is.

I don't know how to break this to you, but man + woman isn't the only possible combination of partnership.

[Dantes929]

 

I don't know how to break this to you, but man + woman isn't the only possible combination of partnership.

So many possible jokes to respond.    I tried to make it clear that the men were asked how many different females they were with and the women were asked how many guys they were with.     Otherwise, transgender, same gender, animal, corpse, robotic and alien encounters could  affect the result.   I suppose the definition of sex could affect the results but I suspect the answer is that men tend to inflate their numbers and women tend to be more conservative in their answers.    Either that or the polling methodology was flawed.     Maybe they shouldn't have asked all the drunk guys in front of the frat house and fewer women of the Temperance and Abstinence League.

[Mr. Brooks]

So many possible jokes to respond. I tried to make it clear that the men were asked how many different females they were with and the women were asked how many guys they were with. Otherwise, transgender, same gender, animal, corpse, robotic and alien encounters could affect the result. I suppose the definition of sex could affect the results but I suspect the answer is that men tend to inflate their numbers and women tend to be more conservative in their answers. Either that or the polling methodology was flawed. Maybe they shouldn't have asked all the drunk guys in front of the frat house and fewer women of the Temperance and Abstinence League.

Sorry, missed that qualifier then.

 

I'd guess you are correct then. Men tend to inflate their actual achievements.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Well, yeah... but I can still blame the offense, the base running and the defense too. I am fine with putting blame on the pen for this one as well as a few other games and a few blown saves, and no, I am not happy with the bullpen as is but Is it really the view of everyone that other bullpen's are awesome and strike everyone out? I am sure the Dodgers, Cubs, Red Sox, Astros and Yankees bullpens just strike everyone out, especially their closers. I just have a hard time reconciling it with the fact that they all have 2 or 3 times as many blown saves and higher blown save % than the Twins. Kind of reminds me of the results of a poll I once heard on the radio. Said that on average guys have relations with 8 different women in their life and on average women only have relations with 4 different guys. Everyone around me nodded their head and said that sounds about right. I pointed out that unless there are twice as many women that is not how average works. They insisted the poll was correct and math is just wrong..

that is the thing with polls... sample size matters....

 

good point on saves I think you can reconcile that with run differential. At plus 110 runs, they have more blow outs, fewer save opportunities.

[ashbury]

I was watching the game on mute with the fam and after watching the replay I commented that they might give Cron an error on the throw. Nothing about that was Garver's fault.

 

Even on the replay, the runner is safe if Garver had caught that cleanly. There is nothing he could have done with that throw to make an out.

 

That play is on Cron, not on Garver.

 

To read here that they charged Garver with an error is really surprising.

FWIW, here is what the Official Scorer at the game has to say: "High throw but should have been caught. I thought he would have put Gordon out so it was a missed out error and no RBI."