Article: Twins Sign Left-Handed Pitcher Martin Perez

[howieramone2]

 

This move ranks right up there with the Matt Belisle addition.

Did you notice Perez is 10 years younger and left handed? Let's hope it's like the Belisle move of 2017. That was a big part of our making the play-offs. 

 

Is anyone keeping track of how many free agents in the history of this board membership has embraced? Cruz makes one right?

 

 

Edited January 22, 2019 by howieramone2

[Mike Sixel]

Did you notice Perez is 10 years younger and left handed? Let's hope it's like the Belisle move of 2017. That was a big part of our making the play-offs.

 

Is anyone keeping track of how many free agents in the history of this board membership has embraced? Cruz makes one right?

Lots of us liked the Castro move.

[SomeGuy]

Why are people so turned off by 3.5M?  We still don't know much about the actual deal yet since it has not been confirmed by the club yet.  It could be incentive laced, it could be something like 2.5 with a 1M buyout on next season, etc. 

 

All we have to go on is Jon Heyman's source saying the deal is worth approximately 3.5M.  Is that the maximum including all incentives and options exercised, or just 2019?  We don't know yet.

 

I'm assuming the interest in Perez lies in his curveball spin rate.  He ranked in the 74th percentile in 2018.  Astros were interested in him and they love that statistic.

[sweetmusicviola16]

Drew Pomeranz signs with the Giants for 1.5mil guaranteed, that is the kind of deal and player I would support.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Why are people so turned off by 3.5M?  We still don't know much about the actual deal yet since it has not been confirmed by the club yet.  It could be incentive laced, it could be something like 2.5 with a 1M buyout on next season, etc. 

 

All we have to go on is Jon Heyman's source saying the deal is worth approximately 3.5M.  Is that the maximum including all incentives and options exercised, or just 2019?  We don't know yet.

 

I'm assuming the interest in Perez lies in his curveball spin rate.  He ranked in the 74th percentile in 2018.  Astros were interested in him and they love that statistic.

It seems common knowledge that it is $3.5 mil guaranteed, not incentives. I don't think it particularly matters how much is salary vs buyout (presumably the higher the buyout, the higher the 2019 option cost).

 

I think people are objecting because $3.5 mil guaranteed buys the guy a roster spot for longer than a smaller amount or non-guaranteed deal, regardless of performance. Nick had a recent article, "Best Remaining No-Risk Starters on the Free Agent Market":

 

http://twinsdaily.com/topic/32037-article-best-remaining-no-risk-starters-on-the-free-agent-market/

 

$3.5 mil and a 25-man roster spot is more risk than those options, and it's not clear that Perez offers much if any more upside.

[SomeGuy]

 

It seems common knowledge that it is $3.5 mil guaranteed, not incentives. I don't think it particularly matters how much is salary vs buyout (presumably the higher the buyout, the higher the 2019 option cost).

 

I think people are objecting because $3.5 mil guaranteed buys the guy a roster spot for longer than a smaller amount or non-guaranteed deal, regardless of performance. Nick had a recent article, "Best Remaining No-Risk Starters on the Free Agent Market":

 

http://twinsdaily.com/topic/32037-article-best-remaining-no-risk-starters-on-the-free-agent-market/

 

$3.5 mil and a 25-man roster spot is more risk than those options, and it's not clear that Perez offers much if any more upside.

To over simplify the comment section of this website.  Fans are outraged that the front office hasn't maintained the record payroll of last year but at the same time they find a paltry amount like 3.5M an outrageous amount of money to spend on a 5th starter/bullpen piece.

 

As this article pointed out, it was also "common knowledge" (reported) that the Blake Parker deal was 3.2M but it turned out to be 1.8M+incentives.  Don't take it to the bank when an unnamed source throws out a figure preceded by the word approximately. 

Edited January 23, 2019 by SomeGuy

[Otto von Ballpark]

To over simplify the comment section of this website. Fans are outraged that the front office hasn't maintained the record payroll of last year but at the same time they find a paltry amount like 3.5M an outrageous amount of money to spend on a 5th starter/bullpen piece.

 

As this article pointed out, it was also "common knowledge" (reported) that the Blake Parker deal was 3.2M but it turned out to be 1.8M+incentives. Don't take it to the bank when an unnamed source throws out a figure preceded by the word approximately.

At least you are aware you are over-simplifying.

