Article: Report From The Fort: Marwin Gonzalez Fixes A Problem. (We Just Don't Know Which One Yet.)

[DocBauer]

I think John's headline pretty much says it all. You simply don't know who, when, if someone gets hurt or just has a poor season or stretch. Gonzalez is a great answer for that, as well as being a great fill-in all over the place if and when the roster is healthy.

 

It's also possible we are already seeing an example of this. I don't have any new information, but it was reported/conjectured elsewhere that Adrianza could be an early season DL candidate due to still recovering from the injury to his left shoulder and being limited to swinging from only one side.

[The Mask of Zoilo]

  On 2/23/2019 at 2:35 PM, Seth Stohs said:

Should be Astudillo if baseball is what's important (as opposed to keeping around a popular player). Adrianza gives them a real backup at SS.

 

Theres some smart baseball writers that think Astudillo's power surge last year was based on a swing change and is therefore real. And the fact that he tapped into that power while keeping his contact rate high is exciting. For what its worth ZiPS sees him as a 2 WAR player given 360 PA. Hes not a gimmick just because hes popular! Also Polanco is going to be a 150 game player so a real shortstop isn't necessarily unless he goes down. What are the chances Adrianza or Torreyes clear waivers?

[MikeW]

I like the signing. We don’t account for the missed games due to injury and illness, but they are inevitable. We also don’t take into account the jammed schedules resulting for primarily early season weather related rescheduling.

[AlwaysinModeration]

  On 2/23/2019 at 3:40 PM, MileHighTwinsFan said:

. . . And that’s a good thing. We know how many plate appearances Escobar got as the super utility player.

Yes, but do we know how many plate appearances Escobar got at Fogo de Chao?

[ashbury]

  On 2/24/2019 at 12:26 PM, AlwaysinModeration said:

Yes, but do we know how many plate appearances Escobar got at Fogo de Chao?

Churrasco silly question, chugetta silly answer.

[Aerodeliria]

I think he's nice to have around to give someone a day off now and then as well. Last year, there were a couple of times it would have been nice to give someone a rest, but the drop-off was steep, especially at the plate.

[AlwaysinModeration]

  On 2/24/2019 at 1:31 PM, ashbury said:

Churrasco silly question, chugetta silly answer.

The irony is that we assume Sano’s reduced plate appearances this offseason is going to lead to an increase in plate appearances this season.

[wabene]

  On 2/23/2019 at 6:17 PM, Doomtints said:

The Twins signed a good backup/utility player without putting star talent in any of the starting positions. Congrats?

DH?

[diehardtwinsfan]

  On 2/23/2019 at 4:47 PM, Dman said:

Yeah but Austudillo is the only player that has an elite skill, he doesn't strike out much. He puts the ball in play better than almost anyone in baseball. Also he has decent power (800 OPS) and his BA was pretty darn good last year. Granted all in a small sample size but he played well this winter too. I don't think it is popularity that keeps him around but his skill set.

 

So I'd argue the opposite of what you are. As a baseball decision he seems to be the best option out of all those guys to me.

 

I do agree first and third are really the only two positions he can play reasonably well defensively. Maybe catcher but the Twins don't seem to trust him much there. He is limited defensively but his offense has been really good so far. Find him a spot he can play and I think his ceiling is higher than any of the guys you listed.

and now we have them both...

 

I like Astrudillo, and I think he could play a key role on this team over the next few seasons, but he's got options... that's valuable as well. There's no doubt in my mind that he wont' get chances at some point this season, it just may not be on opening day.

[Dman]

 

  On 2/24/2019 at 8:10 PM, diehardtwinsfan said:

and now we have them both...

I like Astrudillo, and I think he could play a key role on this team over the next few seasons, but he's got options... that's valuable as well. There's no doubt in my mind that he wont' get chances at some point this season, it just may not be on opening day.

 

Maybe I misunderstood the question but just before Seths quote the thread was referencing who gets bumped off the 40 man.  I thought Adrianza was out of options.  Perhaps if he had referenced something it would have been more clear but I thought he was essentially saying cut loose Astudillo.  Just optioning him to the 40 man doesn't solve the problem unless of course Adrianza does have options then I guess I am just wrong all the way around.

