Concern about Royce Lewis?

[ashbury]

I read frustration... Can we set a standard that if it's indeed satire to put at the end? Or /s

We'll make that a top priority. /s

[Cornholio]

Did you look at the list I posted of top prospect short stops and their production in high-A? All of them were the same age Lewis is today. And (gasp!) some actually played in the FSL!

Yes I did. I was referencing the leg kick, and added the age factor. Not all prospects mature equally, I think if he loses the leg kick we will see results. Seems to be working for Buxton. No need to panic.

[Mike Sixel]

We'll make that a top priority. /s

Nicely done

 

I do like /s, but a lot of people don't know what it means....

[Mike Sixel]

Yes I did. I was referencing the leg kick, and added the age factor. Not all prospects mature equally, I think if he loses the leg kick we will see results. Seems to be working for Buxton. No need to panic.

If it's the leg kick, why does he still have it? That's the part I don't get.

[slideways]

 

First, the FSL is a pitcher's league so it's likely he's pressing a bit. Hitters in the FSL are averaging a  .241/.313/.355 line. For comparison, the AL is averaging a .249/.322/.430 line. His strike out rate has gone up a bit too much from last year's cup of coffee in the FSL but his walk rate is a pretty solid 8.5% despite that.

 

Second, he's really young. According to B-R, there are only 10 hitters listed as 20 or younger in the FSL right now. Fangraphs lists 11 with 50 PA. 

 

That said, I think I read somewhere that his mechanics were out of whack, which might be due to pressing or just trying something new. I'd probably wait a bit longer before getting too worried. 

First, that ain't a pitcher's league this year. He hasn't faced a top tier pitching talent the likes of Casey Mize, Brady Singer, MacKenzie Gore, Luis Patino, Jackson Koward, Daniel Lynch, Ryan Rolison. I could keep going... I don't care about ballpark size and dimensions. I care about who's on the bump.

 

Secondly, he's not so young any more. Please look up Heliot Ramos, Tirso Onelies. Luis Patino. Those guys are young (19) in High A and destroying.  Lewis is like 21 in High A. If he did full seasons.. That's 22 in AA and 23 in AAA. He's no longer the spring chicken.

 

I'm not trying to pull a holier than thou - but I follow minor league ball religiously. Of course I can't keep tabs on all players at all times, but I do a pretty robust run though every day. I listen to a lot of the games and tune in to some as well. Personally I like listening to minor league ball while I have the big league game on TV. I've been doing this for some time. 

 

I don't want to sound like Gordon Ramsey of minor league ball with Lewis, but man, this is troubling. He struggles against the teams top tier pitching and then does well against their scrubs. He's faced a lot of these pitchers multiple times now and he isn't improving. And really none of them were or are in the calls of the aforementioned pitchers. You should be worried. 

 

I heard all this stuff with Mickey Moniac...... 

 

 

[slideways]

 

A lot of players have trouble when they first enter a higher league.  Then they work hard, learn to relax and let their natural talent take over. 

He's had all season. The first half is 12 games away.  Kyle tucker is the example you were looking for. But once they get it back, it stays. Only the badness is staying with Royce.

[Cornholio]

If it's the leg kick, why does he still have it? That's the part I don't get.

i don’t really have the answer. Ultimately the decision to change is on Lewis. Perhaps the Twins have tried, and now they let him fail until he is frustrated enough to change on his own. How many times did they try to change Buxton?

[ashbury]

Nicely done

 

I do like /s, but a lot of people don't know what it means....

We're collectively dancing around a difficult point, so maybe I should state this as a:

 

Moderator's Note: It's not nice to mock people, and it's contrary to our site's Comment Policy. On the other hand, irony and satire are time-honored ways of making a point, but can be tricky to pull off because they can be taken literally. When you write the opposite of your actual meaning, to make the point stronger, or when you extrapolate someone's position, to expose the folly, it can come across as mocking the person moreso than the opinion itself. There's been a fair amount of that lately, and maybe it's time to dial it back a little. When you write something that's meant to be caustically humorous, make sure the target is clearly the opinion you are rebutting, and not the person. Humor is encouraged where appropriate, but mocking each other is not condoned here.

