2020 Presidential Election

[PseudoSABR]

 

It may seem like an impossible climb, but I am all about Pete Buttigieg. I think the Gen Xer's and Baby boomers are a part of the problem. We have developed a strange despise for Millennials. Sure some of them are entitled, but name me a generation that didn't have it's problems. I like his ideas, I like his background, he is refreshing, and not part of the DC establishment... he speaks to me. BTW, I am a Gen Xer.

I like Buttigieg; he's very articulate, and he's young enough that I don't worry about any unseemly private interests.  That said, being a Mayor is a great deal different than President; I do wonder what kind of people he'd surround himself with.   I didn't really care for his take on college funding, but at least it was reasonable and grounded in values rather than how-do-you-pay-for-it.  

 

I'm ideal ticket these days might be Warren-Buttigieg, but that's evolving as we learn more about each candidate.

[PseudoSABR]

 

It shouldn't be there if I am understanding your post correct.

I'm pretty sure he was agreeing with you, but saying so with more disdain for the baby boomer's dislike of their own kids.

[Bark's Lounge]

 

I like Buttigieg; he's very articulate, and he's young enough that I don't worry about any unseemly private interests.  That said, being a Mayor is a great deal different than President; I do wonder what kind of people he'd surround himself with.   I didn't really care for his take on college funding, but at least it was reasonable and grounded in values rather than how-do-you-pay-for-it.  

 

I'm ideal ticket these days might be Warren-Buttigieg, but that's evolving as we learn more about each candidate.

I have my doubts about Warren's winnability... she has been in Trump's lost well of souls for a long time now, The Pocahontas crap, the lineage test. I think it hurts her if she goes up against that Cult of Personality moron. IMO.

 

[PseudoSABR]

 

I have my doubts about Warren's winnability... she has been in Trump's lost well of souls for a long time now, The Pocahontas crap, the lineage test. I think it hurts her if she goes up against that Cult of Personality moron. IMO.

Her claiming to be Native American isn't a good look, but I genuinely believe her that she (and her family) were proud of those roots, and she never benefited from those claims.  

 

I worry more about her Professorial elitism than I do about any insults thrown by Trump (which, really, only play to his base).   Why I like her is that she's being bold and specific in laying out policy.  Laying out lots of ideas about how to hold the uber-wealth and corporate powers responsible.  Even today, she wrote an op-ed arguing for more criminal liability for corporate officers which I am all for.  She also is passionate in a way that echoes Bernie, and I think she would experience similar enthusiasm.  

[TheLeviathan]

 

I have my doubts about Warren's winnability... she has been in Trump's lost well of souls for a long time now, The Pocahontas crap, the lineage test. I think it hurts her if she goes up against that Cult of Personality moron. IMO.

 

I think Warren is more effective in Congress.  I enjoy hearing her talk and I think she has a lot of great ideas, but I'm not sure a left-wing, coastal, college professor is the recipe for winning in 2020.

 

I'm also not sure how Joe Biden can be eaten alive for touching shoulders or Harris for being a prosecutor but Warren skates by with an act that is basically cultural appropriation.  How severe is debatable of course....but her whole situation with that seems like a far worse offense than others have been torn down for.  She may or may not have used it to her advantage, but that's not really the point.  It's bizarre.

[PseudoSABR]

 

I think Warren is more effective in Congress.  I enjoy hearing her talk and I think she has a lot of great ideas, but I'm not sure a left-wing, coastal, college professor is the recipe for winning in 2020.

 

I'm also not sure how Joe Biden can be eaten alive for touching shoulders or Harris for being a prosecutor but Warren skates by with an act that is basically cultural appropriation.  How severe is debatable of course....but her whole situation with that seems like a far worse offense than others have been torn down for.  She may or may not have used it to her advantage, but that's not really the point.  It's bizarre.

As I said, I don't give Warren a pass on her cultural appropriation, but Harris has actual victims of her prosecution, like Biden has victims of his inappropriate touching (although I posted his response video, I am not at all satisfied with it; his touching is f-ing weird).  Warren's harm is one of offense, which is real, but also one that isn't targeted to any one person.  (Also my mother's family supposed as roots like this, and she tells the story not as one of identity but as one that she's proud that her family took in a person who was different from them; so I can understand how this kind of claim isn't necessarily ill-willed or even about appropriation of identity really; but clearly Warren's acts go beyond my mother's).

 

And, this might be another personal take, but screw lawyers using prosecution as a launching pad for a political career, especially in the Democratic party. 

