Park: Twins Catchers Performing

[Seth Stohs]

https://www.mlb.com/twins/news/mitch-garver-willians-astudillo-jason-castro-production

 

Do-Hyoung Park wrote a strong article talking about how good the Twins catchers have been this year. All three of them have been productive with the bat, especially Garver, while also doing well behind the plate. 

 

Mitch Garver says he believes in this group but that they're just competitive... 

 

 

"It could be a hot month," Garver said. "It's a long season and things could even out. Obviously, I think very highly of our catchers, and us as a group, we're strong together and we compete against each other and against the league. But it's always for the better. That's kind of the fun part of it."

 

I like this point made by Baldelli about playing time.

 

 

"Normally, you would make the argument that more at-bats is always good," Baldelli said. "Timing matters to Major League hitters getting more opportunity at the plate generally leads to good results. With catchers, I don't know if it is a little different. Their job consists of them beating themselves up every night. There's a lot of wear and tear on their bodies and maybe some of the time off is helpful."

 

[Thrylos]

How about this stat comparison for fun:

 

Twins' production from the Catcher spot, 2019: .336/.412/.735, 1.147 OPS, 179 OPS+
J.T. Realmuto, 2019: .280/.338/.432; .771 OPS, 102 OPS+

[Riverbrian]

 

How about this stat comparison for fun:

 

Twins' production from the Catcher spot, 2019: .336/.412/.735, 1.147 OPS, 179 OPS+
J.T. Realmuto, 2019: .280/.338/.432; .771 OPS, 102 OPS+

 

Progressing further with this thought. 2 Years of Realmuto netted the Marlins one of the top right handed pitching prospects in baseball with Sixto Sanchez, a respectable young catching replacement that still has some upside in Alfaro and a left hander that is also not a bad prospect.  

 

The Twins would be absolutely foolish to stand in the way of Garver or Astudillo right now. 

[Thrylos]

 

Progressing further with this thought. 2 Years of Realmuto netted the Marlins one of the top right handed pitching prospects in baseball with Sixto Sanchez, a respectable young catching replacement that still has some upside in Alfaro and a left hander that is also not a bad prospect.  

 

The Twins would be absolutely foolish to stand in the way of Garver or Astudillo right now. 

 

Here is the killer:

 

Castro is hitting .244/.380/.585, .965 OPS, 155 OPS+ .  He should bring at least an arm (and maybe a leg) sooner than later, and the Twins can have Astudillo as the back up...

 

 

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Here is the killer:

 

Castro is hitting .244/.380/.585, .965 OPS, 155 OPS+ .  He should bring at least an arm (and maybe a leg) sooner than later, and the Twins can have Astudillo as the back up...

If this team continues to dominate, I'm not trading a single MLB piece for anything. That's what the minor leagues are for.

 

It's time to win. A third catcher will likely be a pretty big deal through August and September, as you work in Astudillo more and give Garver/Castro more rest for the postseason.

 

Never mind that a third catcher becomes moot the moment one of them gets injured, which we already saw happen in the first month of the season.

[DocBauer]

If this team continues to dominate, I'm not trading a single MLB piece for anything. That's what the minor leagues are for.

 

It's time to win. A third catcher will likely be a pretty big deal through August and September, as you work in Astudillo more and give Garver/Castro more rest for the postseason.

 

Never mind that a third catcher becomes moot the moment one of them gets injured, which we already saw happen in the first month of the season.

And let us not forget that Astudillo is not simply a 3rd catcher you are carrying. While a very different player than Marwin Gonzalez, he is also a functional utility player with a quality bat. (As well as, probably, a great PH option). Other than maybe 3B, which will belong to Sano in the not to distant future, Astudillo is not necessarily a guy you want to pencil in daily at 1B or corner OF spot, but he can play them, and play them at least adequately. So this not a 3rd catcher "luxury" taking up a roster spot.

 

But at some point, later in the season, or by next season since he is not signed for 2020, Castro very well could be gone. I think we're in great shape having these 3 guys. But I agree with Brian that you also don't want to stand in the way of the future in regard to Garver and Astudillo.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

And let us not forget that Astudillo is not simply a 3rd catcher you are carrying. While a very different player than Marwin Gonzalez, he is also a functional utility player with a quality bat. (As well as, probably, a great PH option). Other than maybe 3B, which will belong to Sano in the not to distant future, Astudillo is not necessarily a guy you want to pencil in daily at 1B or corner OF spot, but he can play them, and play them at least adequately. So this not a 3rd catcher "luxury" taking up a roster spot.

But at some point, later in the season, or by next season since he is not signed for 2020, Castro very well could be gone. I think we're in great shape having these 3 guys. But I agree with Brian that you also don't want to stand in the way of the future in regard to Garver and Astudillo.

Yep. I'd probably demote Astudillo (or maybeeeee consider trading Castro) if it was a straight-up "three catcher" situation.

