2020 Presidential Election

[Craig Arko]

The truly sad part is that a huge number of people now think that's true.....

“No one in this world, so far as I know — and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me — has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby.” — H.L. Mencken

[Bark's Lounge]

 

I just hope we don’t all contract windmill cancer in the meantime.

I'm urging people to buy ear plugs.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I'm urging people to buy ear plugs.

 

anyone want to bet if some naturopaths aren't doing this now?

 

note: don't let some of my relatives see this post......

[Mike Sixel]

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/when-we-say-70-percent-it-really-means-70-percent/

 

re: polls and projections overall....

 

It’s just not true, though, that there have been an especially large number of upsets in politics relative to polls or forecasts (or at least not relative to FiveThirtyEight’s forecasts). In fact, there have been fewer upsets than our forecasts expected.

[Bark's Lounge]

 

anyone want to bet if some naturopaths aren't doing this now?

 

note: don't let some of my relatives see this post......

That's a losing bet..lol! I don't have the words to describe my reaction when Trump said that - I actually thought I heard it wrong at first. Like you said people now actually believe that... what a mess and weird time to be alive.

[PseudoSABR]

 

I don't know ... I have a hard time believing that internet interaction (social media, et al) creates empathy. If it does, I think it also creates ... well, the opposite of that, too. Human interaction has to be part of the equation. Real face to face human interaction. Isn't the difference today and years gone by is that more and more people rely on the computer and the internet today for everything, rather than actually going out and finding out what's new in life by talking to a neighbor, people at the grocery store, volunteering? I mean, even on public transportation, you get on the bus or train and you are greeted with hundreds of people with their heads down in their phones and no one bothering to look up. The people giving up their seats are elderly people giving them up for more elderly people, because the younger set (even including me in that younger set) have their noses glued to their phones. When I get on the bus I make a point to look people in the eye, nod at them, as I pass down the aisle toward an empty seat; I say hello to the person next to me if I do happen to get a seat ... before sticking my nose in a phone. That's where you start, imo. Nowadays you can completely ignore humanity if you choose ... you don't have go out in the public anymore. Sharing stories ... but how many stories that others post do you actually read? Or do you only read the stories that interest you or that come from sources you like? I think you read and post stories because you already have empathy. I just have a hard time believing that the internet ... nameless, faceless (well, mostly but not always) ... interaction is a way to develop that. A few of us do know one another, have even met, but mostly ... do we even know each other's real names, other than the 3 of us here who actually choose to use our real names? Otherwise, we are hiding ourselves ... and I do get why we do ... but how does that create empathy? Again ... I think you already have empathy which is why you care about the people you interact with here. And I think you try. But I don't think that will truly solve the empathy issue.

 

And now I've completely gone off topic. But these are things I think about when I actually try to look into the faces and eyes of the people I see and meet and cross paths with.

Sure, there's a downside.  But I think you're romanticizing the past in terms of social interaction in public spaces, and often the people that we talk to were indeed like us, at least geographically, economically, culturally. 

 

For instance, without the interwebs, none of us would know each other, and quite a few us know quite a bit about each other's lives that we would otherwise would not.  Maybe to everyone else we're all just a bunch of soulless avatars, but not to me.  When a poster hasn't posted for a while, I worry.  And I'd like to think the feeling is mutual. 

 

Sure, we spend too much time on our screens, but I think that has less to do with social media or even the internet, and more to do with that we have a computer in our pocket; it has do with technology not global communication.  That said, I understand where you are coming from.

[Badsmerf]

Tim Ryan in the house! Anybody who is anybody is entering this race now. The hottest new candidate is Beeep Bop.

[Squirrel]

 

Sure, there's a downside.  But I think you're romanticizing the past in terms of social interaction in public spaces, and often the people that we talk to were indeed like us, at least geographically, economically, culturally. 

 

For instance, without the interwebs, none of us would know each other, and quite a few us know quite a bit about each other's lives that we would otherwise would not.  Maybe to everyone else we're all just a bunch of soulless avatars, but not to me.  When a poster hasn't posted for a while, I worry.  And I'd like to think the feeling is mutual. 

 

Sure, we spend too much time on our screens, but I think that has less to do with social media or even the internet, and more to do with that we have a computer in our pocket; it has do with technology not global communication.  That said, I understand where you are coming from.

