2020 Presidential Election

[ashbury]

Yeah Dems can get hurt in elections because some lefties get overly concerned with their own smug self-satisfaction.

 

We get regularly examples of your first sentence around here so that made me chuckle.

I truly don't understand the apparent need to pretend to get inside other people's heads to determine why they say what they do. (Plenty of other examples in these Sports Bar threads, some of them much worse lately, I'm responding to just this latest instance.)

 

Someone can prioritize things differently, or prefer a different approach to solving a given issue, or simply see the world with different eyes, without being smug, nor self-satisfied.

 

Going personal, even with some vague group of people rather than an individual, distracts from the discussion.

[one_eyed_jack]

 

I truly don't understand the apparent need to pretend to get inside other people's heads to determine why they say what they do. (Plenty of other examples in these Sports Bar threads, some of them much worse lately, I'm responding to just this latest instance.)

 

Someone can prioritize things differently, or prefer a different approach to solving a given issue, or simply see the world with different eyes, without being smug, nor self-satisfied.

 

Going personal, even with some vague group of people rather than an individual, distracts from the discussion.

 

It wasn't meant as an attack on anyone, and it wasn't a reference to anyone here.  I'm just sharing my observations of behaviors I've seen that I think are counterproductive and off-putting.

Certainly having different views doesn't one smug or self-satisfied.  I'm talking about the people who are so rabidly insistent on ideological purity that they take to lecturing and scolding people who agree with them on 95% of issues about the other 5%.

And I respectfully disagree that is "distracts from the discussion". We're talking about the 2020 election.  If it's something that may influence voters, that is the discussion.

 

[PseudoSABR]

 

It wasn't meant as an attack on anyone, and it wasn't a reference to anyone here.  I'm just sharing my observations of behaviors I've seen that I think are counterproductive and off-putting.

Certainly having different views doesn't one smug or self-satisfied.  I'm talking about the people who are so rabidly insistent on ideological purity that they take to lecturing and scolding people who agree with them on 95% of issues about the other 5%.

And I respectfully disagree that is "distracts from the discussion". We're talking about the 2020 election.  If it's something that may influence voters, that is the discussion.

Pretty sure you were only quoted to give context to Leviathan's comment.  What distracts from the discussion is Leviathan using your point to take potshots at fellow members.  

[TheLeviathan]

Pelosi's position as a power figure for Democrats is reassuring.  She gets it. 

 

Brand and fight intelligently. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

Pelosi's position as a power figure for Democrats is reassuring. She gets it.

 

Brand and fight intelligently.

I hated the idea of Pelosi as speaker again but she’s kinda killing it. She’s out to win, not posture.

[biggentleben]

Shaun puts together a very solid thread here...

https://twitter.com/shaunking/status/1127961645714759681

[PseudoSABR]

[Vanimal46]

[Mike Sixel]

 

 

hahahahahaha! Seriously? They haven't compromised since POTUS Clinton. Seriously. The thought that party cares about anything other than low taxes and government empowering white men is ridiculous.

[PseudoSABR]

 

hahahahahaha! Seriously? They haven't compromised since POTUS Clinton. Seriously. The thought that party cares about anything other than low taxes and government empowering white men is ridiculous.

Right. The GOP was all onboard compromising on Garland, ACA, etc. etc.

[gunnarthor]

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/05/14/joe-biden-2020-226872

 

Interesting read about Joe Biden's popularity in the Dem field.

[TheLeviathan]

 

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/05/14/joe-biden-2020-226872

 

Interesting read about Joe Biden's popularity in the Dem field.

 

We'll see if he can hold the position.  But when progressives/liberals dismissed him time and time again, told us all that his time has past, etc.

 

You sorta have to concede you read that wrong.  Maybe you'll still be ultimately be right, but so far that wing of the left has been very wrong about Biden.  Perhaps there is a deeper error at work than something as simple as "it's all name recognition".

 

I think there is, but we'll see what happens as the debates fire up.  I really like that comment in the article about how fear drives people to be risk-averse.  That is a very poignant observation.

[Mike Sixel]

Rip Roe. And people still won't vote.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Rip Roe. And people still won't vote.

 

I hear people argue it's a "state's rights" issue.  Screw that.  

 

If that's true let's make the same penalties for firing a gun in another state.  See how that holds up.  When people celebrate things like this for "their side" they are truly undermining the basic foundations of our Republic.  It's repulsive and it damn well better be a rallying cry the Dems beat over and over again.

[Mike Sixel]

Electoral College is wrong... It is state's rights over one vote per person..... As long as it exists, we'll have these problems.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Electoral College is wrong... It is state's rights over one vote per person..... As long as it exists, we'll have these problems.

 

That's some impressive gymnastics to pull the electoral college into that argument.....

 

Sorry, but that's not a particularly close issue to this one.

[Mike Sixel]

That's some impressive gymnastics to pull the electoral college into that argument.....

 

Sorry, but that's not a particularly close issue to this one.