 

The Twins have the luxury of fielding a third catcher that can play four other positions (so now we're at five positions overall) competently. The team isn't losing anything by allowing that roster spot to be sucked up by another "catcher" but they gain a lot by letting their primary catchers take breathers on a regular basis, never mind if one of those catchers get injured... and have any of you "trade Castro" folks actually looked at the minors? Good god, I want nothing to do with the current catcher "depth" in the organization.

 

As for Castro getting in the way, he's gone after this season while both Astudillo and Garver have years of control left. It's such a complete non-issue.

[DocBauer]

Yep. I'd probably demote Astudillo (or maybeeeee consider trading Castro) if it was a straight-up "three catcher" situation.

 

The Twins have the luxury of fielding a third catcher that can play four other positions (so now we're at five positions overall) competently. The team isn't losing anything by allowing that roster spot to be sucked up by another "catcher" but they gain a lot by letting their primary catchers take breathers on a regular basis, never mind if one of those catchers get injured... and have any of you "trade Castro" folks actually looked at the minors? Good god, I want nothing to do with the current catcher "depth" in the organization.

 

As for Castro getting in the way, he's gone after this season while both Astudillo and Garver have years of control left. It's such a complete non-issue.

A return "yep" your direction. No doubt we have more young catching talent in the system than we have had in years! But they are currently in A+ or lower, though there are a couple interesting options in AA. But it's scary to think if you had to dip down in your system due to injury you're probably looking at the not yet ready Navaretto as your best choice.

 

I wish someone could tell me something to feel better about Telis. I know decent catching help isn't always easy to find, but for depth and someone to work with our AAA staff, this is the best we could come up with?

[Danchat]

It was very unexpected to see the Twins go from having two questionable catchers (Castro with his knee and potentially poor bat and Garver's concussions) to suddenly having the best catcher situation in the MLB. Garver is so dramatically better defensively and offensively it's almost unbelievable. Castro may not be all that great behind the plate, but he does bring some on-base ability and good defense. I'd ride this group out as long as I could, as there's no need to trade Castro. 

[ashbury]

I came into this season expecting bupkis from Castro due to the knee surgery, and am happy to have been proven wrong. The guy has to have a ton of character, to achieve this. (Uh, erm, not that I was doubting his character, during the offseason. Just that I didn't think it would be enough.)

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

If this team continues to dominate, I'm not trading a single MLB piece for anything. That's what the minor leagues are for.

 

It's time to win. A third catcher will likely be a pretty big deal through August and September, as you work in Astudillo more and give Garver/Castro more rest for the postseason.

 

Never mind that a third catcher becomes moot the moment one of them gets injured, which we already saw happen in the first month of the season.

 

I would make an exception for another major league piece. I tend to agree, but if Castro brought in a lights out reliever, I'd have to think about it. 

[bird]

 

If this team continues to dominate, I'm not trading a single MLB piece for anything. That's what the minor leagues are for.

 

It's time to win. A third catcher will likely be a pretty big deal through August and September, as you work in Astudillo more and give Garver/Castro more rest for the postseason.

 

Never mind that a third catcher becomes moot the moment one of them gets injured, which we already saw happen in the first month of the season.

 

 

This trio doesn't represent a surplus in my mind. 

[Riverbrian]

 

Yep. I'd probably demote Astudillo (or maybeeeee consider trading Castro) if it was a straight-up "three catcher" situation.

 

The Twins have the luxury of fielding a third catcher that can play four other positions (so now we're at five positions overall) competently. The team isn't losing anything by allowing that roster spot to be sucked up by another "catcher" but they gain a lot by letting their primary catchers take breathers on a regular basis, never mind if one of those catchers get injured... and have any of you "trade Castro" folks actually looked at the minors? Good god, I want nothing to do with the current catcher "depth" in the organization.

 

As for Castro getting in the way, he's gone after this season while both Astudillo and Garver have years of control left. It's such a complete non-issue.

 

As soon as you think you have depth and use that as an excuse to lessen that depth... the baseball gods will teach you a lesson and lesson it further on you... leaving you no place to build it back up. 

 

There is absolutely no reason to trade Castro. Enjoy this team! 

[Mr. Brooks]

I would make an exception for another major league piece. I tend to agree, but if Castro brought in a lights out reliever, I'd have to think about it.

Can you name some examples of MLB for MLB deadline trades?

My buddy and I were having this conversation the other day, and neither of us could recall any.

[Brock Beauchamp]

This trio doesn't represent a surplus in my mind.

Well, they’re the best catching group through the first 35 games of the season.

[Mr. Brooks]

Well, they’re the best catching group through the first 35 games of the season.

True, but one is a 32 year old pending free agent. And the other two have 608 combined plate appearances, with one having concussions and the other no true position.

They are in great shape at this very moment, but I agree it's not a surplus.

[Brock Beauchamp]

True, but one is a 32 year old pending free agent. And the other two have 608 combined plate appearances, with one having concussions and the other no true position.

They are in great shape at this very moment, but I agree it's not a surplus.

I wouldn’t call them a surplus either but partially because I don’t believe a team can have a catching surplus.