Like I said, I think what we have here is because of years we've been 'together' ... and because of the individuals involved making an effort. I don't think that's the same experience on other social media platforms over all. It's not so much romanticizing how things were, it's that I think we still need to make contact, no matter how small; real, human contact. Look up once in a while to say 'hi' to your seatmate on the bus, or a passerby on the street. Not that you have to carry on some deep conversation, but, well, just look around. I've told this story before, but it really was meaningful to me. I got on the bus, sat down, and smiled at the woman next to me and said hi, then checked my phone. A couple of blocks later she tapped me on the arm and told me I made her day, just for saying hi. That she had been on the bus for 40-some blocks and not one person said hi, or even looked her way or acknowledged her ... because we are all too quick to keep to ourselves and keep our noses in our phones. I'm not suggesting we make a new friend every time we ride the bus, or get into a conversation even ... but just acknowledge humanity once in a while. That is missing, quite a lot. When I walk down the street I'm looking to see who will make eye contact. It's really very few. I've been on a picket line every day for the last 25 days ... some of my colleagues pace back and forth holding their sign and looking at their phones. I've made an effort to actually talk to people. It's been really amazing. I took a vegemite poll from two guys from Seattle, had a conversation with a family from Minnesota when I noticed they were wearing sandals in the cold and they said they were Minnesotans, I talked to a guy who had a mutual interest in learning how to play the bagpipes, met an elderly woman who lived next door to Pablo Casals decades ago on Puerto Rico, talked to someone about our shared experience with pancreatitis, etc. Of course there were many that passed by, but I said hi to as many people as I could. But I think people WANT to tell their stories ... why not take a minute to listen? That's how empathy is built, imo.

[Mike Sixel]

Concur:

 

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/apr/05/joe-biden-democrats-2020-

[PseudoSABR]

I just don't social media and empathy in the real world are mutually exclusive.  I had breakfast at a counter today, and had conversations with people on either side of me.  I talk with people in grocery stores all the time.  Some of it is the culture of the place we are in.  Tucson, not unlike Minnesota, has a "Tucson-nice" thing.   And I think in big cities, for whatever reason, tend to be more insular.  

 

I think all kind of engagement in each other is important, whether online or not.  Real life matters more, but I think many of the people interacting online, wouldn't necessarily be interacting irl if the internet didn't exist.  I think a lot of anti-social people find a voice and make connections online that they simply wouldn't otherwise.  (I'm not one of those people).

[Squirrel]

Concur:

 

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/apr/05/joe-biden-democrats-2020-

Concur

[TheLeviathan]

 

Concur:

 

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/apr/05/joe-biden-democrats-2020-

 

I agree with the premise, I'm not 100% convinced of the solution.  I think, if he runs, he may get weeded out naturally.  But I still think there's a chance he is the best candidate to run to beat Trump.

 

However, I admit, that's given what we know now.  There is certainly room for the dynamics to shift to someone we aren't expecting right now.  And a lot can change in a short time.

 

Above and beyond Biden though, we should probably stop the demonization of being centric or independent.  That's not good for any of us.  One can have a perfectly consistent, educated, helpful set of policy positions without being hardcore left or hardcore right.  Merely not identifying as "progressive enough" or "conservative enough" should not be an insult.  The right has been playing this game for awhile to the detriment of all of us.  Hearing more of it from the left seriously concerns me.

[Vanimal46]

Biden wouldn't be as bad as Bernie. Same thing applies though. Go young... Call up the prospects.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Biden wouldn't be as bad as Bernie. Same thing applies though. Go young... Call up the prospects.

 

Just to play devil's advocate a bit....would it worry you that a prospect doesn't have the experience to deliver the goods?  If the Dems take the Presidency, there is a limited window ot get things accomplished (if at all with the Senate situation), so a newb to that level of government might be an issue.

 

I'd argue it has been (thankfully) the biggest impediment to Trump.  Might have been for Obama as well.  It's sorta the pro-Nancy argument we just had: there is an underestimated value of experience in government by the public.

[Mike Sixel]

I agree with the premise, I'm not 100% convinced of the solution. I think, if he runs, he may get weeded out naturally. But I still think there's a chance he is the best candidate to run to beat Trump.

 

However, I admit, that's given what we know now. There is certainly room for the dynamics to shift to someone we aren't expecting right now. And a lot can change in a short time.

 

Above and beyond Biden though, we should probably stop the demonization of being centric or independent. That's not good for any of us. One can have a perfectly consistent, educated, helpful set of policy positions without being hardcore left or hardcore right. Merely not identifying as "progressive enough" or "conservative enough" should not be an insult. The right has been playing this game for awhile to the detriment of all of us. Hearing more of it from the left seriously concerns me.

Two points

 

One, how do you think the right wins? Consistent messaging for one.

 

Two, Biden doesn't have a liberal bone in his body, far as I can tell. His only plus is he's not Trump, for me.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Two points

One, how do you think the right wins? Consistent messaging for one.

Two, Biden doesn't have a liberal bone in his body, far as I can tell. His only plus is he's not Trump, for me.

