Concern about Royce Lewis?

[Mr. Brooks]

If he's fighting injuries all season long shut him down until he's fully healthy. What's the point of 200 unhealthy plate appearances?

 

I thought we moved past the macho man I can play through anything that Brian Dozier was known for.

It depends, I guess. Sometimes you have a lingering issue that isn't at risk of being made worse by playing.

In MLB, where wins and losses matter, I'd agree that a guy shouldn't play if his performance is negatively impacting the team.

In the minors though, the wins and losses are mostly meaningless, so I could see a scenario where getting experience is worth it.

 

Not saying that I necessarily agree with the theory that is what's going on with Lewis though.

[Mike Sixel]

 

It depends, I guess. Sometimes you have a lingering issue that isn't at risk of being made worse by playing.
In MLB, where wins and losses matter, I'd agree that a guy shouldn't play if his performance is negatively impacting the team.
In the minors though, the wins and losses are mostly meaningless, so I could see a scenario where getting experience is worth it.

Not saying that I necessarily agree with the theory that is what's going on with Lewis though.

 

If the injury is giving him bad habits in his swing, I'd think that was bad. That seems to be the theory here, at least from some......

[Mr. Brooks]

If the injury is giving him bad habits in his swing, I'd think that was bad. That seems to be the theory here, at least from some......

I agree, it would be bad. I don't endorse it if that is what they are doing.

[bird]

 

If he's fighting injuries all season long shut him down until he's fully healthy. What's the point of 200 unhealthy plate appearances?

I thought we moved past the macho man I can play through anything that Brian Dozier was known for.

 

 

Hitting is hard, so as long as it's not doing damage, what's the harm? Getting his reps on defense is probably much more important at this stage of his development.

 

He's fine. If he wasn't, he'd be out.

[Vanimal46]

Hitting is hard, so as long as it's not doing damage, what's the harm? Getting his reps on defense is probably much more important at this stage of his development.

 

He's fine. If he wasn't, he'd be out.

There's a theory from some on this thread that the "injury" is throwing his mechanics out of whack. I don't see how that's any benefit if he's developing new muscle memory from this injury. Seems like it's going to take longer to break the habit instead of shutting him down completely, no?

 

And, for the record, I don't believe the oblique injury is causing his decline in performance.

[USAFChief]

 

Yes and no. I agree that a top 10 prospect should be doing better but I'm not quite ready to panic over it. But I disagree that Kiriloff is a relevant comparison. Both are great prospects but for different reasons. Kiriloff is a bat first player at a position where defense doesn't really matter. He's gotten to where he is in the rankings by showing a major hit profile. Lewis, on the other hand, isn't as advanced as Kiriloff is with the bat but is also playing a premium defensive position. If he can continue to do so, he won't need to hit as much so his rankings reflect that as well.

If he doesn't hit, where he plays is irrelevant.

[USAFChief]

 

The best policy is to never, ever bank on a prospect turning into a superstar. It's too rare and unpredictable. The advantage with an athletic, up-the-middle player is that they can accumulate WAR in a number of ways. If Lewis turns into a legit shortstop, he doesn't have to be a great hitter to add a lot of value.

Completely agree with the bolded.

 

The rest, not so much. Every team in the majors has a shortstop or two. They have another 2 or 3 in the high minors. Just being a shortstop doesn't mean squat. In fact, it's an illustration of the folly that is WAR.

 

Being a shortstop who can hit means a lot.

[Vanimal46]

It depends, I guess. Sometimes you have a lingering issue that isn't at risk of being made worse by playing.

In MLB, where wins and losses matter, I'd agree that a guy shouldn't play if his performance is negatively impacting the team.

In the minors though, the wins and losses are mostly meaningless, so I could see a scenario where getting experience is worth it.

 

Not saying that I necessarily agree with the theory that is what's going on with Lewis though.

That lingering issue also causes a person to favor and change their mechanics. I don't particularly want him to swing hundreds of times off the field, and take 200+ plate appearances on the field if he has a lingering injury.

[Tomj14]

 

The best policy is to never, ever bank on a prospect turning into a superstar. It's too rare and unpredictable.

If this is the best policy (which I agree with) should mean you never worry about trading a minor league player for an established player to help your team win.

[Mike Sixel]

 

If this is the best policy (which I agree with) should mean you never worry about trading a minor league player for an established player to help your team win.

 

QFT

[drivlikejehu]

 

If this is the best policy (which I agree with) should mean you never worry about trading a minor league player for an established player to help your team win.