[twins1095]

I think there is some reason to have concern that Lewis's ceiling may not be what it was thought to be mid-way through last season.  However, there are lots of reasons to be patient as well.  

 

Let's see if he can make adjustments and where his slash line is in a couple months.

[IndianaTwin]

 

I read frustration... Can we set a standard that if it's indeed satire to put at the end? Or /s

 

 

Yeah, I tried to click on the smiley face, but it didn't populate. I should have gone with the :-). 

[slideways]

 

i don’t really have the answer. Ultimately the decision to change is on Lewis. Perhaps the Twins have tried, and now they let him fail until he is frustrated enough to change on his own. How many times did they try to change Buxton?

I think Keston Hiura did fine in the majors and minors with his high leg kick. And is anyone here saying Kirby Puckett should have toned it down? 

 

What's going on with Lewis is beyond his leg kick...well beyond. 

[IndianaTwin]

 

We're collectively dancing around a difficult point, so maybe I should state this as a:

 

Moderator's Note: It's not nice to mock people, and it's contrary to our site's Comment Policy. On the other hand, irony and satire are time-honored ways of making a point, but can be tricky to pull off because they can be taken literally. When you write the opposite of your actual meaning, to make the point stronger, or when you extrapolate someone's position, to expose the folly, it can come across as mocking the person moreso than the opinion itself. There's been a fair amount of that lately, and maybe it's time to dial it back a little. When you write something that's meant to be caustically humorous, make sure the target is clearly the opinion you are rebutting, and not the person. Humor is encouraged where appropriate, but mocking each other is not condoned here.

 

Thanks, Ash, and I'll willingly accept the gentle slap on the wrist. It was indeed intended as satire, but I recognize that that doesn't always come through. And it certainly was NOT meant to mock anyone, particularly including Vanimal who started the thread. I recognize Vanimal's signature as a regular and significant participant and contributor to the discussion. Vanimal, please accept my apology if it came across personally.

 

Ash and others, I also will again state my appreciation for the role you folks do as moderators. I've gone on record numerous times on the site in expressing my thankfulness for the general civility that is present on TwinsDaily, including thanking the moderators for their role in maintaining the civility, and I regularly name the spirit of community that is present when encouraging friends who are Twins fans to check out the site. 

 

 

[Vanimal46]

Thanks, Ash, and I'll willingly accept the gentle slap on the wrist. It was indeed intended as satire, but I recognize that that doesn't always come through. And it certainly was NOT meant to mock anyone, particularly including Vanimal who started the thread. I recognize Vanimal's signature as a regular and significant participant and contributor to the discussion. Vanimal, please accept my apology if it came across personally.

 

Ash and others, I also will again state my appreciation for the role you folks do as moderators. I've gone on record numerous times on the site in expressing my thankfulness for the general civility that is present on TwinsDaily, including thanking the moderators for their role in maintaining the civility, and I regularly name the spirit of community that is present when encouraging friends who are Twins fans to check out the site.

No offense taken whatsoever. I started this thread out of love and curiosity why Royce is struggling at this level. I do have higher standards for top 10 prospects in all of baseball and expect Lewis to dominate this level of play. The fact he isn't right now only delays his timeline to play for the Twins... And I really want to see a fast riser in the Twins system.

[Cornholio]

I think Keston Hiura did fine in the majors and minors with his high leg kick. And is anyone here saying Kirby Puckett should have toned it down?

 

What's going on with Lewis is beyond his leg kick...well beyond.

if it was easy, everyone would have a leg kick. Until Lewis tries losing the leg kick, we won’t know if it is the problem. But please tell me what you mean by “well beyond”.

[jkcarew]

I don't see this mentioned in the thread (could have missed it)...

Yesterday shortstop Michael Davis was promoted from Cedar Rapids to Pensacola.

 

Pensacola needed SS help in a major way...offensively, Jordon Gore has struggled mightily...and apparently, the Twins decided to send help all the way from low A, rather than move Lewis at this time. Could very well be that they see this as a temporary need. But I know a lot of in the community, including owners/contributors, saw a 'likely' move to AA for Lewis in June of this year. That seems in doubt.

 

 

[THE DFC]

Huh?  Royce literally turns 20 today.  