[ewen21]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/02/24/opinions/bernie-sanders-glaring-weakness-perry/index.html

CNN pretty much outlining my main beef with Sanders. He talks a mean game on policy but can't articulate how it gets done. Young "Occupy ------" leftists love him, but most of them just like that he's proposing free school and that he's from the hippy culture in Vermont.

 

I found Bernie commercials to be annoying. He was going to provide free admission to college by "taxing Wall Street speculation"

Real cute stuff. Now explain what the heck that is or go crawl under a rock somewhere

[TheLeviathan]

 

As I said, I don't give Warren a pass on her cultural appropriation, but Harris has actual victims of her prosecution, like Biden has victims of his inappropriate touching (although I posted his response video, I am not at all satisfied with it; his touching is f-ing weird).  Warren's harm is one of offense, which is real, but also one that isn't targeted to any one person.  (Also my mother's family supposed as roots like this, and she tells the story not as one of identity but as one that she's proud that her family took in a person who was different from them; so I can understand how this kind of claim isn't necessarily ill-willed or even about appropriation of identity really; but clearly Warren's acts go beyond my mother's).

 

And, this might be another personal take, but screw lawyers using prosecution as a launching pad for a political career, especially in the Democratic party. 

 

All that's fair, but she's skated away on that far too easily. 

 

Our system needs prosecutors, even if we reform it to be better.  That role, in and of itself, shouldn't disqualify anyone.  If the left's circling firing squad is going to turn in on everything like this, it damn sure should for Warren.  Or....just don't.....it's dumb.  Run to win and stop getting bent out of shape about everything.

[PseudoSABR]

 

All that's fair, but she's skated away on that far too easily. 

 

Our system needs prosecutors, even if we reform it to be better.  That role, in and of itself, shouldn't disqualify anyone.  If the left's circling firing squad is going to turn in on everything like this, it damn sure should for Warren.  Or....just don't.....it's dumb.  Run to win and stop getting bent out of shape about everything.

Sure, and there are good prosecutors out there who use their discretion and seek justice rather than mere conviction rates, but they are rare, and the institutional pressure is on the latter.  I want to know more about what Harris did in her role as AG to curb the prosecution of drug offenses etc.  Too many County Attorneys and Attorney Generals are running on conviction rates, even if they are Democrats, rather than reform, and I think that looks like a person who is operating with calculation rather than with values.

 

As for Warren, I agree she didn't receive enough backlash at the time she was claiming to be Native American, but I think she's  been pretty well put through the ringer these days.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I'm pretty sure he was agreeing with you, but saying so with more disdain for the baby boomer's dislike of their own kids.

 

Correct. It's not my bday, so I can type this now.,......

 

My generation, the boomers (I squeak in by a few months) is the worst. Look at what they've done to the world, look at their complete lack of empathy.....(as a voting block, and how they've perverted capitalism to ONLY be about greed).

 

We should look in the mirror before talking about our children at all.

 

And, FWIW, all the young people I know work very hard.

[Mr. Brooks]

Correct. It's not my bday, so I can type this now.,......

 

My generation, the boomers (I squeak in by a few months) is the worst. Look at what they've done to the world, look at their complete lack of empathy.....(as a voting block, and how they've perverted capitalism to ONLY be about greed).

 

We should look in the mirror before talking about our children at all.

 

And, FWIW, all the young people I know work very hard.

And, the data shows that young people today also smoke cigarettes less, drink less, experiment with drugs less, have unprotected sex less, and get divorced less than other generations have.

 

I do take issue with their seemingly thin skin- "safe spaces", fear of controversial speech, etc.

But, overall I agree they don't deserve the hate they get.

[Craig Arko]

Correct. It's not my bday, so I can type this now.,......

 

My generation, the boomers (I squeak in by a few months) is the worst. Look at what they've done to the world, look at their complete lack of empathy.....(as a voting block, and how they've perverted capitalism to ONLY be about greed).

 

We should look in the mirror before talking about our children at all.

 

And, FWIW, all the young people I know work very hard.

Self reflection is always worthwhile. Any notions about how we might act to improve the situation?

[Mike Sixel]

 

Self reflection is always worthwhile. Any notions about how we might act to improve the situation?

 

I don't know.....I've posted on these threads a few times that I just don't know how to fix the "empathy problem" as I've called it here and elsewhere. Studies show introducing less than ideal people to the people they hate one on one is the answer, but that's not practical as a societal fix, imo. So, I just don't know.

 

As long as we don't kill the world, I'm hopeful about the inevitable progress of humans.....but I'd prefer my children not suffer at the hands of their parents.....