 

Logical fallacy. Every prospect has a range of probabilities in terms of future value. You still have to be wary of trading away someone with a 20% chance of being a superstar . . . without a core of talented players, the supporting players are irrelevant. The probabilistic nature of prospects trips a lot of people up in terms of understanding their value.

 

Obviously, if you're talking about acquiring an ace pitcher or something, it makes sense to give more up. But trading away legit prospects for mediocre players is not a good strategy. 

[Mr. Brooks]

That lingering issue also causes a person to favor and change their mechanics. I don't particularly want him to swing hundreds of times off the field, and take 200+ plate appearances on the field if he has a lingering injury.

Sure, but let's keep in mind that the coaching staffs see these guys every day. We don't.

 

Perhaps it's affecting his performance, but the coaches don't think it's causing any permanent bad habits.

Perhaps they planned to overhaul his swing soon anyway, so they aren't concerned about any mechanical crutches he's developing.

Perhaps the injury is healed and isn't to blame.

We just don't know enough. Doesn't mean we can't have opinions, I respect everyone's. But at the same time, I try to avoid concrete stances that require information that I know I don't have.

[Mr. Brooks]

Completely agree with the bolded.

 

The rest, not so much. Every team in the majors has a shortstop or two. They have another 2 or 3 in the high minors. Just being a shortstop doesn't mean squat. In fact, it's an illustration of the folly that is WAR.

 

Being a shortstop who can hit means a lot.

Hit or not hit isn't an on or off switch. It's more like a dimmer.

There is a wide range between poor hitter and great hitter.

 

I don't think anyone is suggesting that a guy can be a poor hitter just because he's a SS, but he can defintely get away with being lower on the scale than a DH can.

Brent Rooker is going to have to be a GREAT hitter to have value. We all hope Royce Lewis becomes a great hitter, that's why he's ranked where he is, but he can be an above average hitter and still be really valuable.

[Vanimal46]

Sure, but let's keep in mind that the coaching staffs see these guys every day. We don't.

 

Perhaps it's affecting his performance, but the coaches don't think it's causing any permanent bad habits.

Perhaps they planned to overhaul his swing soon anyway, so they aren't concerned about any mechanical crutches he's developing.

Perhaps the injury is healed and isn't to blame.

We just don't know enough. Doesn't mean we can't have opinions, I respect everyone's. But at the same time, I try to avoid concrete stances that require information that I know I don't have.

I'm not claiming to know information. Swinging a bat, golf club, etc develops muscle memory. If I continued to play golf with a lingering back issue, my swing is going to change because I'm favoring a bad back. Once my back is healed, the muscle memory from swinging with a bad back is going to remain there until I start swinging a few hundred times healthy.

 

IMO it would be better for me to take a couple weeks off from golf, let it heal all the way, and keep the same muscle memory I had before the injury.

[Mr. Brooks]

I'm not claiming to know information. Swinging a bat, golf club, etc develops muscle memory. If I continued to play golf with a lingering back issue, my swing is going to change because I'm favoring a bad back. Once my back is healed, the muscle memory from swinging with a bad back is going to remain there until I start swinging a few hundred times healthy.

 

IMO it would be better for me to take a couple weeks off from golf, let it heal all the way, and keep the same muscle memory I had before the injury.

Sure, but that's one example, for one specific human body.

 

What if Lewis has the exact same mechanics as he did pre injury, but the bat comes through the zone a little slower because he doesn't have as much core strength? That would affect his numbers, but might not cause any bad habits.

 

Like you, my own personal opinion is that it's not related to the injury, but I'm not willing to rule it out or even make it a longshot.

Oblique injuries can linger for a long time.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Sure, but that's one example, for one specific human body.

What if Lewis has the exact same mechanics as he did pre injury, but the bat comes through the zone a little slower because he doesn't have as much core strength? That would affect his numbers, but might not cause any bad habits.

Like you, my own personal opinion is that it's not related to the injury, but I'm not willing to rule it out or even make it a longshot.
Oblique injuries can linger for a long time.

 

Of course, the argument being made for his less than stellar hitting is that he has changed his swing due to the injury.

 

If that's not the cause, then that's even more worrisome, I'd think (unless it is bad speed only).

[gunnarthor]

 

If he doesn't hit, where he plays is irrelevant.

Well, sure. But no one was arguing that. I just said his bat doesn't need to project as Kiriloff's bat to remain his high ranking. That's not a particular controversial comment.