 

Secondly, he's not so young any more. Please look up Heliot Ramos, Tirso Onelies. Luis Patino. Those guys are young (19) in High A and destroying.  Lewis is like 21 in High A. If he did full seasons.. That's 22 in AA and 23 in AAA. He's no longer the spring chicken.

 

 

[THE DFC]

Lewis is 100/100 with athleticism and pedigree.  He's trying to make significant mechanical adjustments in a league where he's still super young.  He's also coming off one of the worst injuries for a young hitter (oblique strain). 

 

This is the time the Twins coaches need to earn their $$$.  He's approaching a fork in the road, and they need to ensure he takes the right path.

 

I have a feeling Holland, who we just drafted, will have a similar situation given his mechanics are even substantially worse.  Let's hope our hitting experts in the minors can deliver to the degree our guys at the big club have.  

[slideways]

 

if it was easy, everyone would have a leg kick. Until Lewis tries losing the leg kick, we won’t know if it is the problem. But please tell me what you mean by “well beyond”.

Well, looking back to his senior year in high school, he has a high leg kick. He's had it. So how is it impacting him now?

 

The biggest change, is the level of competition he's been facing. This is how you judge. This is the only thing we have. What does his body of work look like to current?

 

I checked into a few games the most recent set against Braderton. The one after the push up incident at 2nd.  Those at bats weren't great. He got a hit in one where he fell behind. But the pitches were in the dirt. The result was good, but -not sure if he's talented enough to set pitchers up. To me, he was swinging at bad pitches to get 0-2. There were other times during that set - I just wasn't impressed. He had one game where I think he had 5 LOB?

 

Also, he's 21 years old. In High A. At what point are we going to assume, maybe he's not going to be as good as what we thought? Is Buxton? No. But I like where he's at right now. I'm not haranguing him because he's not living up to potential . But that plate discipline wasn't there. At least not that series. And hitting .215  a shade above the mendoza line, it's been all season long. 

 

And the next thing I'll say, is that at 6 foot 2, he's still really skinny. The Brewers took Brice Turang in 2018. After his 1st season, they gave him strength and conditioning goals. Basically, to add weight, to start to fill out. Aging will partially do that. But it's clear Brice took to heart their off season to do list. They got him in spring training to take a look at him. And he's had a really productive season. ANd he doesn't look as skinny as he did in his pro debut. 

 

Who knows what's wrong. Who knows what the cure all is. Some say get rid of the leg kick. I might add in gain weight. Get a better hitting coach? I don't know. But he's not been hitting very well. As Bert says, you can't steal 1st base. So his speed tool only plays on one side of the ball consistently. 

 

So there it is. The beyond the leg kick. Better comp. Swinging at bad pitches. Still skinny. Just my take. Like I said, I'm in the guessing game like everyone else! I hope I'm wrong. But man..

 

Just look at Heliot Ramos !!! In the same draft as Lewis. Look what he's doing. I do hope like Ramos, after a bad year, he can turn it around,  But as noted with Ramos, his OPS, OBP and SLG went down, but other indicators like lowering his strike out rate by 25% and increasing total walk vs. k's improved. He was becoming a better hitter. And he might have been physically over matched as a true 18 in A ball. 

 

I hope so, Lewis by all accounts sounds like a stand up kid. I wish the best. But hitting just above the mendoza line should worry anyone in any league at any age.

[luckylager]

 

Also, he's 21 years old. In High A. At what point are we going to assume, maybe he's not going to be as good as what we thought? Is Buxton? No. But I like where he's at right now. I'm not haranguing him because he's not living up to potential . But that plate discipline wasn't there. At least not that series. And hitting .215  a shade above the mendoza line, it's been all season long. 

 

 

 

He is 20. Today. Yesterday he was 19. Happy Birthday Royce Lewis! 

[slideways]

 

Lewis is 100/100 with athleticism and pedigree.  He's trying to make significant mechanical adjustments in a league where he's still super young.  He's also coming off one of the worst injuries for a young hitter (oblique strain). 

 

This is the time the Twins coaches need to earn their $$$.  He's approaching a fork in the road, and they need to ensure he takes the right path.

 

I have a feeling Holland, who we just drafted, will have a similar situation given his mechanics are even substantially worse.  Let's hope our hitting experts in the minors can deliver to the degree our guys at the big club have.  