[PseudoSABR]

I think what we are doing now, is a good start.  Having a conversation with respect for others ideas, is good start on the path to empathy.  

 

Oddly, I think social media has allowed millennials to be more empathetic than other generations, as they stay in touch with each other beyond leaving school, share stories with strangers etc.  Adult life prior to social media was one of isolation and involved interacting with those whom we are very much alike. 

[Squirrel]

 

I think what we are doing now, is a good start.  Having a conversation with respect for others ideas, is good start on the path to empathy.  

 

Oddly, I think social media has allowed millennials to be more empathetic than other generations, as they stay in touch with each other beyond leaving school, share stories with strangers etc.  Adult life prior to social media was one of isolation and involved interacting with those whom we are very much alike. 

I don't know ... I have a hard time believing that internet interaction (social media, et al) creates empathy. If it does, I think it also creates ... well, the opposite of that, too. Human interaction has to be part of the equation. Real face to face human interaction. Isn't the difference today and years gone by is that more and more people rely on the computer and the internet today for everything, rather than actually going out and finding out what's new in life by talking to a neighbor, people at the grocery store, volunteering? I mean, even on public transportation, you get on the bus or train and you are greeted with hundreds of people with their heads down in their phones and no one bothering to look up. The people giving up their seats are elderly people giving them up for more elderly people, because the younger set (even including me in that younger set) have their noses glued to their phones. When I get on the bus I make a point to look people in the eye, nod at them, as I pass down the aisle toward an empty seat; I say hello to the person next to me if I do happen to get a seat ... before sticking my nose in a phone. That's where you start, imo. Nowadays you can completely ignore humanity if you choose ... you don't have go out in the public anymore. Sharing stories ... but how many stories that others post do you actually read? Or do you only read the stories that interest you or that come from sources you like? I think you read and post stories because you already have empathy. I just have a hard time believing that the internet ... nameless, faceless (well, mostly but not always) ... interaction is a way to develop that. A few of us do know one another, have even met, but mostly ... do we even know each other's real names, other than the 3 of us here who actually choose to use our real names? Otherwise, we are hiding ourselves ... and I do get why we do ... but how does that create empathy? Again ... I think you already have empathy which is why you care about the people you interact with here. And I think you try. But I don't think that will truly solve the empathy issue.

 

And now I've completely gone off topic. But these are things I think about when I actually try to look into the faces and eyes of the people I see and meet and cross paths with.

[Vanimal46]

You'd rather have Trump than Bernie? I mean, if that is our choice? Because you might live in a state where your vote matters, unlike me. And lots of others whose vote doesn't matter.

This is a toss up I really hope we don't have to make.

[Vanimal46]

He doesn't lie. He isn't sexist, racist, etc. He isn't corrupt. He isn't owned by private interest.

 

Nearly all the candidates adopted policies he's championed in 2016.

 

The anti-Bernie hate is dumbfounding. That you dislike his supporters is one thing, but Bernie is certainly not Donald Trump of the left. That's just one of the most disingenuous and glib takes I've ever heard on this board.

Not sexist? https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/10/bernie-sanders-apologizes-for-sexual-harassment-in-2016-campaign.html

 

Similarities to Donald Trump:

 

Old man with crazy hair and a NY accent

 

Not releasing his tax returns? No problem! According to his followers.

 

Their style of presenting their beliefs: Both of them love to yell at you and any idea outside of their ideals is trash.

 

Both anti-establishment/anti-media.

 

Both have created an enemy for their base to hate: Trump's is immigration. Bernie is the "1%"

 

Both reminisce about the good old days of America that will not happen again.

[Vanimal46]

Let's go with anyone besides Bernie. That's all I ask.

[Squirrel]

 

This is a toss up I really hope we don't have to make.

I've stated my opinions of Bernie on here. I'm not a fan. And I've stated my reasons already so I don't want to get into that with anyone. However, I would never, ever not vote for him if the choice were him or Trump. Not ever. If I could say what I really think of Trump, the person and the president, I'd have to hide my own post. I don't know how it's even a toss up. Sure, you don't particularly like Bernie's policies, but you really think it's a toss up on who would represent the office and the country in a better, more respectful, humanly decent manner? And to not vote at all is a vote for Trump, imo.

 

 

[TheLeviathan]

I'm with Carole, I don't buy social media connectedness as an empathy builder.  It can be, it can also be the exact opposite of that.  Moreso than face to face interaction.