[Major League Ready]

 

I would make an exception for another major league piece. I tend to agree, but if Castro brought in a lights out reliever, I'd have to think about it. 

 

I was thinking almost the same thing.  My thought was you take that deal if someone is willing to trade a really good RP.

[Riverbrian]

 

True, but one is a 32 year old pending free agent. And the other two have 608 combined plate appearances, with one having concussions and the other no true position.
They are in great shape at this very moment, but I agree it's not a surplus.

 

Is there any team in MLB currently with a surplus behind the plate? 

[jimbo92107]

1. Catchers do get beat up during a 162-game season. 

2. Teams with one good catcher play him when he's banged up, and he plays poorly. See Suzuki, Kurt.

 

Twins right now have an almost ideal balance of good hitting catchers, two of whom can play other positions, or pinch hit. Because we have El Cherubo, Garver can pinch hit anytime he's needed, and vice versa. Torts isn't as good as Gonzo in the infield, but he's perfectly respectable, and A-Stud's bat makes it worth the slight trade-off. Meanwhile, Garver's catching game has improved vastly, due in large part to that kid ball trick of putting one knee down. This helps save energy and knee strain vs. the squat, and helps him block balls in the dirt, which helps boost a pitcher's confidence. How many Twins pitchers throw balls in the dirt? All of them, every game. And the little chubby guy looks like a born catcher, too. 

 

Keep 'em all, as long as you can. Enjoy the benefits of three good catchers, two of whom are also utility players. All three will benefit from spreading the damage of the usual beating catchers take. 

[DocBauer]

1. Catchers do get beat up during a 162-game season.

2. Teams with one good catcher play him when he's banged up, and he plays poorly. See Suzuki, Kurt.

 

Twins right now have an almost ideal balance of good hitting catchers, two of whom can play other positions, or pinch hit. Because we have El Cherubo, Garver can pinch hit anytime he's needed, and vice versa. Torts isn't as good as Gonzo in the infield, but he's perfectly respectable, and A-Stud's bat makes it worth the slight trade-off. Meanwhile, Garver's catching game has improved vastly, due in large part to that kid ball trick of putting one knee down. This helps save energy and knee strain vs. the squat, and helps him block balls in the dirt, which helps boost a pitcher's confidence. How many Twins pitchers throw balls in the dirt? All of them, every game. And the little chubby guy looks like a born catcher, too.

 

Keep 'em all, as long as you can. Enjoy the benefits of three good catchers, two of whom are also utility players. All three will benefit from spreading the damage of the usual beating catchers take.

Have to say I've been pretty impressed the way Rocco has been using everyone in order to keep everyone productive and healthy. (Having a good and deep roster helps). Seems the entire structure of how things are being run now keeps everyone sharp and healthy and ready to go.

[Mr. Brooks]

Is there any team in MLB currently with a surplus behind the plate?

Doubtful, without researching every organizational depth chart.

[Brock Beauchamp]

A good example of how catcher surplus doesn’t exist is the 2010 Twins. They had Mauer, a near lock Cooperstown guy, and Ramos, a damned promising catcher in his own right. Ramos was traded.

 

Fast forward to 2011.

[AlwaysinModeration]

...Mauer, a near lock Cooperstown guy...

Them’s fightin’ words.

 

At least around these parts, anyway. (I agree with you.)

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Them’s fightin’ words.

At least around these parts, anyway. (I agree with you.)

In 2010, Mauer was basically a lock. Anyone who says otherwise is just refusing to acknowledge what it meant to be a catcher with three batting titles, good defense, and an otherworldly OPS (for a catcher).

[Riverbrian]

 

Doubtful, without researching every organizational depth chart.

 

It's always eye of the beholder so I was curious. 

 

My overall concern was that the definition of "surplus" at the catcher position may have reached an impossible (never achieved before) standard. 

 

The catcher positions are overflowing with .200 hitters and that's why J.T. Realmuto cost nearly the same (maybe more, maybe less) than Christian Yelich did. 

 

 

[Riverbrian]

 

A good example of how catcher surplus doesn’t exist is the 2010 Twins. They had Mauer, a near lock Cooperstown guy, and Ramos, a damned promising catcher in his own right. Ramos was traded.

Fast forward to 2011.

 

Yep

 

It's really hard to build depth when two talented players at a position are a problem. 

 

As a result, Drew Butera is the typical example of catching surplus. 

[RatherBeGolfing]

It's still early but I will gladly eat crow here. I was not a fan of Castro or Garver and thought catcher was going to be a tire fire throughout the year and I also thought Astudillo was a fun story but would begin to get exposed.

 

I have been wrong.

 

Eating crow for breakfast at the moment.

[Shaitan]

No contending team is going to trade an MLB lights out reliever mid-season.

 

No non-contending team is going to want a veteran, pending free agent catcher.

 

I don't see a scenario where it would be possible for an MLB-for-MLB player trade with Castro anyway. I also don't think it's a good idea, given the inexperience of the other 2 catchers + Austudillo's versatility.