 

The fans that want the Twins to spend more don't *want* a guaranteed contract for another 5th starter / bullpen piece. You haven't caught anyone in a contradiction here. Those fans want to sign someone for the top of the rotation and the top of the bullpen, and guaranteed deals for guys like Perez and Parker do suggest that is less likely.

 

As far as the contract details, the Parker contract isn't exactly "incentives" but more like roster bonuses. It is kind of an unusual deal in baseball. I would be surprised to see the same structure in the Perez deal, both because of its rarity and simply because I don't think they'd bother with the reported 2020 option if there was that much concern about him even surviving the 2019 season. Could be incentives, though, but I would imagine those going higher than $3.5 mil.

 

In any case, unless the Perez contract is actually a minor league deal, its details certainly wouldn't invalidate most complaints about it here. Likewise, statements that support the signing aren't invalid either.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Why are people so turned off by 3.5M?  We still don't know much about the actual deal yet since it has not been confirmed by the club yet.  It could be incentive laced, it could be something like 2.5 with a 1M buyout on next season, etc. 

 

All we have to go on is Jon Heyman's source saying the deal is worth approximately 3.5M.  Is that the maximum including all incentives and options exercised, or just 2019?  We don't know yet.

 

I'm assuming the interest in Perez lies in his curveball spin rate.  He ranked in the 74th percentile in 2018.  Astros were interested in him and they love that statistic.

 

No one is concerned about the money, it's the roster spot. 

[SomeGuy]

 

No one is concerned about the money, it's the roster spot. 

Which still includes Duffey and Magill.....

 

 

 

"Drew Pomeranz signs with the Giants for 1.5mil guaranteed, that is the kind of deal and player I would support."

 

"Brian Duensing made $3.5 mil each of the last two years. Despite a nightmarish 2018, he still has a sub 4 career relief ERA and a career .625 OPS vs LHB.

Point being that is the type of pitcher one can get for $3.5 mil. I don’t see Perez as that good."

 

"$3.5 mil guaranteed seems steep for a guy who *might* become a second lefty out of the pen..." - Spycake

Edited January 23, 2019 by SomeGuy

[Mike Sixel]

 

Which still includes Duffey and Magill.....

 

Neither of which are starters.....I am ok, not thrilled, but ok if they think they can make him an effective reliever. But, IMO, given how many pitchers they have under contract past this year (Berrios and Mejia), they should not take up the fifth spot with a guy like this, with very little track record of success. IMO they need to learn about Mejia, Gonsalves, Stewart, Thorpe, etc this year, so they know how many gaping holes they have next year. I don't think this guy does anything other than block those players and decrease the Twins' knowledge. Hope to be wrong, obviously. 

Edited January 23, 2019 by Mike Sixel

[SomeGuy]

Neither of which are starters.....I am ok, not thrilled, but ok if they think they can make him an effective reliever. But, IMO, given how many pitchers they have under contract past this year (Berrios and Mejia), they should not take up the fifth spot with a guy like this, with very little track record of success. IMO they need to learn about Mejia, Gonsalves, Stewart, Thorpe, etc this year, so they know how many gaping holes they have next year. I don't think this guy does anything other than block those players and decrease the Twins' knowledge. Hope to be wrong, obviously.

And if none of those pitchers prove ready? Is Mejia healthy and staying that way? What about Pineda? Depth is a good thing especially one that you can move to the bullpen or cut all together if it doesnt work out.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

"$3.5 mil guaranteed seems steep for a guy who *might* become a second lefty out of the pen..." - Spycake

Discussing the money does not necessarily equal "concern" with the money as you are trying to portray. I was responding to a poster who said Perez might become the second lefty out of the pen. I said that would take away a lot of the perceived value of Perez's reported contract, as opposed to being a starter or a primary reliever.

 

If someone's point seems absurd to you (that spending $3.5 mil is "outrageous" when we want them to spend $30 mil more), please consider that you may be mistaken in your interpretation.

[sweetmusicviola16]

 

And if none of those pitchers prove ready? Is Mejia healthy and staying that way? What about Pineda? Depth is a good thing especially one that you can move to the bullpen or cut all together if it doesnt work out.

It would certainly be nice to find out if we have any organizational depth....

 

Which we don't find out unless these guys see more use. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

And if none of those pitchers prove ready? Is Mejia healthy and staying that way? What about Pineda? Depth is a good thing especially one that you can move to the bullpen or cut all together if it doesnt work out.

I agree that I'm not necessarily eager to rely on Mejia, etc. (Especially with Mejia's health late last season.)

