Why Astudillo in RF and Marwin at 3B?

[Riverbrian]

I am Mr. Flexibility... I have no problem with a player playing a different position.. in fact I encourage it. I'm honestly not concerned with Astudillo playing RF at face value. 

 

However... What I don't understand is why not Astudillo at 3B and Marwin in RF if they both in the same lineup? 

 

Astudillo has not shown himself to be a defensive issue at third. 

 

Astudillo has shown himself to have marginal speed over distance while possessing fairly decent reactionary quickness over shorter spaces. 

 

Marwin has years of experience in the OF.  

 

Next question.. that I must raise again because of this deployment of resources. 

 

If the team can option Cave to the minors (I'm OK with this) because Astudillo can cover a backup OF role. Couldn't they have taken the same approach before releasing Tyler Austin. Option Cave so Austin can play the backup OF role instead of releasing Austin? 

 

I don't know if Austin can play the OF but the Giants are willing to try and I openly question how low of a defensive bar could Austin not clear if Astudillo is OK out there but Austin is not. 

 

Those are just additional thoughts... the question is really... Why not Marwin in RF and La Tortuga at 3B? 

[stringer bell]

I dunno. I do know that Gonzalez has spent almost all of his outfield time in left. Perhaps they didn’t want to move/disrupt Rosario in addition to Kepler.

[Riverbrian]

 

I dunno. I do know that Gonzalez has spent almost all of his outfield time in left. Perhaps they didn’t want to move/disrupt Rosario in addition to Kepler.

 

It could be, although, I sincerely hope not. I admit that the ball will spin differently from RF to LF but balls spin and that's part of finding the ball and catching it in the OF.

 

I know that you have to throw to the 1B for the cut home as opposed to the 3B but I still sincerely hope that RF/LF isn't the reason. 

 

Astudillo has like around 18 career innings in RF total and Marwin has around 7 for his career. On the other hand... Marwin has twice as many OF innings than La Tortuga.      

[Riverbrian]

 

I dunno. I do know that Gonzalez has spent almost all of his outfield time in left. Perhaps they didn’t want to move/disrupt Rosario in addition to Kepler.

 

Right on cue... Astudillo gets hurt. Adrianza goes to 3B, Gonzalez is moved to LF, Rosario to CF and Kepler to RF. 

 

Good Call String. 

 

It makes no sense to me but there it is. 

 

 

[Danchat]

Methinks they think Gonzalez is a much better defender at 3B than Astudillo is. Your argument makes more sense to me, but they appear to love Marwin at 3B over anybody else.

[nicksaviking]

If I want Austudillo to continue to be an option in the outfield, I’d want him to get reps there.

[stringer bell]

I noticed that when Astudillo and Gonzalez were manning the corners, Willians plays first. Finally, there is a choice to makes between Arianza and Gonzalez. Arianza gets third, while Marwin goes to left. That could be reversed as well.

[Riverbrian]

 

If I want Austudillo to continue to be an option in the outfield, I’d want him to get reps there.

 

Personally, I have no problem with Astudillo in the outfield. 

 

I'm just wondering if Astudillo and Marwin are both in the lineup. Why Astudillo in the OF? 

[Riverbrian]

 

I noticed that when Astudillo and Gonzalez were manning the corners, Willians plays first. Finally, there is a choice to makes between Arianza and Gonzalez. Arianza gets third, while Marwin goes to left. That could be reversed as well.

 

These are the moments that you get to learn what the manager thinks or at least implies that he thinks. 

 

 

[jorgenswest]

 

Personally, I have no problem with Astudillo in the outfield. 

 

I'm just wondering if Astudillo and Marwin are both in the lineup. Why Astudillo in the OF? 

He is primarily an outfielder in winter ball with 34 starts (1B-18, 3B-5, C-4).

 

Seems reasonable that the best overall defensive alignment is with Marwin at 3B and Willians in the outfield. 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Astudillo to the Injured List, unfortunately.

 

But maybe this is an opportunity to see a new guy make his debut. I can’t imagine they carry 14 pitchers (are they at 13?)

[yarnivek1972]

Astudillo to the Injured List, unfortunately.

 

But maybe this is an opportunity to see a new guy make his debut. I can’t imagine they carry 14 pitchers (are they at 13?)

They will likely just bring Cave back. Torreyes is doing poorly. Gordon is hurt. I don’t think they would bring Wade up for a bench role even though Cave is only 13 months older.