 

For sure on point one.  I think the easiest way for me to sum up how the right wins?  They do the things they accuse the left of doing.  Just way better.  (Like fear mongering, identity politics, etc.)

 

I'm not saying I love Joe Biden or his policies or his past policies.  What I will say is he seems like a genuinely decent person who means well.  He also, IMO, probably has a better shot of flipping Ohio or Michigan than, say, Kamala Harris or Bernie Sanders.  At the end of the day I want Republicans to lose and I'm keeping my options open on that.

[Mr. Brooks]

The NRA is suggesting that women are coming out against Biden as part of a conspiracy to take your guns away.

How anyone still takes this organization seriously is beyond me, they've gone full PETA over the last decade plus.

[Vanimal46]

Just to play devil's advocate a bit....would it worry you that a prospect doesn't have the experience to deliver the goods? If the Dems take the Presidency, there is a limited window ot get things accomplished (if at all with the Senate situation), so a newb to that level of government might be an issue.

 

I'd argue it has been (thankfully) the biggest impediment to Trump. Might have been for Obama as well. It's sorta the pro-Nancy argument we just had: there is an underestimated value of experience in government by the public.

Inexperience doesn't really bother me, as long as they build a good team around them. Whether it's politics or business, one person can only do so much without a good team of people.

[TheLeviathan]

Inexperience doesn't really bother me, as long as they build a good team around them. Whether it's politics or business, one person can only do so much without a good team of people.

True, but the Pelosi example should be something of a caution. Experience in that pivotal leadership position canmake a major difference.

[Bark's Lounge]

 

Inexperience doesn't really bother me, as long as they build a good team around them. Whether it's politics or business, one person can only do so much without a good team of people.

Hey Van. Long time no talk. I see that you despise Bernie as much as Trump... at least from what I have read and that is okay and your right. I'm not a Bernie guy myself, but I don't despise him. Bernie wants to utilize ideas from a time that benefitted Americans like FDR's New Deal. Trump wants us to go back to a time where woman didn't have a choice and knew their place and Christianity was the absolute way and there was no ifs, ands, or buts about it. Obviously we cannot go back in time and who the hell would want to? The way I look at it is we have a deadly poisonous snake in the backyard where our children play and we have a garden hoe or machete available to chop the snake's head off. Trump is the poisonous snake and the object to kill it is the democratic candidate. Bernie is no certainty, it's too early in the game to even get close to determining the Dem field outcome. I have seen a lot of folks on this site, who would probably usually vote Republican, and maybe you are one of them, but things have changed. This is not the America sensible people want to live in and I admit, I was very left, I have become much less left. I really feel the purpose in 2020 is to cut the poisonous snake's head off and if we have to recalibrate again... so be it. The back yard will probably always have it's problems. I just don't want what we have now. I respect your right to do what you feel is right to sleep at night and if Bernie is the candidate and you cannot pull the trigger - I get it. I only want the snake out of the backyard and my neighborhood. BTW - I am a Pete Buttigieg supporter.

[Vanimal46]

Hey Van. Long time no talk. I see that you despise Bernie as much as Trump... at least from what I have read and that is okay and your right. I'm not a Bernie guy myself, but I don't despise him. Bernie wants to utilize ideas from a time that benefitted Americans like FDR's New Deal. Trump wants us to go back to a time where woman didn't have a choice and knew their place and Christianity was the absolute way and there was no ifs, ands, or buts about it. Obviously we cannot go back in time and who the hell would want to? The way I look at it is we have a deadly poisonous snake in the backyard where our children play and we have a garden hoe or machete available to chop the snake's head off. Trump is the poisonous snake and the object to kill it is the democratic candidate. Bernie is no certainty, it's too early in the game to even get close to determining the Dem field outcome. I have seen a lot of folks on this site, who would probably usually vote Republican, and maybe you are one of them, but things have changed. This is not the America sensible people want to live in and I admit, I was very left, I have become much less left. I really feel the purpose in 2020 is to cut the poisonous snake's head off and if we have to recalibrate again... so be it. The back yard will probably always have it's problems. I just don't want what we have now. I respect your right to do what you feel is right to sleep at night and if Bernie is the candidate and you cannot pull the trigger - I get it. I only want the snake out of the backyard and my neighborhood. BTW - I am a Pete Buttigieg supporter.

Miss ya Bark. Glad you're around on this thread. You know I respect you and we go back years now. Pete Buttigieg is a step in the right direction. Probably a guy I could get behind. I just really don't want Bernie to win.

[Bark's Lounge]

 

Miss ya Bark. Glad you're around on this thread. You know I respect you and we go back years now. Pete Buttigieg is a step in the right direction. Probably a guy I could get behind. I just really don't want Bernie to win.