[Vanimal46]

https://twitter.com/AaronGleeman/status/1136260409508282369?s=19

[big dog]

 

QFT

I fail to see the relevance of Quantum Field Theory.  Where's Craig Arko???

 

[IndianaTwin]

Between this one and the Sano thread, I think we should package them for a AA outfielder. It's "perform immediately or get out of the way" in my book. Working through things is not an option. We should have traded Buxton last year for a case of walleye. 

[big dog]

 

https://twitter.com/AaronGleeman/status/1136260409508282369?s=19

Any chance of a two-sentence summary for those of us who have not yet gotten around to subscribing to BP?  Maybe this will be the push I need.

[big dog]

 

Between this one and the Sano thread, I think we should package them for a AA outfielder. It's "perform immediately or get out of the way" in my book. Working through things is not an option. We should have traded Buxton last year for a case of walleye. 

To be fair, I would trade almost anyone for a case of walleye.

[Cornholio]

I wonder if he still has that huge leg kick as part of his swing. Maybe it's time to ditch that if so.

This. It’s a process, it will take some time. I expect to see the leg kick gone, or at least greatly reduced. With that said, the FSL is a tough league to hit in, and he’s very young by comparison.

[Vanimal46]

Between this one and the Sano thread, I think we should package them for a AA outfielder. It's "perform immediately or get out of the way" in my book. Working through things is not an option. We should have traded Buxton last year for a case of walleye.

Only you are saying this, FYI. This a strong hawt taek.

[Vanimal46]

This. It’s a process, it will take some time. I expect to see the leg kick gone, or at least greatly reduced. With that said, the FSL is a tough league to hit in, and he’s very young by comparison.

Did you look at the list I posted of top prospect short stops and their production in high-A? All of them were the same age Lewis is today. And (gasp!) some actually played in the FSL!

[ashbury]

Only you are saying this, FYI. This a strong hawt taek.

It's satire, which often doesn't go over well here, and I've got the scars to prove it.

[slideways]

Yeah I'd be concerned. Very concerned. He hasn't even had to face the best pitchers in High A. He has been spared the likes of Casey Mize, Brady Singer, Jackson Kowar, Daniel Lynch, MacKenzie Gore, Luis Patino, Logan Gilbert and a lot of others. (Yes I know Mize and Singer are in AA now - but it proves they were top talent in High A -and he didn't have to face them)

 

The 1st poster responded saying it's a pitcher friendly league is making a blanket statement based on stadium size and not actual pitching talent in that league at that given time. He hasn't been facing the best. And he isn't doing well against what he has been facing. 

 

If Mickey Moniac is called a bust in year 2 by like everyone, they will be about Lewis too. Exactly, Mickey who?!?! 2016 #1 overall. Royce is right on pace to follow him. And no one, I mean no one really thinks he's going to be any good if ever making the Majors. 

 

Am I dooming Lewis? No.

 

But it hasn't looked good at a level he should be doing well in. 

 

Can he turn it around? Who knows. But players who start off slow usually do turn things around. Look at Kyle Tucker. But the difference is, once he did turn it around, it stayed. The Tucker we all thought we had is back. 

 

Look at another young player in Heliot Ramos. Blew the hinges off the door in Rookie league. Got owned in A ball. And now he's destroying High A at age 19. Which Lewis, should be doing. 

 

Is it possible? Yes. Likely? Based on what I've seen in High A, not likely anytime this year.

 

Was it the injury? 

 

Highly doubt the Twins let him play if it is or was. 

 

Lewis has some work to do. He's gotta get stronger. Heavier. He's got to quiet down all that jazz at the plate. Nothing looks smooth this year... 

 

[Vanimal46]

It's satire, which often doesn't go over well here, and I've got the scars to prove it.

I read frustration... Can we set a standard that if it's indeed satire to put at the end? Or /s

[Cornholio]

Did you look at the list I posted of top prospect short stops and their production in high-A? All of them were the same age Lewis is today. And (gasp!) some actually played in the FSL!

[slideways]

 

The pressure that comes from being #1. Along with everyone trying to hit 50 by the All-Star break. I would rather have a guy hitting .320 with 10 hr than someone hitting .210 20 hr

He has all of 2 HR's? He ain't trying for power. And he isn't hitting for Avg. either .218.  I'm not sure you're on point here. He was never a power hitter, nor was he or has he indicated nor any scouts that power was his calling card.