[nicksaviking]

Personally, I have no problem with Astudillo in the outfield. 

 

I'm just wondering if Astudillo and Marwin are both in the lineup. Why Astudillo in the OF?

 

I just meant that maybe it was to keep him from getting rusty.

[Riverbrian]

https://twitter.com/i/status/1122261760201748481

 

Tyler Austin played LF today for the Giants. To my knowledge, he had one ball hit his way. 

 

Tough play... he made it look tougher but then played possum enough to record the out with an outfield assist. 

 

Could Astudillo do this? 

[Mr. Brooks]

I am Mr. Flexibility... I have no problem with a player playing a different position.. in fact I encourage it. I'm honestly not concerned with Astudillo playing RF at face value.

 

However... What I don't understand is why not Astudillo at 3B and Marwin in RF if they both in the same lineup?

 

Astudillo has not shown himself to be a defensive issue at third.

 

Astudillo has shown himself to have marginal speed over distance while possessing fairly decent reactionary quickness over shorter spaces.

 

Marwin has years of experience in the OF.

 

Next question.. that I must raise again because of this deployment of resources.

 

If the team can option Cave to the minors (I'm OK with this) because Astudillo can cover a backup OF role. Couldn't they have taken the same approach before releasing Tyler Austin. Option Cave so Austin can play the backup OF role instead of releasing Austin?

 

I don't know if Austin can play the OF but the Giants are willing to try and I openly question how low of a defensive bar could Austin not clear if Astudillo is OK out there but Austin is not.

 

Those are just additional thoughts... the question is really... Why not Marwin in RF and La Tortuga at 3B?

He may not have shown himself to be a poor fielding 3B to you. But I think clearly he has shown exactly that to them. They seem very hesitant to play him there, even with Marwin incapable of buying a hit.

[Andrew Gebo]

First, regarding Austin, the Giants are in desperate needs of outfielders who can even semi-hit. They’ve also been using Brandon Belt out there. Both in LF and RF. He’s played there before but he’s subpar in the OF and primarily a first baseman, but i guess we can give him credit for trying.

 

So for the Giants it woulddn’t even had made sense to pick up Austin had they not intended to use him in the OF. Let this sink in, their Opening Day corner outfielders were Michael Reed and Connor Joe, both of which aren’t even on the 40 man roster anymore. So saying the Giants use Austin in the OF as a reason why the Twins should have done the same is apples to oranges.

 

Now, regarding the Twins and having La Tortuga in RF with Marwin at 3B, I think it’s a valid question. However, I think the reason for it is likely because they want to find out if he can play RF on a more semi regular basis. They know Marwin can, they don’t need to see him out there to feel comfortable putting him there. The same can’t really be said of Astudillo. Staring him out there against the Orioles with your ace on the bump is a very low risk move.

[jkcarew]

For those of you counting at home...today was Austin’s second start in the OF in the 16 games he’s spent with SF. Although to be fair, he’s only had four starts at 1B. Given the roster make-up (with Cruz), he had zero chance to survive with the Twins from the moment Cron was signed...unless of course he had massively outperformed Cron out of the gate...which he didn’t. Really wish he was getting more play with SF.

[Riverbrian]

 

He may not have shown himself to be a poor fielding 3B to you. But I think clearly he has shown exactly that to them. They seem very hesitant to play him there, even with Marwin incapable of buying a hit.

 

Why do you feel "Clearly". 

 

I clearly don't have that much clarity. 

 

Right now... If I had to guess... He looks exactly like a guy being utilized in a 1980's style utility role. His playing time has been equally divided up between C, 1B and 3B. Now that Cave is down in AAA... He has become the 4th OF. I'm still figuring out what we have in Astudillo and if I had to guess... the Twins are still trying to figure it out as well.  

[Riverbrian]

 

First, regarding Austin, the Giants are in desperate needs of outfielders who can even semi-hit. They’ve also been using Brandon Belt out there. Both in LF and RF. He’s played there before but he’s subpar in the OF and primarily a first baseman, but i guess we can give him credit for trying.

So for the Giants it woulddn’t even had made sense to pick up Austin had they not intended to use him in the OF. Let this sink in, their Opening Day corner outfielders were Michael Reed and Connor Joe, both of which aren’t even on the 40 man roster anymore. So saying the Giants use Austin in the OF as a reason why the Twins should have done the same is apples to oranges.