[ashbury]

  On 2/24/2019 at 8:41 PM, Dman said:

Maybe I misunderstood the question but just before Seths quote the thread was referencing who gets bumped off the 40 man.  I thought Adrianza was out of options.  Perhaps if he had referenced something it would have been more clear but I thought he was essentially saying cut loose Astudillo.  Just optioning him to the 40 man doesn't solve the problem unless of course Adrianza does have options then I guess I am just wrong all the way around.

Minor league options matter when cutting down the 40-man list to the 25 active players who are available to play in a given regular season game. The option is exercised but the player stays on the 40-man.

 

If your 40-man is full and you want to add someone, as is our situation here, then someone needs to be either released, or else exposed to waiver claims before they can be assigned outright to the minors, or else traded (presumably for someone not on another team's 40-man).

[Dman]

 

  On 2/24/2019 at 8:46 PM, ashbury said:

Minor league options matter when cutting down the 40-man list to the 25 active players who are available to play in a given regular season game. The option is exercised but the player stays on the 40-man.

 

If your 40-man is full and you want to add someone, as is our situation here, then someone needs to be either released, or else exposed to waiver claims before they can be assigned outright to the minors, or else traded (presumably for someone not on another team's 40-man).

 

Right good point.  Someone has to go and my argument was I don't think it should be Austudillo.  I guess that still stands.  Not sure what Die Hard means then thinking we can keep them all.

[ashbury]

  On 2/24/2019 at 9:34 PM, Dman said:

Right good point.  Someone has to go and my argument was I don't think it should be Austudillo.  I guess that still stands.  Not sure what Die Hard means then thinking we can keep them all.

I don't believe anyone is advocating that Astudillo be the one removed from the 40-man roster, and thereby risk being lost, to make room for Marwin.

 

However, once the 40-man is back in balance, Astudillo is one of the choices to be sent to Rochester for the start of the season, because he does have minor league options remaining. (Jake Cave likewise, also Mitch Garver if you really like Astudillo behind the plate.) Because, at that point, you again have to deal with exposing another player to waiver claims, if you try to stash someone at Rochester but they don't have any remaining minor league options - a player has 3 for his career.

 

You might even send someone to Rochester who you like slightly better than a guy you bring north with the big club, because you can try out both if you do it that way, otherwise you are 100% committed to the one guy if you lose the other on waivers. It's an aspect of asset management by the front office.

 

Make sense?

[stringer bell]

 

  On 2/25/2019 at 12:08 AM, ashbury said:

I don't believe anyone is advocating that Astudillo be the one removed from the 40-man roster, and thereby risk being lost, to make room for Marwin.

 

However, once the 40-man is back in balance, Astudillo is one of the choices to be sent to Rochester for the start of the season, because he does have minor league options remaining. (Jake Cave likewise, also Mitch Garver if you really like Astudillo behind the plate.) Because, at that point, you again have to deal with exposing another player to waiver claims, if you try to stash someone at Rochester but they don't have any remaining minor league options - a player has 3 for his career.

 

You might even send someone to Rochester who you like slightly better than a guy you bring north with the big club, because you can try out both if you do it that way, otherwise you are 100% committed to the one guy if you lose the other on waivers. It's an aspect of asset management by the front office.

 

Make sense?

Absolutely Ash. All players are not equal when it comes to making the 25-man roster.Adding a player not on the 40-man would necessarily cost the team the services of the player they take off the 40-man roster. Players out of options like Austin, Adrianza, and Meija get the longest looks because they are likely lost if they don't make the 25-man squad going north.

[Dman]

 

  On 2/25/2019 at 12:08 AM, ashbury said:

I don't believe anyone is advocating that Astudillo be the one removed from the 40-man roster, and thereby risk being lost, to make room for Marwin.

 

However, once the 40-man is back in balance, Astudillo is one of the choices to be sent to Rochester for the start of the season, because he does have minor league options remaining. (Jake Cave likewise, also Mitch Garver if you really like Astudillo behind the plate.) Because, at that point, you again have to deal with exposing another player to waiver claims, if you try to stash someone at Rochester but they don't have any remaining minor league options - a player has 3 for his career.

 

You might even send someone to Rochester who you like slightly better than a guy you bring north with the big club, because you can try out both if you do it that way, otherwise you are 100% committed to the one guy if you lose the other on waivers. It's an aspect of asset management by the front office.

