Article: HOU 7, MIN 1: Foregone Conclusion

[h2oface]

I think Romero was misused this series and against Baltimore as the 26th Man. I get that they wanted "innngs eaten". Romero was used for 2 innings in each game. He pitched to three only 3 batters in the first inning (7th) he pitched of each game. I thought, as he came out for the second inning each time, and at the time, that this was a bad managerial move. Against Baltimore's 7-8-9 batters, he gave up a second pitch infield single (one that I thought Gonzalez could have come up with) that was part of the subsequent double play, and then another ground out. Against Houston, he pitched the 1-2-3 inning against Springer, Altuve, and Bregman! But the goal was to use him to eat innings, and not his development, I thought and think. If used for just 1 inning each time, he comes away with great confidence, and we all know how important that is. Instead, just the opposite. I think this was playing an ill-advised short game concerning Romero.

[Channing1964]

I don't necessarily disagree with this... but what would they have done different? They knew that the move was happening the day before. They got Stewart there on time. Not sure what the alternative was?

The point is This. They waited until Tuesday night After the loss to even announce the roster moves. IMO, this could have been done on Friday night in Baltimore even after the postponement was officially announced. Easily any one of them could have gotten from Rochester to Baltimore in time for the nightcap. We already know it doesnt matter who the pitcher was. It could have been whoever's turn it was to pitch. Last fall we have been already been force fed Stewart, Gonsalves, Littel, Vasquez, DeJong..etc etc..Moe, Larry and Curly. At every opportunity Falvine tells us how smart they are. So one of two things happened. Either they dont care about winning(which many fans already think), or they failed to see the better options available to them when unexpected situations arise. Many people see the same options I do. This was an amateur move. They owe it to us to do better. They gave this game away and i am mad about it. You shouldn't back a first year manager into a corner like that and base his evaluation on wins and losses. The FO CAN NOT drop the ball like this again. One game can make a big deal in October. If you dont think so then reference the 2018 Chicago Cubs.

 

[Channing1964]

Not sure what that would have done... It probably would have pushed Berrios back another day, to Sunday ,to pitch against the O's and then he wouldn't have pitched against the Astros this week or next week.

 

No thats not true Berrios would pitch Saturday, Perez Sunday, Gibson, Monday, Odorizzi Tuesday and Pineda Thursday. Berrios would be in line to face Baltimore Friday and Houston Wednesday at home. The AAA guy would have a way better chance to win in game two of a d.h. in Baltimore than against VERLANDER. I could have told you Verlander was on line to start last night 10 days ago. Edited April 25, 2019 by Channing1964

[Channing1964]

Verlander dislikes the Twins. This means,

 

1) He wouldn't come here willingly

2) If forced to come here he would lay an egg to get the heck out

 

And yeah, there is no way the Twins pay his contract amount anyway.

Im not disagreeing with you but when did you hear Verlander dislikes us? That is news to me. Where can i read more about this?

[Channing1964]

I don't necessarily disagree with this... but what would they have done different? They knew that the move was happening the day before. They got Stewart there on time. Not sure what the alternative was?

 

Thorpe to make his MLB debut in Houston? Littell a day before he was scheduled to start? Stewart was the one that lined up ,and again ,he has shown some promise at times and pitched well in Houston last year. The other option was a bullpen game.

Fine then who would have lined up to pitch game two of the doubleheader in Baltimore last Saturday night?

[Channing1964]

I don't necessarily disagree with this... but what would they have done different? They knew that the move was happening the day before. They got Stewart there on time. Not sure what the alternative was?

 

Thorpe to make his MLB debut in Houston? Littell a day before he was scheduled to start? Stewart was the one that lined up ,and again ,he has shown some promise at times and pitched well in Houston last year. The other option was a bullpen game.

Fine then who would have lined up to pitch game two of the doubleheader in Baltimore last Saturday night?

I'm also sure glad we hoodwinked Houston into taking Pressly off our hands, strengthening our AA rotation

Yes what a monumental coup that was. RP sure would look good in our bullpen about now.

[nokomismod]

Do others think that Stewart's realistic role on this team will be in the bullpen. He just has never demonstrated enough command or consistency for me to consider him as a future part of a decent rotation.

Looking back on Romero's first three or so starts last year, I remember him being dominant. Did mgmt give up on him as a starter too early?

[Channing1964]

You can judge an era based on 1 game?

I can and I will. If they make anymore ill prepared moves like this with their pitching staff i will add it to my long list of 2018 fu¢* ups and i will have plenty of evidence.

[Dakota15]

I agree in that I think Kohl Stewart's best chance at a major league contribution would be in the bullpen.   I'd like to see them take that gamble.  

[Channing1964]

It's nice that the Twins are relevant enough for people to wildly overreact to the results of a game and/or every managerial decision again.