Now, regarding the Twins and having La Tortuga in RF with Marwin at 3B, I think it’s a valid question. However, I think the reason for it is likely because they want to find out if he can play RF on a more semi regular basis. They know Marwin can, they don’t need to see him out there to feel comfortable putting him there. The same can’t really be said of Astudillo. Staring him out there against the Orioles with your ace on the bump is a very low risk move.

 

I totally get the Giants situation... One of the worst opening day outfields I've ever seen. 

 

I only re-hashed Austin because... If Astudillo can be trusted to play OF... like he was Wednesday and Today. Is Austin going to be that much worse... or Astudillo that much better.

 

The point being... if they are willing to sacrifice defense in the OF for Astudillo... why was the same defensive sacrifice not an option for Austin?  But Yeah... I get the Giants situation. Zaidi has his work cut for him and so does the other guy running the Giants... Dave Gettleman. 

 

Great first post... Welcome to Twinsdaily!!! 

[Riverbrian]

 

For those of you counting at home...today was Austin’s second start in the OF in the 16 games he’s spent with SF. Although to be fair, he’s only had four starts at 1B. Given the roster make-up (with Cruz), he had zero chance to survive with the Twins from the moment Cron was signed...unless of course he had massively outperformed Cron out of the gate...which he didn’t. Really wish he was getting more play with SF.

 

Tyler has been facing left-handers almost exclusively and he hurt his elbow and the elbow is still bothering him which cost him some playing time.

 

I think it's way too soon in his career to make that decision. The Giants need hitters period and if keep him away from Right Handed pitchers... he will always need to be kept away from Right Handed pitchers. 

 

But... it's not my horse or rodeo anymore. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

Why do we care? If Astudillo is going to stick on the roster, he needs to play a bunch of positions.

 

And you let him play all those positions against Baltimore.

[jorgenswest]

I think Astudillo is better at any position in the field than Austin. He also has much more recent experience having played OF in the winter league.

 

Earlier this week we went to a three man bench. I don’t see how Austin could have been part of that mix.

[dougd]

I suspect that it primarily because of the shifts against the left-handed hitters. Willians seems perfectly adequate as a traditional third baseman, but I think the Twins are more comfortable with Marwin covering the entire left side of the infield. 

 

It is interesting the Astudillo played mostly LF and no RF in winter league. I imagine the Twins have some influence over his defensive position in winter league.

[Riverbrian]

 

Why do we care? If Astudillo is going to stick on the roster, he needs to play a bunch of positions.

 

And you let him play all those positions against Baltimore.

 

Not sure about "we" but the reason "I" care is:

 

1. A simple curiosity Why? 

2. The simple question:  Is this best defensive lineup if both are in the lineup? 

3. Is leaving Marwin at 3B the best use of Marwin? He was signed for multiple positions.

4. Is Astudillo a defensive compromise in the OF? I Don't know if he is but I'm assuming he won't be covering a bunch of ground. 

5. If Astudillo is a defensive compromise in the OF could they have compromised earlier. With other players. Free Agents like Matt Adams? Trades like Mancini or Castellanos? Hanging on to Tyler Austin or Lucas Duda? If they are willing to compromose defense to get Astudillo's bat into the lineup... couldn't they compromise to get Nelson Cruz's bat into the lineup against the Phillies and Mets in National League Parks. 

6. Is 3B so much more important than RF defensively?

7. Is Astudillo's 3B defense an issue?

8. Is Marwin as valuable playing only 3B compared to other postitions? 

9. Is this another example of players locking into a position in the name of consistency?  

 

 

I don't have a problem with Astudillo playing in the OF... I encourage it because flexiblity is helpful and increases player value. I'm just wondering why not Marwin instead and any of the 9 points above are hopefully worthy of discussion. 

[Mr. Brooks]

Why do you feel "Clearly".

 

I clearly don't have that much clarity.

 

Right now... If I had to guess... He looks exactly like a guy being utilized in a 1980's style utility role. His playing time has been equally divided up between C, 1B and 3B. Now that Cave is down in AAA... He has become the 4th OF. I'm still figuring out what we have in Astudillo and if I had to guess... the Twins are still trying to figure it out as well.

Because they have gotten zero production from third base.

If they thought the guy OPS'ing .840 was a competent defender there, it would be a no brainer to start him there everyday.