 

But adding depth from the top is even better than adding depth you can cut. That's how adding a $3.5 mil pitcher might be more objectionable, to some, than adding a $20 mil one.

[Mike Sixel]

 

And if none of those pitchers prove ready? Is Mejia healthy and staying that way? What about Pineda? Depth is a good thing especially one that you can move to the bullpen or cut all together if it doesnt work out.

 

Prove ready in spring training? I hope they aren't deciding in the spring......Mejia is out of options, he's on the 25 man....

 

How will we know if they are ready if they aren't pitching in the majors?

Edited January 24, 2019 by Mike Sixel

[jorgenswest]

The money to Perez only matters if it impacts roster decisions. It should have been clear that Hughes was done early last spring yet he was rostered. It should have clear at the time they dropped Sanchez.

 

If Mejia is clearly the better pitcher and Moya is a better lefty option in the pen they need to be able to cut ties and take the loss. If the 3.5 million is enough to influence that decision it matters.

[Mr. Brooks]

The money to Perez only matters if it impacts roster decisions. It should have been clear that Hughes was done early last spring yet he was rostered. It should have clear at the time they dropped Sanchez.

 

If Mejia is clearly the better pitcher and Moya is a better lefty option in the pen they need to be able to cut ties and take the loss. If the 3.5 million is enough to influence that decision it matters.

Not to mention it was clear to everyone here that Logan Morrison didn't have it, yet there he was, occupying a roster spot and a starting job.

[SomeGuy]

It would certainly be nice to find out if we have any organizational depth....

 

Which we don't find out unless these guys see more use.

I support treating 2019 as a development year but didnt know so many others did. I also dont think Perez is going to block anyone. There will be an opening in the rotation at some point in 2019. Mejia, Perez, Gonzalez could all start in the bullpen too, we will have openings replaceable pieces in the bullpen.

[whatyouknowtwinsfan]

I think they see a LH Kyle Gibson. Took a look at his pitch percentages in comparison to pre-2018 Gibson. Like pre-2018 Gibson, his main pitch was 92 mph sinker. They both throw their changeup around 20% of the time. Additionally, they both have a breaking ball (curve for Perez, Slider for Gibson) that could be considered a swing and miss pitch if they used it in more appropriate situations. Just guessing......

[ewen21]

 

Is "meh" a "meh" enough response? Or should I slap my forehead, kick the dirt and say !@#$?

I would be elated if I never heard anyone say "meh", "random" or "literally" ever again.

[ashbury]

I would be elated if I never heard anyone say "meh", "random" or "literally" ever again.

[DocBauer]

I would be elated if I never heard anyone say "meh", "random" or "literally" ever again.

I get that. There are absolutely certain words that are used and over-used to the point where they not only become monotonous but grating. As a person with a writing background and large vocabulary, I can find it equally frustrating. Just the other day I used the word "shirk" and nobody I worked with knew the word . Maddening!

 

According to the Oxford English Dictionary, there are literally over 228,000 words in the English language, whether they be full, normal entries, obsolete words or words that are derivative in nature. Do over used words happen randomly? Or is a happenstance of culture? Meh, it is what it is.

 

At some point, these annoying words will begin to fade from normal, daily verbiage and will literally be replaced by other random words that probably mean the same thing. Until then, meh, so much more to worry about like the cost of a pound or hamburger or who closes for the Twins in 2019.

 

**: you knew it was coming, right?

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Why are people so turned off by 3.5M? We still don't know much about the actual deal yet since it has not been confirmed by the club yet. It could be incentive laced, it could be something like 2.5 with a 1M buyout on next season, etc.

 

All we have to go on is Jon Heyman's source saying the deal is worth approximately 3.5M. Is that the maximum including all incentives and options exercised, or just 2019? We don't know yet.

 

I'm assuming the interest in Perez lies in his curveball spin rate. He ranked in the 74th percentile in 2018. Astros were interested in him and they love that statistic.

it could be one dollar with 3.4999 m worth of incentives and I’d still be pissed. It’s not the money, it’s the rotation and roster spot. That spot could be used to improve the team or develop youngsters and probably both.

 

With Perez it’s neither.

[Mike Sixel]

DFA DeJong......that lasted about as long as their Rule V pickups....

[Danchat]

 

 

Twins signed LHP Martin Perez to a one-year, $4 million contract with a $7.5 million club option for 2020.