 

Stewart was the logical guy to start, and had some success last year. And despite his poor command, he showed some flashes of how he could do that in MLB even last night, inducing some weak contact with that sinker. But he has to hit his spots to be successful and he couldn't do it last night and has struggled with it so far this season. He needs more work, but there's some interesting talent there.

 

It's not like this was an "abandon all hope" lineup; Astudillo is someone people clamoring to play more, so he got a start. And I'm totally on board with giving Buxton a day off against Verlander's slider. Heck, half of our hits came from the bottom three guys: the top 6 are the clear starters right now, so why not complain that Nelson Cruz left his boomstick at the hotel?

 

Gonzalez isn't hitting right now, but Seth is right: he's been making better contact lately and doesn't look like he's flailing at the plate. Moreover, he's been playing pretty excellent defense overall. (yes, he had the throwing error, but he's also the only guy on the team that would have been in a position to make that throw in the first place)

 

The reason it felt like a give up game is the offense produced 4 freakin' hits. Against Verlander, being down 4 runs can seem like 40. Let's come home and get well against Baltimore.

It was a white flag surrender, we are ill prepared, we arent in your league statement and i absolutely hate it.

[Mr. Brooks]

It's nice that the Twins are relevant enough for people to wildly overreact to the results of a game and/or every managerial decision again.

 

Stewart was the logical guy to start, and had some success last year. And despite his poor command, he showed some flashes of how he could do that in MLB even last night, inducing some weak contact with that sinker. But he has to hit his spots to be successful and he couldn't do it last night and has struggled with it so far this season. He needs more work, but there's some interesting talent there.

 

It's not like this was an "abandon all hope" lineup; Astudillo is someone people clamoring to play more, so he got a start. And I'm totally on board with giving Buxton a day off against Verlander's slider. Heck, half of our hits came from the bottom three guys: the top 6 are the clear starters right now, so why not complain that Nelson Cruz left his boomstick at the hotel?

 

Gonzalez isn't hitting right now, but Seth is right: he's been making better contact lately and doesn't look like he's flailing at the plate. Moreover, he's been playing pretty excellent defense overall. (yes, he had the throwing error, but he's also the only guy on the team that would have been in a position to make that throw in the first place)

 

The reason it felt like a give up game is the offense produced 4 freakin' hits. Against Verlander, being down 4 runs can seem like 40. Let's come home and get well against Baltimore.

What happens if they make the playoffs? Buxton never plays because they will be facing really good pitchers?

 

I don't have a problem with many decisions Baldelli has made.

 

I have a big problem with Buxton sitting the day before an off day.

[Mr. Brooks]

Verlander dislikes the Twins. This means,

 

1) He wouldn't come here willingly

2) If forced to come here he would lay an egg to get the heck out

 

And yeah, there is no way the Twins pay his contract amount anyway.

How would he be forced to come here? He had a no full trade clause. Which he wasn't waiving to come here.

[howieramone2]

 

I think Romero was misused this series and against Baltimore as the 26th Man. I get that they wanted "innngs eaten". Romero was used for 2 innings in each game. He pitched to three only 3 batters in the first inning (7th) he pitched of each game. I thought, as he came out for the second inning each time, and at the time, that this was a bad managerial move. Against Baltimore's 7-8-9 batters, he gave up a second pitch infield single (one that I thought Gonzalez could have come up with) that was part of the subsequent double play, and then another ground out. Against Houston, he pitched the 1-2-3 inning against Springer, Altuve, and Bregman! But the goal was to use him to eat innings, and not his development, I thought and think. If used for just 1 inning each time, he comes away with great confidence, and we all know how important that is. Instead, just the opposite. I think this was playing an ill-advised short game concerning Romero.

Romero was handled well, he just performed poorly. It happens.

[howieramone2]

 

I don't necessarily disagree with this... but what would they have done different? They knew that the move was happening the day before. They got Stewart there on time. Not sure what the alternative was?
The point is This. They waited until Tuesday night After the loss to even announce the roster moves. IMO, this could have been done on Friday night in Baltimore even after the postponement was officially announced. Easily any one of them could have gotten from Rochester to Baltimore in time for the nightcap. We already know it doesnt matter who the pitcher was. It could have been whoever's turn it was to pitch. Last fall we have been already been force fed Stewart, Gonsalves, Littel, Vasquez, DeJong..etc etc..Moe, Larry and Curly. At every opportunity Falvine tells us how smart they are. So one of two things happened. Either they dont care about winning(which many fans already think), or they failed to see the better options available to them when unexpected situations arise. Many people see the same options I do. This was an amateur move. They owe it to us to do better. They gave this game away and i am mad about it. You shouldn't back a first year manager into a corner like that and base his evaluation on wins and losses. The FO CAN NOT drop the ball like this again. One game can make a big deal in October. If you dont think so then reference the 2018 Chicago Cubs.
 