Given who won the popular vote.... It totally caused this. And it is about states mattering, as if those are somehow important in a national election.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Given who won the popular vote.... It totally caused this. And it is about states mattering, as if those are somehow important in a national election.

 

The right has been working their way up to this kind of legislation for decades.  This is a long game plan that is evil, it really is.  But it is totally unrelated to the Electoral College.  

 

States rights are an important part of our Republic, but this isn't states rights.  Those citing that as their reason are bastardizing what that means to apply it here.  

[PseudoSABR]

 

Rip Roe. And people still won't vote.

The Alabama law, and even the Georgia law, are beyond the pale. I saw tweet earlier that even Billy Graham believed the Alabama law would be overturned. 

 

Outlawing abortion would entrench a class of poverty in perpetuity.  This is not about religion, it is class warfare.  

[PseudoSABR]

I think Biden's support among minorities will erode as it becomes more prominent his role in the 90s crime bill.  I see no reason to support the man, beyond Obama good feels and risk-aversion/cynicism.

 

Biden's establishment, deal-making history worries he may safe-guard certain constituencies prior to the primaries ala Clinton, exactly the kind of thing the Democratic party should resist after 2016.  

 

We make too much of the polls at this time, only the political junkies (like us) are paying attention, and only us are trying to thread the nuance.  When the debates, and esp. the primaries start, we'll see how the candidates actually stand among the voting public.

 

But please god not Biden. 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

 We make too much of the polls at this time, only the political junkies (like us) are paying attention, and only us are trying to thread the nuance.  When the debates, and esp. the primaries start, we'll see how the candidates actually stand among the voting public.

 

Agree. It’s too early. This time in 2015, Trump was still a joke candidate; this time in 2011, Rick Perry was going to enter the race and all the competition would scurry away like scared animals; and so on.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Agree. It’s too early. This time in 2015, Trump was still a joke candidate; this time in 2011, Rick Perry was going to enter the race and all the competition would scurry away like scared animals; and so on.

 

You are absolutely right, but that wasn't the point of the article.

 

Many further left people told us Biden was dead in the water now.  That was clearly wrong, so the question is.....why were they so wrong?  And is that mistake one that we should be wary of?

 

Perhaps he goes the way of Rick Perry.  Perhaps not.  But he's clearly relevant now and there is a large appetite for him as a candidate right now.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

You are absolutely right, but that wasn't the point of the article.

 

Many further left people told us Biden was dead in the water now.  That was clearly wrong, so the question is.....why were they so wrong?  And is that mistake one that we should be wary of?

 

Perhaps he goes the way of Rick Perry.  Perhaps not.  But he's clearly relevant now and there is a large appetite for him as a candidate right now.

I’m surprised, I will admit it. But I think a big part of the reason is what the other poster mentioned, that ordinary people aren’t paying attention and he has name recognition. Also, he is a candidate for the status quo and “reaching across the aisle.” That would appeal to a lot of general voters but maybe not the primaries.

[TheLeviathan]

 

I’m surprised, I will admit it. But I think a big part of the reason is what the other poster mentioned, that ordinary people aren’t paying attention and he has name recognition. Also, he is a candidate for the status quo and “reaching across the aisle.” That would appeal to a lot of general voters but maybe not the primaries.

 

The evidence being cited is primary voters, so that doesn't appear to be true.  That may change, but right now Democrat primary voters are in his camp.  

 

Also, I'd argue people are rarely paying close attention.  I'm not sure if an extra spotlight will matter, winning elections is more about speaking to what people really want.  And what many people seem to really want is a guarantee Trump loses.

[PseudoSABR]

[Craig Arko]

https://www.economist.com/united-states/2019/05/11/race-plays-an-ever-more-important-role-in-voting

[Squirrel]

 

The Alabama law, and even the Georgia law, are beyond the pale. I saw tweet earlier that even Billy Graham believed the Alabama law would be overturned. 

 

Outlawing abortion would entrench a class of poverty in perpetuity.  This is not about religion, it is class warfare.  

Class warfare? Yeah, partly. It's more than just that, though. There is a higher target than that in this war.

[PseudoSABR]

 

Class warfare? Yeah, partly. It's more than just that, though. There is a higher target than that in this war.

I didn't mean to suggest that at the exclusion of women; but the burden of being compelled to give birth will have such a outsized effect on poor women that will entrench them and their children in poverty.  That there's a war on women is absolutely implicit (to the point of obviousness) and essential to what I was saying.

[Squirrel]

 

I didn't mean to suggest that at the exclusion of women; but the burden of being compelled to give birth will have such a outsized effect on poor women that will entrench them and their children in poverty.  That there's a war on women is absolutely implicit (to the point of obviousness) and essential to what I was saying.

I think the answer is obvious. Long jail terms for any man who impregnates a woman unwantedly.

[TheLeviathan]

 

I think the answer is obvious. Long jail terms for any man who impregnates a woman unwantedly.

 

Sterilize everyone has always been my (only partly) tongue-in-cheek response.  License people to breed.  

 

We step ever closer!