It's not like Marwin was signed to be the everyday 3B, so Astudillo doesn't have to overcome the "incumbent bias", and yet he still can't beat out Marwin.

 

I'm not saying they are right, just that, IMO, they clearly are avoiding exposing his glove at a position they are desperate for any offensive production at.

[Mr. Brooks]

Why do we care? If Astudillo is going to stick on the roster, he needs to play a bunch of positions.

 

And you let him play all those positions against Baltimore.

Because we have 3 outfielders who can hit. Our third baseman is an automatic out right now.

That's why I care. I won't tell anyone else they should care.

[Mr. Brooks]

I suspect that it primarily because of the shifts against the left-handed hitters. Willians seems perfectly adequate as a traditional third baseman, but I think the Twins are more comfortable with Marwin covering the entire left side of the infield.

 

It is interesting the Astudillo played mostly LF and no RF in winter league. I imagine the Twins have some influence over his defensive position in winter league.

Couldn't Astudillo be the guy that shifts to the right, with Polanco covering the left side?

[Riverbrian]

 

Because they have gotten zero production from third base.
If they thought the guy OPS'ing .840 was a competent defender there, it would be a no brainer to start him there everyday.
It's not like Marwin was signed to be the everyday 3B, so Astudillo doesn't have to overcome the "incumbent bias", and yet he still can't beat out Marwin.

I'm not saying they are right, just that, IMO, they clearly are avoiding exposing his glove at a position they are desperate for any offensive production at.

 

You have touched on something that I have been standing on the soapbox as against for quite some time now. The toleration of sub-par play from players who are not supposed to be sub-par. 

 

It is my opinion that teams (most teams) will tolerate sub-par play from players they have a different expectation from until they get the expected play. 

 

So the expected talent Marwin will be giving boat loads of playing time until he turns it around while the unexpected talent Astudillo will be put in the lineup occasionally and will only get every day privileges if a player is injured. In the meantime, the team will compromise itself because of the sub-par play at the position. 

 

In other words... it may be defensive as you suggest but it is also possible that they have picked a starting 9 before the season started and are sticking with it and not adjusting according to what is actually happening. 

 

If Astudillo is a defensive issue at 3B... Is it possible that he is not a defensive issue in RF. Right now... I'd say our lone current major issue in the every day lineup is 3B based on the current performance of Marwin. 

 

I have no problem with Astudillo in the OF if he get under flyballs and hit the cuts and I was 100% behind the signing of Marwin for his talent at multiple positions but he is starting awfully slow and Astudillo is producing so I'm wondering why Marwin isn't the guy moving around and wondering why Astudillo isn't getting more playing time at 3B. 

[jorgenswest]

I don’t know how to project Marwin going forward this week. I know I wouldn’t want my manager to make decisions on slash stats in this sample.

 

Reasons they might not be concerned from statcast.

 

He has had the best exit velocity of his career.

He has the best hard hit percentage of his career.

He barrels at 5.8% just above his career of 5.7%.

He is seeing more pitches per at bat than previous seasons.

 

The only change in the other direction is launch angle where his 7.4 is lower than his career 9.1.

 

It is early but his strike out and walk rates are at career norms. His swing and miss rate is at his career norm,

 

It doesn’t seem like anything in his batted ball profile should be driving a very low BABIP of .192.

 

Intellectually I don’t want my manager looking at a month of slash stats and using that data to determine a line up. By themselves they are not indicative of how a player will perform today. As a fan it is hard to ignore the OPS under .500 though.

[Riverbrian]

 

I don’t know how to project Marwin going forward this week. I know I wouldn’t want my manager to make decisions on slash stats in this sample.

Reasons they might not be concerned from statcast.

He has had the best exit velocity of his career.
He has the best hard hit percentage of his career.
He barrels at 5.8% just above his career of 5.7%.
He is seeing more pitches per at bat than previous seasons.

The only change in the other direction is launch angle where his 7.4 is lower than his career 9.1.

It is early but his strike out and walk rates are at career norms. His swing and miss rate is at his career norm,

It doesn’t seem like anything in his batted ball profile should be driving a very low BABIP of .192.

Intellectually I don’t want my manager looking at a month of slash stats and using that data to determine a line up. By themselves they are not indicative of how a player will perform today. As a fan it is hard to ignore the OPS under .500 though.

 

Thanks... that is good stuff. 

 

How do Astudillo's exit velocity, hard hit%, barrels compare with Marwin's?