A lot can happen between Friday and Tuesday, that's why all teams usually wait until the last minute to make roster moves. I've been around the game long enough where I don't become unglued when we lose a game to one of the best pitchers in all of baseball.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

A lot can happen between Friday and Tuesday, that's why all teams usually wait until the last minute to make roster moves.

The forecast was clear for Saturday and Sunday in Baltimore, and Monday through Wednesday we were playing under a dome in Houston.

 

So as soon as the game was called last Friday, we knew we were going to be at least 1 starter short in the next 6 games. The only alternative to using a AAA starter in that time was having a bullpen game, which was pretty much an impossibility due to the pen's own rest/usage issues.

 

I'm certainly not surprised that we lost to Verlander, or 2 out of 3 in Houston in general, but I think it's fair to question whether we gave ourselves the best chance in that game/series. Reasonable people can differ in that judgement.

[AlwaysinModeration]

To me, they handled it perfectly. They put the worst pitcher in the toughest matchup of six games. They won 4 of the other 5, and predictably lost the mismatch.

 

Stewart might not have been the best AAA option (Littel, Thorpe, or even Brusdar), that is certainly debatable. But I think they chose the right game to start a AAA pitcher.

[Channing1964]

A lot can happen between Friday and Tuesday, that's why all teams usually wait until the last minute to make roster moves. I've been around the game long enough where I don't become unglued when we lose a game to one of the best pitchers in all of baseball.

yeah you're right. Its just that without checking Verlander's career numbers, I was not aware that seeing his name on the lineup card meant nobody has a chance to beat him. Now I am second guessing myself as to why we didn't just start Cave, Wade, and Andreoli in the outfield. Telis at catcher, Rosales at short, Cesar at third, Arriaz at second and Adrianza at first. Maybe we could have rushed Sano back to dh to get some real confidence boosting at bats. They all could have car pooled from Rochester to save money and the rest of the team could have come home a day early so they could have 2 days off instead of one. These games matter in the final standings. That hasn't changed and it never will. If a team wants to win, they have to want it ALL year. If they dont, then they stay "glued" and accept their butt whipping. (all sarcasm in this post is free of charge) To say "well we had no chance anyway" is just a cop out and making excuses for a losing mind set. Edited April 27, 2019 by Channing1964

[Channing1964]

To me, they handled it perfectly. They put the worst pitcher in the toughest matchup of six games. They won 4 of the other 5, and predictably lost the mismatch.

 

Stewart might not have been the best AAA option (Littel, Thorpe, or even Brusdar), that is certainly debatable. But I think they chose the right game to start a AAA pitcher.

Whichever pitcher it was makes no difference. If you are satisfied with a 4-2 road trip when you were 4-0 at one point then thats whats wrong with the entire debate. If you finish 87-75, and Cleveland finishes 88-74 you stay home. Every one of these games matter. Don't spout off about how well prepared you are and how well thought all your decisions are. Show us. This was a big "tank". Now im not tryin to say its intentional, but come on! Its April 25th!! You think it's all right, good for you. Check back when they lose 10 in a row. (and i hope that never happens.. Edited April 27, 2019 by Channing1964

[Otto von Ballpark]

To me, they handled it perfectly. They put the worst pitcher in the toughest matchup of six games. They won 4 of the other 5, and predictably lost the mismatch.

 

Stewart might not have been the best AAA option (Littel, Thorpe, or even Brusdar), that is certainly debatable. But I think they chose the right game to start a AAA pitcher.

First of all, the argument goes beyond starting pitchers. Buxton and Schoop inexplicably sat the Verlander day too, before an off day, while Adrianza started for the 3rd time in 5 days.

 

Second of all, I am not arguing that Baltimore was a pushover. Actually, I am arguing the opposite -- we could have improved our odds of winning vs Baltimore with a different 26th man addition than Romero. Namely, another starter, with Perez backing up in the pen that day and/or the next as needed, and I think we could have been better off (as it was, we almost lost one of the games or at least almost saw it go to extra innings with a depleted pen).

 

All that comes before the Verlander game.

[Channing1964]

Romero was handled well, he just performed poorly. It happens.

I totally agree, he should be on the roster and used for short bursts in low leverage situations for at least 30-40 innings IMO.

[Riverbrian]

I get that and yet, again, it's 20 games. Sometimes you have to just keep going out there to get out of a slump. He has been making much better contact the last week. I'm sure if he is struggling still in two months he won't play more than 2-3 days sa week.

In 2 Months...I’m not as sure as you that adjustments will be made with last year still fresh in my mind.

 

In the meantime... while the team is trying to play Marwin through the slump. Astudillo is not doing that.

 

This is a fundamental fatal mistake.

[Riverbrian]

Put Marwin into the role he was signed to play and play him as much as you like at positions across the diamond. His best skill flexibility is negated with a locked down assignment.

 

Astudillo should be your first choice at 3B for the moment.

 

This shouldn’t even be debatable.