Miss you too Van. You've made that quite clear about Bernie...lol! And I respect that whole heartedly and your points are taken seriously my friend. To be honest Texas probably will go Trump, but you never know. The demographic is changing in TX, but I think we are probably 15-20 years away from that change. You are right. Bernie has his gangsters, just as Trump does. I guess it is a choice between the Bloods and the Crips. I hope it doesn't come down to Bernie v. Trump and it is probably best to table this debate until we are are much closer to the election. Check out Mayor Pete, he's the right guy I can firmly believe in. I have no faith in Gen Xers and the Baby Boomers. Christ, Biden and Bernie are too old to be in those demographics.... yikes! It's your generation I'm placing my bets on.

 

[PseudoSABR]

 

 You are right. Bernie has his gangsters, just as Trump does. I guess it is a choice between the Bloods and the Crips. 

Glad you guys are bro-ing out, but he's not right at all.  This false equivalency needs to be put to bed.  No Bernie supporter drove a car through people.  There's not any socialist out there committing mass murder.  Bernie isn't out there saying white supremacists are nice people to.  The comparison is shamefully inaccurate, so let's just stop.  

 

[Squirrel]

Glad you guys are bro-ing out, but he's not right at all.  This false equivalency needs to be put to bed.  No Bernie supporter drove a car through people.  There's not any socialist out there committing mass murder.  Bernie isn't out there saying white supremacists are nice people to.  The comparison is shamefully inaccurate, so let's just stop.

 

"While we don't know the names of the culprits, we know that the white power movement has been increasing and consolidating power across the South, across this nation, and globally," Highlander said. "Since 2016, the white power movement has become more visible, and we’ve seen that manifest in various ways, both subtle and overt."

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/white-power-symbol-found-after-fire-destroys-social-justice-center-n990271?fbclid=IwAR0jJs8J_49xS8108sw63-mWib7KNaMIdoiuNUYZQLH2X6J_4OXxqaq9ImU

 

Since 2016 ... that is significant and it is no coincidence. While I care who Trump’s opponent will be, whether it be Bernie, Biden or (hopefully) someone else, there is absolutely no question in my mind, I will vote for that person no matter what. There is no Democratic candidate, not one, who possesses the evil that Trump does, who incites and fuels such despicable acts of hatred and violence in this country. This above is just one of the more recent things, but we need to really start acknowledging the course we are on here and change it. Anyone but Trump.

[Craig Arko]

"These aren't people. These are animals."

- Donald J. Trump on people who ask for asylum

 

"The hottest places in hell are for those who in time of moral crisis preserve their neutrality."

- John F. Kennedy

[LaBombo]

 

"These aren't people. These are animals."
- Donald J. Trump on people who ask for asylum

 

 

Did Trump finally say this for real, or is this just a repeat of a year ago when he called dangerous criminals like the MS-13 beheaders "animals"?

 

Hey, I'm all for recycling. But genuinely toxic Trump comments are a renewable resource, so there's no need to go digging knockoffs out of the trash when a new one is probably about to be harvested.

[Craig Arko]

Did Trump finally say this for real, or is this just a repeat of a year ago when he called dangerous criminals like the MS-13 beheaders "animals"?

 

Hey, I'm all for recycling. But genuinely toxic Trump comments are a renewable resource, so there's no need to go digging knockoffs out of the trash when a new one is probably about to be harvested.

Judge for yourself.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-44148697/trump-immigrant-gangs-animals-not-people

[TheLeviathan]

 

Did Trump finally say this for real, or is this just a repeat of a year ago when he called dangerous criminals like the MS-13 beheaders "animals"?

 

Hey, I'm all for recycling. But genuinely toxic Trump comments are a renewable resource, so there's no need to go digging knockoffs out of the trash when a new one is probably about to be harvested.

 

Glad you asked this.  Trump is a despicable racist....but he clearly never said this about "asylum seekers"

 

He said plenty of other horrible, stupid ****.  I don't see the need to make things up.

[LaBombo]

 

Judge for yourself.

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-44148697/trump-immigrant-gangs-animals-not-people

 

"US President Donald Trump has said immigrant gang members are "not people" but "animals".

He was responding during a White House event to a point made by a California sheriff about the MS-13 gang, which was started in the 1980s by immigrants from Central America." - 17 May 2018.

 

So the old one that's not about asylum seekers. Slow news day in the Twitterverse, I guess.

[Craig Arko]

"US President Donald Trump has said immigrant gang members are "not people" but "animals".

He was responding during a White House event to a point made by a California sheriff about the MS-13 gang, which was started in the 1980s by immigrants from Central America." - 17 May 2018.

 

So the old one that's not about asylum seekers. Slow news day in the Twitterverse, I guess.

I guess everything is swell, then.