 

These connections are often superficial and I'm not sure you can build empathy through anything but a genuine relationship.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Sure, and there are good prosecutors out there who use their discretion and seek justice rather than mere conviction rates, but they are rare, and the institutional pressure is on the latter.  I want to know more about what Harris did in her role as AG to curb the prosecution of drug offenses etc.  Too many County Attorneys and Attorney Generals are running on conviction rates, even if they are Democrats, rather than reform, and I think that looks like a person who is operating with calculation rather than with values.

 

As for Warren, I agree she didn't receive enough backlash at the time she was claiming to be Native American, but I think she's  been pretty well put through the ringer these days.

 

Well, the right-wing put her through the ringer.  But their criticisms are about as valid as a toddler's.  Probably less so.  

 

I bristle at people getting upset about prosecution.  Too often the opinion people form of a prosecutor has more to do with the politics of the person than the actions of the prosecutors.  They want heavy handed prosecutors when it fits their politics and more empathetic ones when it doesn't.  So, by and large, this is a criticism I mostly ignore. 

[Vanimal46]

I've stated my opinions of Bernie on here. I'm not a fan. And I've stated my reasons already so I don't want to get into that with anyone. However, I would never, ever not vote for him if the choice were him or Trump. Not ever. If I could say what I really think of Trump, the person and the president, I'd have to hide my own post. I don't know how it's even a toss up. Sure, you don't particularly like Bernie's policies, but you really think it's a toss up on who would represent the office and the country in a better, more respectful, humanly decent manner? And to not vote at all is a vote for Trump, imo.

I would rather vote for whoever the Ralph Nader candidate is in 2020 than either one of them.

[ashbury]

Human interaction has to be part of the equation. Real face to face human interaction.

 

(I agree with what you're actually saying, of course.)

[Squirrel]

 

I would rather vote for whoever the Ralph Nader candidate is in 2020 than either one of them.

The Green Party candidate? It's a vote for Trump. Honestly, I get it ... I really do ... I've voted for people over the years I didn't like. And I hate making a 'lesser of two evils' kind of vote (although I don't believe that Bernie is the evil one here) ... but we have a two-party system. yeah, that's the flaw. And yeah, it's still within your rights to vote for whomever. But in a two-party system of voting, voting for a 3rd party candidate can actually elect the person you really like the least. Why do you think Bernie is as bad as Trump ... on all levels?

[Squirrel]

 

 

 

(I agree with what you're actually saying, of course.)

Ugh ... I really am not a fan of Biden's ... and haven't been since the Clarence Thomas hearings.

[Vanimal46]

The Green Party candidate? It's a vote for Trump. Honestly, I get it ... I really do ... I've voted for people over the years I didn't like. And I hate making a 'lesser of two evils' kind of vote (although I don't believe that Bernie is the evil one here) ... but we have a two-party system. yeah, that's the flaw. And yeah, it's still within your rights to vote for whomever. But in a two-party system of voting, voting for a 3rd party candidate can actually elect the person you really like the least. Why do you think Bernie is as bad as Trump ... on all levels?

Yes on all levels I think he is bad. I've seen and read Bernie Bros ravage people for not feeling the Bern... The perception of our country will not change with him in charge.

 

If this is really the best the Democratic party can do, after 4 years of planning, then the party needs to blow up and start over. I think there are YOUNGER, more charasmatic candidates to choose from than Bernie.

[Squirrel]

 

Yes on all levels I think he is bad. I've seen and read Bernie Bros ravage people for not feeling the Bern... The perception of our country will not change with him in charge.

If this is really the best the Democratic party can do, after 4 years of planning, then the party needs to blow up and start over. I think there are YOUNGER, more charasmatic candidates to choose from than Bernie.

Well, I do agree with you on the latter part of your statement, which is why I will put my hat into another ring throughout primary season. And yeah, the Bernie Bros are utterly obnoxious, but they aren't Bernie, either. But beware of labeling anyone who supports Bernie as that because most are not. And Bernie is not, either.

 

Still ... and we will have to part company at this fork in the road ... I will vote for him if he becomes the nominee because Trump is worse. And imo, far, far worse.

[Craig Arko]

I just hope we don’t all contract windmill cancer in the meantime.

[Vanimal46]

I too will be throwing my hat in the ring for other Democratic candidates during the primaries. I hope Bernie doesn't ruin other candidates along the way like he did in 2016. I'm just being honest saying I will not vote if it comes down to Bernie vs. Trump. If my non-vote is interpreted as a vote for Trump, *shrug*.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I just hope we don’t all contract windmill cancer in the meantime.

 

The truly sad part is that a huge number of people now think that's true.....