He is not super young in my opinion. He is 20 years old in High A.   Young, is Heliot Ramos in High A at 19. Young is Luis Patino who doesn't turn 20 until Nov. 22 in AA 23 in AAA and 24 in the majors. Seems pretty normal.

[slideways]

 

He is 20. Today. Yesterday he was 19. Happy Birthday Royce Lewis! 

I'll work on my math. Still, it doesn't change my stance on where he should be right now. I'm still concerned.

[gunnarthor]

 

I'll work on my math. Still, it doesn't change my stance on where he should be right now. I'm still concerned.

Well, for someone claiming to be a minor league expert, not knowing the difference between 20 and 21 seems pretty big. It's not just a year of extra playing time, most bodies are still growing. You also don't seem to understand common ages in the minor leagues. Other than that, welcome to TD. You'll fit right in.

 

[Mike Sixel]

 

Well, for someone claiming to be a minor league expert, not knowing the difference between 20 and 21 seems pretty big. It's not just a year of extra playing time, most bodies are still growing. You also don't seem to understand common ages in the minor leagues. Other than that, welcome to TD. You'll fit right in.

 

Well, common ages include all kinds of guys who aren't more than org filler. Superstars move fast, that's part of what makes them great, they are up early. 

[slideways]

 

Well, for someone claiming to be a minor league expert, not knowing the difference between 20 and 21 seems pretty big. It's not just a year of extra playing time, most bodies are still growing. You also don't seem to understand common ages in the minor leagues. Other than that, welcome to TD. You'll fit right in.

You're making a lot of assumptions buddy. And don't straw man me. I actually said I was no expert...exactly that. I think go back an d look if you care to actually read and gain insight without being a compete jerk. 

 

I don't know ages? What gave you that impression? I'm well aware of the course of a minor league player. High school draftees at 17 and 18 typically get assigned to Rookie league  or short season A. That begins in late June. College players are typically 20-22  They typically will start in Short A or if there's room and they're advanced, they'll join an A or A+ club while few visit the rookie league.

 

Do I have anything wrong there? If so please explain. 

 

Try not to lie, and straw man me. Try to actually read through. Be smart. 

[scottz]

PULL IT TOGETHER, ROYCE. HIT BASEBALLS BETTER. MOMMY AND DADDY ARE FIGHTING BECAUSE OF YOU.

 

I hope Royce has a good baseball game tonight.

[THE DFC]

Incorrect

 

He is not super young in my opinion. He is 20 years old in High A.   Young, is Heliot Ramos in High A at 19. Young is Luis Patino who doesn't turn 20 until Nov. 22 in AA 23 in AAA and 24 in the majors. Seems pretty normal.

 

[dgwills]

Am I worried. Of course. Sano, Rosario, Buxton, Kirilloff, and many other top prospects tore up the FSL. Am I panicking. No! You're panicking!

[70charger]

 

He is not super young in my opinion. He is 20 years old in High A. Young, is Heliot Ramos in High A at 19. Young is Luis Patino who doesn't turn 20 until Nov. 22 in AA 23 in AAA and 24 in the majors. Seems pretty normal.

 

Ramos = a difference of less than 4 months. 

Patino = a difference of less than 5 months.

 

This is a major difference to you?

 

I think a half-season slump is concerning, but the whole sky-is-falling thing doesn't work for me.

[Tom Froemming]

 

PULL IT TOGETHER, ROYCE. HIT BASEBALLS BETTER. MOMMY AND DADDY ARE FIGHTING BECAUSE OF YOU.

 

I hope Royce has a good baseball game tonight.

I'M GONNA PUNCH A HOLE IN THIS WALL IF ROYCE DOESN'T GET THREE HITS TONIGHT, SO HELP ME GOD

[Tom Froemming]

 

If Mickey Moniac is called a bust in year 2 by like everyone, they will be about Lewis too. Exactly, Mickey who?!?! 2016 #1 overall. Royce is right on pace to follow him. And no one, I mean no one really thinks he's going to be any good if ever making the Majors.

Mickey Moniac has a lot to work on, but he is currently slugging .431 in the EL, where league average is .367. One of his biggest question marks coming into the year was whether he'd ever hit for power.