The deal, which was originally agreed to back on January 19, carries a $3.5 million salary for 2019 and a $500,000 buyout on the second-year option -- so $4 million guaranteed.

 

I still don't get this move, but I guess if you wanted the 5th rotation spot to be held by a veteran, there you go - have fun with that 6.22 ERA and 5.5 K/9. 

 

I guess the Twins will try to sneak De Jong to AAA, not sure if he'll make it. He wasn't much of a prospect, but I rather would have seen him throw innings than Perez.

[beckmt]

According to MLBtraderumors contract is $3.5 million plus incentives plus a 2020 option or .5 million buyout, so contract is actually $4 million plus.  Only thing going for it is the Perez is young and has maybe out of the Texas bandbox may pitch OK.  Or maybe the FO saw something.  If Perez is like last year this contract will be a waste of money, and with this money it will be harder to cut him early.

[beckmt]

Only other thing this contract has going for it, it makes it easier to trade a starter if Twins are overwhelmed with an offer for Gibson or Orderizzi. 

[SomeGuy]

 

it could be one dollar with 3.4999 m worth of incentives and I’d still be pissed. It’s not the money, it’s the rotation and roster spot. That spot could be used to improve the team or develop youngsters and probably both.

With Perez it’s neither.

His spot in the rotation is not guaranteed.  Neither is his roster spot since it is still only 4M if we decide to cut him. 

 

Are you saying there is no scenario where he improves the team?  His career ERA of 4.63 is pretty similar to Kyle Gibson's 4.47.  Perez is also 4 years younger than Gibson. His career ERA of 4.63 is better than the 2018 ERA from these players; Lance Lynn, Fernando Romero, Gabriel Moya, Alan Busenitz, Tyler Duffey, Ervin Santana, Stephen Gonzalvez, Matt Belisle, Zach Littel, Aaron Slegers, Phil Hughes, and John Curtiss.  No guarantee he pitches to a 4 something ERA (or better) but its not that unreasonable that he would.

 

I don't think its fair to say he blocks the development of a youngster when he himself is only 27 with room to develop.  He has a mid 90's fastball and one of the better curveball spin rates in MLB.  Not many of our youngsters have this skill set and experience.  There will be an opening in the rotation at some point this season for other youngsters, this is only a 1 year deal, this is only 4M.  I don't see any way this hampers our team.

Edited January 31, 2019 by SomeGuy

[big dog]

 

I get that. There are absolutely certain words that are used and over-used to the point where they not only become monotonous but grating. As a person with a writing background and large vocabulary, I can find it equally frustrating. Just the other day I used the word "shirk" and nobody I worked with knew the word . Maddening!

According to the Oxford English Dictionary, there are literally over 228,000 words in the English language, whether they be full, normal entries, obsolete words or words that are derivative in nature. Do over used words happen randomly? Or is a happenstance of culture? Meh, it is what it is.

At some point, these annoying words will begin to fade from normal, daily verbiage and will literally be replaced by other random words that probably mean the same thing. Until then, meh, so much more to worry about like the cost of a pound or hamburger or who closes for the Twins in 2019.

**: you knew it was coming, right?

The only thing I can add to this post is...whatever.

[Vanimal46]

His spot in the rotation is not guaranteed. Neither is his roster spot since it is still only 4M if we decide to cut him.

 

Are you saying there is no scenario where he improves the team? His career ERA of 4.63 is pretty similar to Kyle Gibson's 4.47. Perez is also 4 years younger than Gibson. His career ERA of 4.63 is better than the 2018 ERA from these players; Lance Lynn, Fernando Romero, Gabriel Moya, Alan Busenitz, Tyler Duffey, Ervin Santana, Stephen Gonzalvez, Matt Belisle, Zach Littel, Aaron Slegers, Phil Hughes, and John Curtiss. No guarantee he pitches to a 4 something ERA (or better) but its not that unreasonable that he would.

 

I don't think its fair to say he blocks the development of a youngster when he himself is only 27 with room to develop. He has a mid 90's fastball and one of the better curveball spin rates in MLB. Not many of our youngsters have this skill set and experience. There will be an opening in the rotation at some point this season for other youngsters, this is only a 1 year deal, this is only 4M. I don't see any way this hampers our team.

There's always one person every year on this team where we have this type of argument. "He's only making $3-5 million. They can cut bait quickly." In reality, that person always sticks around the club until July at least. They don't cut bait quickly on anyone making more than a couple of million.