 

Make sense?

 

Thanks! Yeah I get that.  I guess I just misinterpreted what was being said.  I guess I don't really care where Austidillo starts whether in AAA or MLB.  Someone will get hurt eventually and he or one of the other guys can get called up.  

 

Will be interesting to see who they try and sneak through.

[Riverbrian]

Baseball has been putting players into boxes for decades. This is our SS, This is our LF, Starting Pitcher, Closer, Set Up, LOOGY. Utility player are guys who couldn't get a regular gig and so forth. 

 

It's been going on so long that... I'm sorry to those that this might offend but... Some(seemingly most) just can't see it because of an overwhelming need to place everyone into these same boxes. 

 

If teams can't acquire a player like Marwin... they need to create their own version immediately, not only do teams need one player like Marwin, they need two. If they have three of them... better still.  You can do it with players who hit much much better than Marwin does. Any thought that a utility player isn't allowed to be a hitter is just plain wrong. 

 

Also keep in mind, that as people say that Marwin provides insurance in case any of our players get hurt... Marwin could be the guy who gets hurt. Dear Twins, make more of these guys... please. 

 

Marwin might take our 21 million in go right into the tank but I'll applaud the signing now and I'll applaud the signing afterwards if he goes right into the tank. 

 

Signing a player like this is exactly the right direction this organization needs to go and needs to keep going with stopping. Players like Marwin allow you to sign players like Cruz and Cron. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Riverbrian]

 

  On 2/23/2019 at 10:45 PM, jorgenswest said:

His usage changed after the first half of 2018.

When Correia was out in August the manager was giving time to Bregman at SS. There was at least one game last August with both Correia and Altuve out where Gonzalez was not used in either spot. Instead Gurriel was at 2B, Bregman at SS and Davis at 3B with Gonzalez in LF. I find it very odd that Hinch would shuffle his infield around like this if Gonzalez was a capable SS. Davis could have played LF.

At SS Gonzalez had a UZR150 of -30.6 and an Rdrs/yr of -22. Those metrics can easily be dismissed due to sample. When coupled with his reduced use at SS starting in late July I think there is reason to wonder if SS is not a position that he can play at an adequate level.

This is a good signing at two years. It probably just doesn’t reduce the need for another SS on the team. I will be watching to see if Schoop gets any SS innings this spring.

 

If I was A.J. Hinch... 

 

I'd hate to lose Marwin in his Swiss army knife role.  

 

I would also never forget that Alex Bregman is a natural Shortstop no matter how many times he lined up at 3B with Correa playing SS. 

 

I would also have in my notes somewhere that Yuli Gurriel was a SS, 2B and 3B with the Cuban National Team before Astros team context forced him to 1B. With Altuve out, I would certainly take the opportunity to give Gurriel a look someplace that isn't normally available. 

 

I'd also be very happy to give Tyler White a chance to play 1B by moving Gurriel to a different position. 

 

Flexibility is a natural by-product of depth. If you have depth and yet you still ignore flexibility... then you no longer have depth because you killed it and did so willfully and for no practical reason. 

[Riverbrian]

 

  On 2/25/2019 at 2:19 AM, LA VIkes Fan said:

This is really a question that impacts the roster - can Gonzalez play SS as well as any other backup option?  If he can, bye, bye Adrianza and Torreyes, Rochester is beautiful in the summer. Their only chance to make the team is because the manager thinks we need a good fielding backup SS. I question that line of thinking since the backup SS doesn't play there much, won't with Polanco who will play 140-150 games absent injury, and a good glove can be stashed in AAA to cal lup if the starter gets hurt. Even so,I looked but I can't find stats that I can understnad to rank the 3 in the field at SS. I did read that Gonzalez and Adrianza were ranked next to each other in fielding but I don't remember the source or the context. I also remember reading that Torreyes is a poor fileding but good hitting SS, but again I don't remember where or contecxt. Does anybody have access to understandable stats on all 3 that go back at least 2 or 3 years? Just last year isn't a big enough sample for guys who don't play the position every day.   

 

https://www.mlb.com/video/hinch-altuve-on-marwin-gonzalez-c2522974983